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New Toy (Tool)

Started by YellowHammer, November 22, 2017, 09:48:09 PM

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YellowHammer

Not so much, but I will take occasional appointments because these are generally regular customers and only need a minimal amount of help.  Problem is, when people show up I have to shut things down because I'm the only employee here.  We are about to hit our peak season, so I have to spend a lot of time making sure we have enough wood to sell.  I tell people that I can't sell it if I don't have time to make it. ;D

I really like Saturdays, open the gates, and let folks flood in like a wave, and the only thing I have to do is help them.  We had a good Saturday this week and had 3 vehicles at the gate when I opened 30 minutes early.  We've had to hire two people to help us on Saturdays, a second cashier and a second yard man, so there are generally 4 of us required to keep up.  I spend a lot of my time in the shop, dressing freshly bought slabs with the Festool Track Saw, or using the SLR to edge people's 4/4 wood that they don't want to do on their table saw, and facing boards that they want to make into a table top.  Thats where these tools really pay off, customers can buy pieces of wood that they don't have the tools to take them to a digestible shape in their own shop.  So for example, I had a customer buy 4 rainbow poplar slabs for a big table ($150-$200 each) but he didn't have the equipment to strip the live edge off them and have the joints clean enough for a table quality glue joint.  So I cut the edges with the Tracksaw (slow but effective), faced the skip planed slabs on the SCM (one pass), and than ran them through the planer.  We put the edged pieces on the forks of the Cat for a flat surface, and they all slid together and the joints disappeared.  He was happy and it only took a few minutes for us to do it, he would have spent a day on it.
For typical 4/4 boards we charge by the bdft for both planing and straight lining.  Customers don't have to use our service, but its there if they want it.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

scsmith42

Quote from: DR_Buck on November 26, 2017, 10:31:43 AM

Question for you "WIDE" jointer guys.     Are you using these for facing and edging boards?     If for surface facing, how is this equipment better than a wide table planer?


A jointer is used to flatten a board, whereas a planer is used to dimension a board.  A planer will usually not flatten out a board; ie if you put a cupped or twisted board in you will get a cupped or twisted board out (albeit at the same thickness).

Most of the time I use my 25" Oliver jointer-planer.  It makes it fast and easy because it does both sides in one pass.  With my 16" jointer, I use a power feed on the outfeed table.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Peter Drouin

It can be hard to get things done when customers show up.
I have had days when I only cut one log. But, My pockets are full of $$$$$$. :D :D :D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

PA_Walnut

Those tools are PAINFUL expensive, but worth every penny. (I have a Felder version).
Being able to joint big stock is a boom to customers/woodworkers for sure.

Most mills I've seen, just jam it into an old piece of big iron, stripping off the material (mega tear out).

The spiral insert cutters are a near-necessity for figured material.

Nice score on a nice machine! Congrats!
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

YellowHammer

What do you guys do about the hub cap sized pork chop?  I've contacted SCM and they are looking for alternatives.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

SlowJoeCrow

Wow, awesome machine... being able to take that much off in one pass is impressive to say the least.

PA_Walnut

Felder uses a totally different version: it's a smaller version that covers the cutter and you adjust in/out according to the size material you're working with.
Works ok, but requires manual input.
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

Larry

I'm using a bridge guard (Euro guard).  I love it for edging as I can adjust it to put a little pressure against the board to hold it tight to the fence.  Took a long time to get used to it for facing and still not completely comfortable with it.  I think maybe because I used a porkchop most of my life.  My guard is the standard one (cheap) for a 12" jointer.  I would think with your 20" machine you would want one of the segmented styles.  Suva makes one I drool over.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

YellowHammer

I contacted SCM, they said the euro style guard satrts at $1,3000.  Ouch.  They've never seen the segmented pork chop, except for the video I sent them. 
I'll start looking aftermarket. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

PA_Walnut

Yep. I have the Euro style one and it's good, but I can't say that I like it more or less than the porkchop style on my older machine.

Felder got better when they made a segmented one. Otherwise, when it's retracted (set for wide material) it gets in your way, or your gut.
The Euro machines are precision and brilliant. It takes owning one to understand.

Congrats on yours, Yellow. It's a fine machine, indeed!  8)
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

woodworker9

Congratulations on a fine machine.

I, too, have a serious disdain for the porkchop guards on large jointers.  Hard to walk around without hitting your hip all day long.  Not too good for the lower back, either.

If you want to look at different guards, I have a Surty guard on my 16" jointer that can be adjusted to act like a bridge guard.  The board passes right under it without moving it.  Nothing to dodge.

Anyways, great machine, and congrats again.  Soon, you'll be wanting a 30" facer for those big slabs! :D
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

WDH

I need to load up a trailer load of slabs and visit you  ;D. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

YellowHammer

Heck yeah, road trip.  Come on up.

I'm still very impressed with the features on this jointer and don't understand why some weren't on my previous machine.  For example, the grooved machined tables seem to make a real difference in drag in the board.  My straight line rip saw has the same grooves, and its also obviously intended to reduce drag.  Why don't all the machines have this?  It seems simple enough to manufacture. 

Also, the Xylent cutter head is simply amazing.  I've had a small two knife butterhead on a Jet jointer, and also a Byrd copy on the Grizzly.  This one literally cuts a glass smooth finish, and it actually makes the boards a little difficult to grip, which seems ridiculous, but both my wife and I noticed it.

I also immediacy noticed the adjustment knob for the out feed table is small and hidden, and not stuck out in the open like my previous two jointers.  I never understood this, once I had them dialed in, I always had to tell people who used them, "Don't touch the outfeed knob".   This machines outfield adjustment is intentionally tucked out of sight and away from peoples hands.

