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newbie question

Started by knowslittle, July 26, 2010, 06:18:22 PM

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knowslittle

  Picked up an Stihl 031 "electronic" in a garage sale (I understand it's from the late 1970's), and intend to use it for 14" plunge cuts into endgrain in Lodgepole Pine for 1/2" thick knife plates.
  I understand it's best to use either a chipper or semi-chisel chain for this operation.

  Is this info correct?

  Would a particular gauge chain be better suited than another?


  As you can tell this territory is new for me  and I appreciate any info you can offer.

Thank you in advance for your help.
Bob

Rocky_J

If somebody asks which size tires will work best on his pickup truck, you can't really answer without knowing what size wheels he has and what gearing the axles have.

You cannot swap chain sizes without also changing the bar and sprocket to match. All three work together and are sized to match. Your bar will tell you which gauge and pitch chain you need. If you replace the sprocket you need to match the pitch to the bar and chain.

Once you have determined which gauge and pitch chain you need, then you can choose between a couple different styles of cutter teeth. The fastest and most aggressive styles are also the most sensitive to proper sharpening, so less experienced users who tend to hit the dirt more often and are less adept at sharpening are better off sticking with the less aggressive chain because it will keep cutting longer when dull.

celliott

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but if you are going to use the saw strictly for plunge (bore) cuts, wouldnt a less agressive chain, maybe a low kickback safety chain, be best suited for this type of work? especially for someone not experienced with bore cuts. i'd think a lowkickback chain would be ideal, cutting speed isn't really a factor.
Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
Husqvarna and Jonsered pro saws
265rx clearing saw
Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

Al_Smith

You cannot plunge cut with so called safety chain .Because of the way the safety cutters are made,long depth gauges etc ,it prevents the cutter from making contact with the wood on the bar tip .

I can't personaly see why anyone would use a chainsaw to make a plunge cut into the end of pine log but then again it's not my story . ;)

celliott

Well thanks Al, guess I didn't know that.  Learn something new everyday, or try to at least.  This past weekend we had to replace some logs on our cabin, and used my dad's stihl to cut pieces of the logs out, and threw on the old green link safety chain it came with just in case we "found" a nail.  We did make some bore cuts, although not into the endgrain, and it did work, although very slowly and not without a fair amount of effort.
Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
Husqvarna and Jonsered pro saws
265rx clearing saw
Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

Sprucegum

Boring into end grain is a unique situation - I think you would be best served with a ripping chain because you are cutting with the grain rather than across it. Like RockJ says, the bar will tell you what size and gauge you can buy and your local dealer will know what ripping chain is. Its not usually found in box stores.

Warbird

Quote from: Al_Smith on July 27, 2010, 05:51:04 AM
I can't personaly see why anyone would use a chainsaw to make a plunge cut into the end of pine log but then again it's not my story . ;)

I was wondering the same thing.  Surely there is a better (safer) way to do what this gentleman is trying to do?

John Mc

I've used standard chisel chain to make bore cuts into the end of a pine 2x6 several occasions (I needed a chain saw scabbard that I could clamp on to my tractor). I had not trouble with it. If you know how to do a bore cut safely, boring in to the end of a pine log is not a big deal.

There are tools made to do what the OP is talking about however. I've seen them used at a timber frame company not far from me... I have no idea what they are called, however.

John
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Al_Smith

You have to keep in mine that there are several types of "safety chain ".

The ramped stuff will bore but not very well .The kind with a big long guard things will not at all .

I don't use the stuff myself but being somewhat of a collector I have loops of it hither and yon . Ha,I had the bright idea to grind the long guard gizmos off one chain .It still had the depth guages in addition to those things .Good grief talk about a grabby chain .Not a good plan at all . :D

knowslittle

  Thanks to all who replied. 

Recently I did half dozen such plunge cuts into the end of Lodgpole for the knife plates that anchor these posts down, and using a new semi-chisel chain and and 260 I borrowed, it went really well.

Now the situation is a bit more extreme.  I need to get deeper (14"-15") and bought a used Stihl 031, and as she needs a new bar/chain, can go for any option available to me.  So I thought I'd ask the resident wizards their advice.

   Guess what I'm asking, does anyone have any experience or preference regarding ptich and guage, for such plunge cutting operations?

  And yes, there are German tools that do just  exactly what I'm trying to accomplish, but at a cost of approx. $8000, and are really made to mount upon s4s materials, i.e. timbers.

Thanks again gentlemen,
Bo

John Mc

I can't imagine the gauge is going to make any difference at all. Just make sure the bar matches the chain for gauge. I'm guessing you do not want a narrow kerf bar and chain, since you're going for a 1/2" width. I've bore cut with both a .325 pitch and a 3/8 pitch chain, and both worked fine. The style of chain (seemed to make more difference to me than the pitch)

For me, chisel chain works better than semi-chisel for bore cuts, though I'll admit I've never tried semi-chisel boring into the end grain. It might be worth trying a loop of each and seeing which works better.

Are you free-handing the bore cuts on these, or did you make up some sort of jig to hold the saw square? How critical are the squareness and the dimensions?

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

knowslittle

On the original efforts I free handed it, but it wasn't critical.
  On these upcoming units I'll make a jig to get the best parallell cut and to the spec'd dimension.
Have a good idea of how to make the jig, but any ideas are appreciated.

  Any suggestions?

Thanks again,
bob

Al_Smith

Somebody on one of the forums did something similar on big thick timbers for some type architectual building project .I'm almost thinking it was on this forums but can't actually remember when it happened .

At any rate  if I recall correctly they made up a type of guide which fastened to the timber to hold the saw .

Although it would not fit on an 031 ,it would seem that a carving bar would work better on a situation like this .

John Mc

Quote from: Al_Smith on July 28, 2010, 05:51:26 AM
Somebody on one of the forums did something similar on big thick timbers for some type architectual building project .I'm almost thinking it was on this forums but can't actually remember when it happened .

This project sounded similar enough, that I had assumed the OP was the same person, just finally getting into the project.

QuoteAlthough it would not fit on an 031 ,it would seem that a carving bar would work better on a situation like this .

I've never used a carving bar, but doesn't one of those have a taper as you move down the bar towards the tip? If so, it might complicate things if he doesn't want a "V" shaped notch.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

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