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Brace Layout Question and Answers

Started by Jim_Rogers, June 22, 2004, 01:51:34 PM

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Jim_Rogers

What I mean to say is that they may not be flush with the inside face. I would measure in a consistent distance on both the posts and the beam to ensure that the mortises match. And you may have a wider housing if the timber is oversized much.

Jim Rogers


 
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

ziggy

Got it. This is off topic, but how are you enclosing the gable ends on the frame in the image you shared? Or will they remain open.

Thanks for the quick replies Jim.

Jim_Rogers

I didn't finish off the screen porch; the customer did. So I don't know what he did without asking him to send me a completed picture.
sorry about that.
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

TimFromNB

Jim,
About the 1/8th extra thickness you add to braces. I assume you pair down that inner face to 4 inches to get a tight fit? My braces are up to 1/8" under nominal 4" . This will leave a gap in the mortise. Should I layout my mortises at 3 7/8"? I could lay out a 2" mortise 1 7/8" from the reference face?

Thanks,
Tim

IMERC

Jim,
Thanks for all the information and your time and effort to write this all up...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish.... Here fishy fishy....

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: TimFromNB on July 12, 2018, 09:16:57 PM
Jim,
About the 1/8th extra thickness you add to braces. I assume you pair down that inner face to 4 inches to get a tight fit? My braces are up to 1/8" under nominal 4" . This will leave a gap in the mortise. Should I layout my mortises at 3 7/8"? I could lay out a 2" mortise 1 7/8" from the reference face?

Thanks,
Tim
Tim:
Yes, I hand plane down the inner face, the face that is flush with the tenon to make the tenon 2" thick.
QuoteMy braces are up to 1/8" under nominal 4"
This is exactly why I mill my brace stock over sized.
I would not do a 1 7/8" mortise, I'd still cut it two inch and shim the gap with something that won't show. Your tenon offset has to be 2" off the outside face, so the shim goes on the inside but trim it back so it doesn't show in the mortise.
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

TimFromNB

Hi Jim,

Thank you, appreciate the help! Too bad I didn't read this before milling ;D

Will the gap cause any structural problems or is it just aesthetic?

Tim

Jim_Rogers

Brace strength is in compression. So the missing 1/8" shouldn't be a problem.
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Roger Nair

There is another option.  Survey the brace material for minimum width.  Lets say it is 3 3/4".  So maintain the 2 plus 2 system, use a 2 inch mortise and tenon with a housing that extends toward the center of the post 1 3/4" beyond the mortise.  Reduce the brace with a 3 3/4" gain at the joint to account for irregularity.  The advantage here is that the outside mortise line becomes reference, the brace becomes fully mortised, no shimming to keep tight m+t and no shrinkage gaps will appear.  Plus centered braces have to my eye a more pleasing appearance.
An optimist believes this is the best of all possible worlds, the pessimist fears that the optimist is correct.--James Branch Cabell

MishaZ

Alright, brining this amazing thread back to life!

I have decided to do my first timber build out of S4S timber to reduce the risk of some of the unknown.

Now that I'm laying out my dimensions, I see that a lot of books I'm reading and post are around rough timber with full dimensions.  The inner timber...

My question is when I am working with S4S timber, should I still go with 1/2" pocket? 

I decided to do 6x6 posts (5-1/2" x 5-1/2"), 6x8 beams (5-1/2" x 7-1/2") and 4x6 braces (3-1/2" x 5-1/2") all in cypress as I'm in FL.  It is all green.

With my post being 5-1/2" wide and having two braces terminate in to it on two sides at 90, my other question is about length of the tenon.  Most books have them at 3", it obviously would not work as they would be too long.  What are some good rules when it comes to the tenon length.

Jim_Rogers

Usually, two braces joining on post at 90 degrees angles are at different elevations. This prevents the issue you are having.
However, in your case, you need to figure out which one bears the most weight and make that one the long one.
Or trim both equally.
Braces strengths are in compression. So, the more bearing surface at the shoulder and bearing end are the important factors to consider.

Even if all timbers are S4S the joint still can be/could be housed to 1/2" under. And tenons have to be figured for those details.

Good luck with your decision.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

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