iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Mobile dimension 127 or 128?

Started by gms1911, January 10, 2018, 08:24:25 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

gms1911


Magicman

You are welcome.  Just trying to help.   :P
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

TKehl

Here's more details from yet another thread:

Quote from: StorminN on May 08, 2008, 06:27:45 PM
Hi cwk266,

Using the larger single edger blade, the 127 will cut a 7"x12" in one pass, and the 128 will cut an 8"x12" in one pass. That's the difference in name. However, the biggest difference between 127's and 128's is that most 128's are hydrostatic drive (I think only the first year or so of 128's were not?), the hydro drive makes the mills faster and easier for maintenance. The 127's use a belt drive system that has a lot of belts and bearings to adjust and maintain.

As far as using the mills goes, on a 127, once you set the speed of the carriage and send it into a cut, there is no way to slow the carriage for big knots or if you hit some sort of problem... all you can do is make the carriage return to you. On the hydrostatic 128's, the hydro drive is used to move the saw carriage down the track and back, you hold the control lever in your hand... so at any time you can speed up, slow down, stop and reverse the carriage. It's really nice. The later mills are also built more sturdy, are more stable, etc. and can handle higher production speeds.

If I were in the market for an MD mill, I would look for a hydrostatic 128. Once I had a particular mill in mind, I would check it out in person and take a dial caliper with me. Measure the width of the angle iron that the mill carriage rolls on... the bigger angle iron should be within a couple of thousandths of 1.500". If it is worn, that gives you an idea of how much the mill has been used. Then measure the rollers themselves... they should be only a couple of thousandths difference from the track... if not, you can buy undersized rollers from MD made to fit worn tracks. The fit of these rollers and the tolerances of these bearings really make a difference in how the mill cuts. Small or thin boards are pretty forgiving, but if you try to cut 4"x12"s or bigger on a mill with loose tolerances, the lead of the main blade will wander and you will see how hard it is to cut.

Other than that, just take a look at the overall wear on the mill... how to the rest of the bearings look, how does the motor look, how does it run? Does the track look bent in any spots? Is everything straight? Make sure you can cut some wood with it, see how it runs, see if it cuts smoothly or struggles in the cut.

Now, having said all this... if you found a screaming deal on an older 127, you might think about buying that, too. There are some things to look for... is it electric start? Does it have electric lift for the mill? Does it have endstands? Are they rack-and-pinion endstands? Each one of these things helps immensely, and some are more important than others.

Just so you know, I run an old belt-drive 127 with electric start, electric lift, and rack-and-pinion endstands...

-Norm.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=31304.0

As for future repairs, dealing with old "arn" has made me realize anything is repairable unless there are too many electronics.  Shafts can be weld built and turned.  Bushings can be oversized.  New parts cast and machined.  Etc.  Some fabrication and machining knowledge sure helps keep the costs in line though. 

But factory support is still a big plus!
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

DanG

I'm sorry the answers so far have been inadequate. There are very few people who are familiar with both versions of MD mills. Other than the belt drive/hydrostatic difference, there is a power difference, and I'm not sure at what point in history the changes were made. Early versions had the old 40 hp 1600cc VW engine. My 1988 model 128 has the 1835cc 67 hp engine. These engines are heavily modified by MD, with the most radical mod being the addition of a large thrust bearing at the business end of the extended crankshaft. Most internal parts are standard VW, and most external parts seem to be a mish-mash of other gear. Some things are made by MD and others came from elsewhere. The starter on mine belongs on a Datsun truck, for example.  My opinion is that you should hold out for a 128 as you will be much happier with it.  Try to locate the newest mill you can afford with the most bells and whistles.  Be willing to travel to fetch a better mill.  The trailer mounted 128 pulls very nicely with a half-ton pickup.  For further info, call MD and speak with Ron. He is the owner and inventor and is very open to sharing his knowledge. ;)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Chop Shop

When I was looking for a MD, most of the 127s I looked at were owned by folks that had later bought a 128.

I was told by every person I talked to to buy the 128 if I was serious about cutting lumber.