Also, this is the first tool I have gotten that was completely adjusted when it came for the factory.  I went over the measurements and surprisingly didn't have to adjust anything.  What a refreshing experience.

When I bought the machine, I immediately received a letter from the SCM group in the US, with a complete list of names and points of contact, including a customer care representative who would answer any and all inquiries.  I have tested this when I asked for the newer guard, and I noticed the emails I sent were responded to immediately with information, or forwarded to others with information soon following.  What kind of a company are they running, where they actually seem to want to help customers after the sale?? 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

PA_Walnut

Quote from: YellowHammer on November 30, 2017, 07:53:46 AM
What kind of a company are they running, where they actually seem to want to help customers after the sale??

That is indeed, a rarity. Kudos to them!
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

customsawyer

That's one fine piece of equipment.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

YellowHammer

I finally decided to "fix" my pork chop.  I got tired on hitting it with my hip and having to lean over so far to get around it.  So I did a little surgery with a saw and cut the protruding edge.  This way I am protected for the narrower boards and I'm going to buy another pork chop for the wide ones. 





I am still amazed at how flat the machine faces boards.  A couple days ago, after stacking up a thousand bdft of kiln dried rough sawn walnut to send to the planer, we pulled the ugliest ones, i.e. ones with zig zag, warp, twist, cup, bow, ones we knew we were going to hand work when they came back.  So we decided to shortcut that, and face these cull boards while they are still at maximum thickness so I could take as much as possible off to try to correct them.  I wanted to see if it is reasonable to work them rough sawn, one cut and without an unreasonable amount of effort.  With my older jointer, I would have had to take three passes, two at the minimum, to get to max correctable cut before I couldn't plane the other side and get a 3/4" inch board.  So I set the SCMi machine for 3/16" depth of cut, and wanted to only make one pass to try to get a flat side.  We then went from the jointer directly into the planer, assembly line fashion, and stacked the boards.  We were both very surprised and impressed as to how flat the boards were, and can be sold as full length.  I still don't understand why it doesn't take much effort to take such deep cuts.  Its amazingly easy to push the boards while hogging.  Is it the new style cutter head?  Is it because its such a large diameter cutter?  Is it the grooved bed?  I don't know, but I did all these boards and my back didn't hurt.  You can see how flat they are laying on the cart.   


YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Peter Drouin

A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Dan_Shade

How about some more info on your cart?
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

muggs

I bought a cart just like it from Harbor Freight. Very handy 8)    Muggs

YellowHammer

Quote from: Dan_Shade on December 06, 2017, 06:54:44 PM
How about some more info on your cart?
Yeah, it's a HF hydraulic rolling lift table with the handle removed.  These types of lift carts are great for stacking and rolling around relatively large amounts of wood.  No more bending over, just reach down and grab a board off the stack in the cart.  When the stack goes down and you have to bend over, pump the hydraulic lever with your foot, and the whole stack comes back up where you want it. 
These are also great as height adjustable out feed tables for planers, table saws and our straight line rip. 
For this operation, we drove the pallet of wood into the shop next to the jointer infeed with the forklift.  The boards come off the forklift into the jointer and then fed directly into the planer by the jointer operator.  As the board comes out of the planer, another person gets the boards and inspects them and dresses the ends with the chop saw if necessary and then places them on the roller table.  When everything is done, the forklift is used to lift all the boards off the roller table and carry them to the shelves where they are stocked.  If the stack gets too high, hit the hydraulic release and the table drops down to a more comfortable position. 
These little roller tables are very useful.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

WDH

I use one at the outfeed of my planer for the thick heavy slabs.  Thru the planer, on to the hydraulic roller table, roll back around to front of planer for the next pass, etc.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

teakwood

Nice!

Know you just need a real planner to match the jointer! Something like this:
Just be prepared to dig deep in you wallet 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxM3o3pxtzc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu3Oscoun9U
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

PA_Walnut

My material goes to some Amish dudes (no joke) who have a jointer/planer combo...hitch is, that is does BOTH in one pass! Joints and then planes 2 sides. It's awesome.  :o

I have to look at the brand next time I'm there. It's mighty impressive no doubt, at like 30" wide.  :D
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

Don P

Sounds like an Oliver Strait-o-plane.
For a blast from the past, a facer, this is another way of face jointing lumber, scroll down the pics and notice the spring loaded fingers for the feed chain
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=27973

YellowHammer

Thankfully, I don't have to plane a lot of my wood.  I used to, but I was spending too much time planing.  So I cut a deal with a local mill work shop and now I carry a trailer load of of my kiln dried rough sawn wood to get planed most every week.



My wood gets run through three different types of machines.  One is an old Stratoplane and it does not take out long bow of 4/4 boards, which is critical for our customers.  Another is a nice Pinheiro multihead and it won't take long bow out of long boards, either.  I also get wood planed from a place that has a high end two sided planer, I'm not sure of the model and make, but it keeps 3 off bearers busy.  I have no idea how much to cost, but it must have been very high.  It does petty well, but I have the feeling it cost more than my house.  I pay each of these places a surfacing fee so I don't have to use my planer for bulk planing anymore, mostly for the smaller 1,000 bdft and under jobs.

Due to this out sourcing, I get a real good idea of the limitations of some of these machines, old and new. 

So as these loads come back planed to 15/16", and we stock the shelves, we pull these boards that have noticeable board length bow and generally have to hand work them to 3/4" to make them flat, if possible.  The long boards are flexible so I haven't seen anything yet that can feed the boards and not flex them down to the bed.

I highly considered one of these, but didn't see how this would be any better than what is being used already.



I almost bought one of these, an automatic facer, with a rubber fingered carpet to gently hold the wood, but, it s true import and service was going to be an issue.  Its a copy of an older facer, and I'd never seen one run to compare results.


YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

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