Custom sawing

[Stick]

What is a good for both you and the customer to do custom sawing.

[drobertson]

I reckon make some money and make a happy custermor

[Chuck White]

If I'm reading your question correctly, I'd say, giving the customer the size(s) they want, and getting paid will make both parties happy.

[Stick]

is it better to charge by the board foot or by the day? I have never sold any lumber or done any work other than for myself? I dont want to charge to much and I dont want to loose money ether.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Stick...on logs larger than 8 inches and up on the small end and a minimum of 8 foot and up in length......charge by the board foot.
Anything smaller....by the hour. Just take your time and you'll learn your speed pretty quick. Just try not to saw to fast, you'll get smooooother lumber. 

[Nomad]

Stick...on logs larger than 8 inches and up on the small end and a minimum of 8 foot and up in length......charge by the board foot.
Anything smaller....by the hour. Just take your time and you'll learn your speed pretty quick. Just try not to saw to fast, you'll get smooooother lumber. 

     Even at that, it's a double edge sword.  Are you supplying the labor force?  If you depend on the customer and he's supplying the help, you could find yourself behind the 8 ball if you're sawing by the BF.  Just something to consider.  If you're supplying the labor, you need to adjust your prices accordingly.

[Peter Drouin]

Stick...on logs larger than 8 inches and up on the small end and a minimum of 8 foot and up in length......charge by the board foot.
Anything smaller....by the hour. Just take your time and you'll learn your speed pretty quick. Just try not to saw to fast, you'll get smooooother lumber. 

8" small end, by the bf , not sawing fast,  no money in that.
12" and bigger small end. When you cut wood for some years you will find how fast you can cut with your mill and have nice lumber and not junk. The trick is to find the line of making good lumber or bad, And cut right up to it. ;D

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Still not enough info Stick......are you stationary or traveling with your mill?

I am stationary and I charge by the board foot when customers bring me their logs. I am solo...well....just me and my backhoe.....and I am making good money. 
A lot of different ways to accomplish the same results......this works for me.

[4x4American]

Lots of good advice above.  I have one thing to add:
if they want quarter sawed material, go by the hour for that.

[drobertson]

the way I see it, there are two ways, maybe more to look at it.  And it really boils down to supply and demand.  You have to dig in and see what is what in your area for what you can produce, and how folks will respond to what you have to offer.  It all takes time and experience to work out. There are bumps in the road, and there are nice spells as well.  I'm not sure still if there is a formula that fits all sizes,  I'm sure if you have sawn for yourself you will certainly figure out how to deliver for others, and make a profit at the same time, 

[barbender]

I would saw strictly by the hour if customers would pay for it, I don't think our local market would support that though. Thus, I charge by the board foot. Whatever way Poston does it, I would do it that way. He still has year old uncashed checks in his wallet, there's no arguing with that ;) ;D

[Peter Drouin]

I would saw strictly by the hour if customers would pay for it, I don't think our local market would support that though. Thus, I charge by the board foot. Whatever way Poston does it, I would do it that way. He still has year old uncashed checks in his wallet, there's no arguing with that ;) ;D

Try buying your own land and build all the buildings, start a business and have only yourself and your wits to do it. And make a living with only the mill paying the bills.You will see you don't have uncash checks in your wallet.   Piston and a lot of guys here have the big avantiges with the family farm and a regler job that pays the bills.
I mean no Disrespect to the guys with the farms.
I just want barbender to know making a living with a mill and start with nothing is a lot of work. And not everyone makes it

[tule peak timber]

I would saw strictly by the hour if customers would pay for it, I don't think our local market would support that though. Thus, I charge by the board foot. Whatever way Poston does it, I would do it that way. He still has year old uncashed checks in his wallet, there's no arguing with that ;) ;D

Try buying your own land and build all the buildings, start a business and have only yourself and your wits to do it. And make a living with only the mill paying the bills.You will see you don't have uncash checks in your wallet.   Piston and a lot of guys here have the big avantiges with the family farm and a regler job that pays the bills.
I mean no Disrespect to the guys with the farms.
I just want barbender to know making a living with a mill and start with nothing is a lot of work. And not everyone makes it

Ahmen to to Peter's statement !

[red oaks lumber]

 
if i won the lottery i could farm and mill wood longer till it was all gone :D :D
seriously, i believe to make it custom sawing or anything you need to be completely open minded and willing to try just about anything. knowing sometimes you dont make money ,just breaking even is a good day but,you still made a customer satisfied and he will spread the word which at the end of the day thats what will put beans in your soup.(old saying)

[barbender]

Peter, my comment is a light hearted jab at Poston. I have a ton of respect for you guys that make a living with a mill paying all the bills. I would love to do it myself, but I'm not sure I've got what it takes, to be honest. So I have my mill mostly for hobby use for myself, and I hope I can sell an occasional $300 slab like Poston ;) I'll keep my job out running forwarder for the security of paying the bills and providing for the family. As long as I have the mill, I'll keep dreaming.