The old 127 has a narrower carriage track, making it more prone to being loose/wobbly and not as stable as the later version.

Most 127s have a crank/rope system to adjust the side to side/board thickness.  The 128 has a gear driven/rack system that is much nicer.

Most 127s are the 1600 engine. Almost half as much power as a 128.

Most 127s have a magnito and no distributor.  Most are started with a pull rope.

The 127 is not fully controllable, you send it off and hope all goes well.   The 128 is variable speed and controlled from the operators station.

The 127s are usually on an owner built trailer or none at all.  Some are nice, most are cobbled together old camp trailers frames or mobile home concoctions.

Now keep in mind this is all a guideline as people have been swapping/modding/converting things for decades on those old wore out 127s.  You may find one that has an alternator and starter but not standard stuff thats been cobbled on by who knows who.  Side adjusting racks conversions have been done lots of time too.


These mils get USED.  So the old ones most times were bought and USED and USED and USED.

I weighed all the options and decided to find a nice newer low hour 128 thats completely loaded.   Be prepared to pay up, expect to travel, and dont dilly dally.  They sell quickly.


gms1911

It appears that I clicked on the link and then posted my response in a different post.


That's more of what I was wanting. Thanks everyone. I think I found my mill. I've seen pics and now a video of it running. And cutting. Next is a deposit to hold it until the weather gets a little better. Then either a plane flight and rent a truck check it out good. Spend some time with the seller getting to know the mill, haul it home 15 hrs or drive up and do all that. Thanks again. I'll take some dial calipers with me. I'll keep y'all informed with a follow up after I look at

starmac

Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

sawmill_john

Howdy! DanG.  So Chop Shop you got most of your description of the MDS history fairly correct, there are lots of reto fit electric start kits out there on model 12's and 127's, and not all 127's were rope starts, and all the 128's have that option, although if your not careful, they kick like a mule.  Not all 128's were hydrostatic drive.  We even converted some 127's to the hydrostatic drive.  I will agree that if you are going to run a custom sawing business, find a 128 hydrostatic drive mill.  A lot of the parts are readily available at auto parts stores, but you should lean toward the better quality items. I spent 22 years working at Mobile mfg, for packing up starter kits to designing the saw mounted sharpener, and traveling around to demo at logging shows, I had a mill for about ten years, loved it just couldn't justify letting it sit around most of the time. The biggest piece of advice I can give you is, keep the teeth sharp and belts tight, don't over grease the bearings, and have fun!

DanG

"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

cwk266

I can not give you a comparison between the 2 mills but I can talk to some of the upgrades I made to my 127 that made a difference  and some of the things that could have been better.I added the metal frame because I used it stationary money well spent.I upgraded to a rack and pinion setup for the side to side movement and it made a big difference to get more accurate cuts.Cranking the mill up and down by hand was ok if you were looking for a alternative to going to the gym to work out.Pull starting the engine being a 140lbs soaking wet and living in a cooler part of the world could be a challenge.I used the mill mostly for my own wood needs not commercially and for that it worked well.I cut enough wood to pay for the mill and all the upgrades and then cut lots of wood for my own use at home and then sold it for more than I paid.Overall I was happy with 127 it served my purposes well and as a bonus I had a lot of fun making sawdust with it which has to count for something.Getting a 127 is not a mistake and the folks at the factory were a plus

trooperTdiesel

the 127 stands for a max cut of 7.25"x12.25" 
128 means a max cut of 8.25"x12.25"

"all" MD mills have belts from the engine to the blades.
gas or electric.

there are 3 gas VW engine displacments over the years.
1835 it is 1835cc
1700 real displacment-1650cc~
1600 real displacment-1580cc~
around 1990/1995 mabe sooner the 1600 was done away with.
early on in the 70s and earlyer, there was no 1835 engine.


