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The last of their trade?

Started by venice, October 17, 2016, 06:20:34 PM

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venice

A German TV station run a series on dying trades, called "Die Letzten ihres Standes" or "The last(Masters) of their trades", featuring masters of trades and crafts that became obsolet in our modern world and are about to become extinct.

This episode is about a sawyer who is running an old water powered mill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDIBJaUo2_8

Only available in German, but i think the video is quite self explaining to the most of us. If not, ich spreche deutsch...  ;)

venice

longtime lurker

It's a small saw for a single sash. Their was a few of them around up here for primary breakdown on the real big logs - diesel or electric powered rather then the water mill -  last one went out when the mill closed  best part of ten years back but the actual sash breakdown saw hadn't been used for years, they had a regular circle breakdown saw that could handle logs out to 60". The big sash ran a saw about 10" wide, and could take a 9' log through the throat.

I like sash gangs, and would love to run one off water power like that. But the EPA would never let me divert a stream, "green power" like that is just environmentally unfriendly dontcha know.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

bandmiller2

Lurker, so you have the EPA too.?? Its a good thing our countries were built before they came to be. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

sealark37

From an era when time and work were measured much differently.    Regards, Clark

Carson-saws

Really enjoyed that Sir.  That looks and runs just like the sawmill at "Old Mill Creek" in Northern Michigan.
They first show you and let you participate in using a pit saw...than take you the the Mill saw.  Amazing how things have moved along.  Thank you for sharing the video.
Let the Forest be salvation long before it needs to be

Ljohnsaw

Didn't understand a word, but he sure looks happy and enjoying his work.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

DMcCoy

Great video! Thanks for the link.

Liked the part with the water switch to turn on the other saws.  Clever configuration.  I would think this was a top of the line mill with it having a resaw and deck saw.

Because I don't understand German I wasn't sure if the lights were powered by a generator or not.

I wonder how many fish were "transported" down river over the years.  Makes me think this technology was fish friendly vs modern water turbines.

Cool old stuff.

Henk198

Very nice, thank you for sharing the video

bandmiller2

Has anyone here built an up and down sash sawmill.?? Other than being slow it could be run with a small engine or water wheel. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

longtime lurker

Well they still make them Frank.

Power requirements are low.
Cut accuracy because of the high tension on the saws, and how they work is high.
I've run the sums a few times and in the right size and grade of log they're actually way faster then they look: gotta remember that most of them run as gangs so multiply feed speed ( slow) by the number of boards being cut at a time ( lots) and they can put a lot through in a day.
Pretty simple design means they're bulletproof and idiot proof. Don't need genius help to run them, all ya gotta do is feed the cant and off bear.

Downsides are that the machine is rigged either as a breakdown saw or resaw by the type of infeed: it's one or the other not both.
Saw spacing is changeable but it's not like you can change it on the fly, so you need to sortlogs by size and grade if it's a breakdown saw. If a resaw you can't just take the next board off at 2" because of a grade change you see when sawing, spacing between saws is predetermined.

Logosol make a little one. There's another mob called minigatter. Weilopila and hartenburger make mid sized ones, then there's the likes of Link Belt, Esterer EWD and Bogli that make big gear. YouTube is your friend, use "gatter " as a search term, lot of them in central and Eastern Europe, that would be German for sash gang.

I keep eyeing off the Weilopila or the WRP58 as resaws myself. The larger of the logosol machines is big enough for what I want it for but too light/ underpowered for my types of wood. There are limitations sure, but mostly when I'm cutting flooring or paneling I'm putting the whole log into a set thickness: size the cant right and feed it in, then send a few to the edger later. My circles can do the big deep cuts and play with the dirty logs or cut framing where kerf is inconsequential. the sash is the high output thin kerf resaw, without the limitations of thin bands or the expense of wide ones.

Guess the way to look at them is one sash gang resaw behind a circle saw or LT70... is equivalent to around 4 LT70's in the right logs. Have a talk with member Alligator - he's got a lot of sash gang experience.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

bandmiller2

Lurker, thanks mate for the great description if I was starting over it would be a good project but I have two mills now and don't need a third. Let see though, the transmission out of a hay baler, sections of bandsaw bands, A clamp to tension the bands, simple feed mechanism. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

longtime lurker

I guess this is a sash saw. Technically speaking.
Sorta.
I ain't seen one like that before, bet it started life as a steam locomotive.  Kinda cool in its own way.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MTxgWBocPcU

Gotta love the Internet
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Kbeitz

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

longtime lurker

Quote from: Kbeitz on October 29, 2016, 03:04:38 AM
Wow a wood hack saw..

Now I'm disappointed. I expected you to be the guy to say " I got a H class locomotive down the back you could strip for parts"  ;D
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Ianab

A single sash saw was basically a mechanized version of the old 2 man pit saw. You can imagine how amazing that was when the first one turned up, and all you had to do was keep chucking wood into the steam engine boiler. As two guys on a pit saw are good for maybe 1/2 a horsepower, a 4 hp steam engine or water wheel could blitz them for production.

Then some bright spark, with a more powerful engine, thought to put several saws in the same sash, to make a gang saw and cut several boards at once.

They do have the advantage that they aren't speed dependent like a modern band or circle mill. If the saw speed slows down, so does the log speed, but the saw can still cut the same amount on each stroke, even if it's only 1/2 the speeds. So for water or wind power, they keep working as long as you have at least some drive power.

Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

longtime lurker

True Ian, but a 4 Hp steam engine has some serious grunt: multiply boiler horsepower by 13 to get approximate mechanical horsepower. Add a flat torque curve and some serious flywheel weight for momentum and ... it'll cut.

Kinda like the old Robinson resaw I used to have: on paper it's not impressive with its 25HP motor but in terms of output per man per day it'll take more than one modern bandmill to keep up. Lotta momentum in those big band wheels when they weigh the best part of a ton each.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

square1

Quote from: longtime lurker on October 23, 2016, 04:46:30 PM
the number of boards being cut at a time ( lots) and they can put a lot through in a day.
So are we talking a lot, or are we talking lots of lots? ;)

longtime lurker

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq20TErRLuU

Figure it just et that in a minute, 60 in an hour, 8 hours in a day with some saw changes thrown in... moren I'd want to be stacking by hand :D
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Ianab

I think that one counts as LOTS of boards.   :D
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

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