[tule peak timber]

Yesterday , Saturday I spent 5 hours with two different customers on 1 slab and 2 boards to make a sale. Cut the boards , S4S them , supply finishing information and a 90 minute walk around the log yard......On the slab, champagne taste on a beer budget, and I actually had to GIVE him a can of finishing oil for free to close the deal. lots of my energy to generate cash flow to say the least. Today more customers will chew up the only day left before the start of the work week tomorrow.The sawmill business is tough to say the least and if you want to make a go of it there is never ending sacrifice in building , making payments, buying equipment, trying to keep the marriage together, etc, etc. Then again ....No way could I work for anyone !  >:( :( 8) ??? : :P :-[ :-\

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

[quote author=Peter Drouin link=topic=77580.msg1177834#msg1177834 date=1410096789

Try buying your own land and build all the buildings, start a business and have only yourself and your wits to do it. And make a living with only the mill paying the bills.You will see you don't have uncash checks in your wallet.   Piston and a lot of guys here have the big avantiges with the family farm and a regler job that pays the bills.
I mean no Disrespect to the guys with the farms.
I just want barbender to know making a living with a mill and start with nothing is a lot of work. And not everyone makes it
[/quote]

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This is a very good point Peter. Some make it and some don't.
Milling is not what I do for a living and if I thought I had to mill for a living ...I might rethink my line of work.
My REAL job is with the Forest Service, Farming and 2 mobile homes I rent. My LT40 started out as a hobby and to just saw for a few friends. It blew up and now I have lots of friends.  :D
I actually saw about 5 hours a day combined with moving logs, bucking, loading a trailer, unloading logs, shaking hands and talking with customers, answering the phone about lumber, lunch, mowing grass and all that stuff that comes with life. During Fire season, I will respond to a fire when I'm called.
I could not make JUST MILLING 5 hours a day.

[stumpy]

When discussing what to charge, many guys say things like, "I don't want to charge too much" or "I don't want to rip them off" or "I want to give them a good deal/fair price" Bottom line is, first know your costs then decide what you expect to get paid for your time.  There's your price.  If you are honest, give them good service and a good product and the customer agrees, then that's a fair price.  If you charge less, it's the customer that's "ripping YOU off"
Good Luck and enjoy.

[dboyt]

Be prepared to turn down some jobs, and have some customers turn you down.  I charge custom sawing by the hour, and production (barn siding and the like) by the board foot.  Quality & reliability will beat fast & cheap every time!

[Cedarman]

Think about this: What does  " Ripping off the customer mean"?  What does "Charging too much mean"?

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Think about this: What does  " Ripping off the customer mean"?  What does "Charging too much mean"?

Good question! 

[mesquite buckeye]

Think about this: What does  " Ripping off the customer mean"?  What does "Charging too much mean"?

Seems to me the first order of business is to make money. If you can make a lot that is better. If you lose money you won't be in business too long.

I think a lot of guys starting out think like employees instead of business owners, figuring out what they need to make per hour, etc.

There are a lot of hidden expenses that the beginning businessman/woman will often overlook, but they will come back and bite your behind if you don't look out.

Here are a few of them:

1. Setup time
2. Cleanup time
3. Breakdown time and loss of use of machinery
4. Talking to customers and business promotion time, all of it unpaid and lots resulting in NO SALE
5. Weather shutdowns
6. Depreciation of equipment
7. In search of the right logs time, and cutting and hauling if you do that part. All unpaid.
8. Vehicle expenses
9. Blade expenses
10. Lower production than grade sawing to produce custom orders.
11. Costs for labor including taxes, insurance, etc.
12. Bad logs that look like good logs

I'm sure there are many I didn't mention here. If you forget any of your hidden expenses, you will underprice your product and will struggle at best.

Sorry, that's just the way it is. :(

[Dave Shepard]

One mistake I see, and have done myself, is to take on unprofitable work because you have to have cash flow. You think that it is ok, because you can keep going, and you are banking on better days. The result of this is that you have trained people to think of you as the low ball operator, and you will use up your equipment, credit, and other resources. There will be no better days, unless you plan for them. Although I don't really do much custom work at the moment by design, I charge what I feel is the right amount of money to cover my overhead and other inputs. If that is too much for the customer, then they are welcome to go elsewhere. I won't burn my furniture to heat the house. (Old saying).

[Magicman]

If you are planning to provide a sawing service, then there is a need to be flexible as well as the need to make $$$ to stay in business.  My plans were to shut down all sawing and get ready for our PNW trip beginning next week, but my phone rang last night.  A "new" customer one mile away had one twelve foot 30" White Oak log that he wanted sawn into 2X6's for bridge decking.  OK, I would do it this morning, but what to charge for a one log job?  The minimum should be to charge for sawing one Mbf or 4 hours labor.  This would be fair to both he and I and we discussed it.  I charged 3 hours plus the blade.  I was OK and he knew that I cut him some slack.

The point is that this "new" customer will become a "repeat" customer. 

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Think about this also.....
A customer may say he gets his lumber sawn by me because I have fair prices because the guy down the road is charging way to much.

We all need to take this into consideration.....The 'Ol Goat has a hydraulic mill, I can saw some good Pine siding boards and charge the customer 25 cents a board foot for sawing his Pine. Yep...I'm making money at a fair price.

Now the guy down the road that customers thinks his prices are too high.....well he has a mill with NO hydraulics or he may have a manuel mill.
This guy is charging 40 cents a BF to saw customers lumber. He has to because of his extra labor.

Customers hardly ever, even think about the mill.....but go only on pricing.....thus the guy down the road with no hydraulics or a manuel mill gets a bad rap for charging to much when in reality he is charging a fair price based on his LABOR.

Do Y'all see what I'm talking about? So back to what Cedarman asked.....What is ripping off and what is over charging? I think if you're charging a fair price based your labor.....then unfortunately your judged by customers.