127s where made with a mechanical drive set up, flip a lever it goes down the track hits a return block or you have the string trip and comes back and you had better be ready as theres no stopping it.
or in the last few years mid 80s the hyd drive.

the 128s where all hyd drive as far as i know, unless theres some odd ball in the mid 80s thats still mechanical.
its like a hyd unet off a riding lawn mower you can start/stop it at any time, far safer and cost affecteve.
the other big change was how the lumber got pushed back, there was 2 main types, a swing gate and a up down gate on a cable and mabe a half breed that wasent made very long.
theres also a early hyd that had a funny long shaft off the drive of the gov, theres very few of them.

both mills in narrow 124 set up or model 12 as the comp calls it, cut up to a 4.25"x12.25" with the moving eger.
the 127 moves the main blade 3" and the 128 moves the main blade over 4"s
the moving eger is not used when it set up for the larger cut as theres no way of putting the larger blade on the moving eger.
changeing from narrow to wide or the other way, takes me around 2 hours ish. my first time was the better part of the day.

with a spacer a 128 mill can be set up as a 127
i know i have the spacer, and all the 3" long parts and 17.5 127 blade.
so when we have a order for tons of 6x6s it will reduce the stress a smige on the main blade bearings. 

and theres allways the chance of running in to a model 12.......the main blade shaft does not have the extra lenth to go to a 127 or 8 it will ONLY CUT A MAX of a 4x12
if you want to pith ron off, you ask about converting a model 12 to a 127 or 8 thats NO joke........



very few people know this but....
less then 10 where made, there are just a few 129 mills out there. there all on narrow track. 
all i got out of Ron was somthing about a custom orderd mill going to Hawaii state????????????
the last big 129 eger blade was in the blade room it was around 21.5"
no MD other then a 129 uses that size. all the other blades are the same as a 128.
as well as a shelf of all the spacer parts for moving the main blade over 5"
im gessing to much vibrating/jumping with the narrow track, pulled the plug on the idea.


im thinking it was the pre curser to the wide track that started sales around year 2000\2004ish. there all 128s
other then the electric MEGAs there a model 1210 they cut wood so fast, its flat scary! 8s for a wide open round trip cutting a 16' 1"x6" board. :o :o
many Garrett 15s
have a 128 5'x10'x30' MD mill.
as well as worked at Mobile MFG CO in troutdale, OR for the last 1.5 years before doors closed.
you say David Wallace to Ron H, he will know me....lol
2 JD 440 loaders, B7100 tractor, 3 350 J\D dozers 
and many fords and isuzus

starmac

The inventor of the mobile deminsional also built another mill. A smaller version that had an onan engine on it. I forget the name, but saw one at an auction. I didn't stay to see what it sold for, as it was in bad shape.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

trooperTdiesel

timber champ, is the name.
.
i think its a max 4"x8" cut mabe a 4x10 or around there.
onan quit making the engine or his supplyer no longer could get it, something along those lines.
many Garrett 15s
have a 128 5'x10'x30' MD mill.
as well as worked at Mobile MFG CO in troutdale, OR for the last 1.5 years before doors closed.
you say David Wallace to Ron H, he will know me....lol
2 JD 440 loaders, B7100 tractor, 3 350 J\D dozers 
and many fords and isuzus

starmac

I think it was timber champ, the story I got was the original founder built just a few of them, basically in his garage after he was no longer in control of Mobile Deminsional.
The story I read was that he wanted and built them lighter and smaller, so they would be easier to pack into remote locations.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

oakiemac

I have a 128 that I used as a mobile mill when I first started out. It doesn't have the winch arrangement but is on the factory trailer. I'd only do jobs if the land owner had a tractor or loader of some sort.
The mill is permanently under a saw shed. I haven't moved it in years. I don't understand the one comment about it taking 8 hours to setup. Mine only took about 20 minutes.
 
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

DanG

Trooper, do you know what became of the parts inventory when Mobile shut down? Are they available at all?
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Irish Logger

Hi guys, I am being offered a MD from a friend of mine who has done very little with it 124hrs to be exact, it's about 15 years old but in very good condition, does anyone have an idea of what it's worth. I will send pics, cheers

Thank You Sponsors!