Woodland Mills....

[Bill Ragosta]

OK guys and gals, settle something for me.  I'm fairly new here on the board and I'm still researching about the possibility of my first hobby-sized bandsaw mill.  I've read up to 190 pages of this forum trying to educate myself about milling in general and about the specific companies and their models of bandsaws that meet my needs and budget and I've seen many, many threads where it's suggested that the Woodland Mills saw is the same unit as the Harbor Freight saw.  Apparently someone traced both company's product back to the same plant in China, blah, blah, blah.  While I wouldn't know and presume it's possible that both are very, very close, it's also entirely possible that they're made in the same factory, but with entirely different parts and built to higher standards and with better quality control.  Many companies in many industries market low, middle and high end products that are made in the same facility, but that doesn't make them the same product. 

Like I said, I'm in the research phase and on any given day you'll get a different answer from me regarding whether I want to go new or used, what brand I'm most interested in and what size/HP I feel that I need, but I have to admit that the owners of the Woodland Mills product seem almost universally happy with the quality of the mill and I've been impressed with the videos that the company has out there.  I'd just like to verify if there's truth to the rumor that it's the same as the Harbor Freight mill or conversely put it to rest as a myth.

[sawmilljoe]

I have a hm 126 and am very happy with it. Have not seen the hb one in person but there seems to be some things different  and the kroler  motor is the best. Could be made in the same factory but not the same mill.

[Ox]

I'll have to say that Woodland Mills wins hands down.  They are also a sponsor.  Click the link to the left in the sponsor column.  Without the sponsors this great forum wouldn't exist! 

[DanMc]

Hi Bill,
I just got the HM126 a little over a week ago.  I just watched a couple youtube videos for the HF mill and can say for sure that these are not the same machines.  There are a lot of similarities, but here are some differences that I have observed:
1.  The HM126 has separate vertical supports for the pushing handle vs the mill head.  The HF mill has one vertical support and the pushing handle is a bracket up at the top.  The crank for setting the head height is also directly above the single vertical support. 
2.  The engine.  This is a biggie for me.  I have one of the 6.5 HP HF engines on my log splitter, so I'm not afraid to use the HF engines, but so far I am pretty amazed at how this 9.5 HP Kohler engine runs and how easy it is to start.  Its as easy to pull as the 6.5 HP HF engine.
3.  The water tank on the HM126 is an aluminum canister, the HF uses a poly tank.  I think either one will work just fine, but the aluminum canister sure does look nice (if that matters on a mill!).

It is possible that some of these parts are coming out of the same plant.  I also had considered the HF mill, but when I found a year-old HM126 used, I jumped on it (the guy had some very serious health issues). 

I buy a lot of stuff from HF and it's one of my favorite stores, but another biggie for me is the absence of any serious level of support - especially for a significant piece of equipment like this. 

Dan

[Bill Ragosta]

Hi Bill,
I just got the HM126 a little over a week ago.  I just watched a couple youtube videos for the HF mill and can say for sure that these are not the same machines.  There are a lot of similarities, but here are some differences that I have observed:
1.  The HM126 has separate vertical supports for the pushing handle vs the mill head.  The HF mill has one vertical support and the pushing handle is a bracket up at the top.  The crank for setting the head height is also directly above the single vertical support. 
2.  The engine.  This is a biggie for me.  I have one of the 6.5 HP HF engines on my log splitter, so I'm not afraid to use their engines, but so far I am pretty amazed at how this 9.5 HP Kohler engine runs and how easy it is to start.
3.  The water tank on the HM126 is an aluminum canister, the HF uses a poly tank.  I think either one will work just fine, but the aluminum canister sure does look nice (if that matters on a mill!).

It is possible that some of these parts are coming out of the same plant.  I also had considered the HF mill, but when I found a year-old HM126 used, I jumped on it (the guy had some very serious health issues). 

Dan

Thanks Dan (and Ox and Sawmill Joe).  That's exactly the sort of information I was looking for.  I'm actually more likely to look at the HM130, but the HM126 looks decent too and the owners sure seem to like them.  If I could find a lightly used one for a good price, I'd definitely be interested.  I recently bid on a used Norwood in a sealed bid auction, but didn't get it.  I've been offered a Hud-son at what I think might be a fair price, but haven't pulled the trigger because I'm just a bit cautious about the Hud-sons (and haven't used this one yet, although the owner has offered to allow me to haul a log over and mill it into boards).   I'm still looking and enjoying the opportunity to learn about stuff that was mostly alien to me just a very short time ago.

[Timster]

I purchased a HM130 and am very happy with the mill. I am by no means experienced in milling lumber but have been able to turn out some decent lumber after practicing on just a few logs. I went for the four post frame and more horsepower. The Woodland mills machines seem to have a lot more engineering then some of the others in the same price range. Fit and finish are good and customer support is excellent.

The mill is a lot more capable than my bent, broken and surgically enhanced body can handle. Working alone has resurrected a long standing feud, mind is willing and enthusiastic however the body is slowly coming to terms with its shortcomings. I only wish I had bought it years ago.

[Bill Ragosta]

Ha!  I tell my kids (18 and 20 year old boys) all the time to learn from my mistakes, not to make the same mistakes that I've made and to allow me to shorten the learning curve for them.  Don't you wish you knew then what you now know?  Still, I'm sure that they think that I'm out of my mind and don't know anything about 90% of the time.   :D

[DannyLand]

Ive had the HM126 for two years now and am very happy with it.  I agree that its not the same as the HF one but appears to have some similarities.  I like you did a lot of research on the economical options out there and landed on Woodland.  There are certainly a few things on it I wished they did differently but some of them appear to be changed with the HM130 including the adjustable cut throat to allow for better blade guiding on smaller logs.  I looked at getting the 130 but couldnt justify the extra $1,000 just to be able to cut a log 4" wider and 4.5 horsepower at the time.   The 126 is quite powerful and has only slowed down in some large spruce so far, but Ive maxed out the 26" log capacity a few times so had I known this two years ago, I would have likely looked around for some extra cash to buy the bigger saw. I just added a set of cooks roller guides to mine yesterday and am already thrilled with them.     
     I also welded up new tracks for the saw a few months ago.  I had a large log land heavy on the factory 12' tracks and caused a dip in them, which translated into that dip occurring in all my boards.  If I were you, I would not install the leveling feet and just mount the tracks to solid runners under them, steel or wood.   It will help stiffen them up and prevent damage when a log drops heavy on them. 
    Good luck with your purchase, keep us posted when you get it.  Lucky you, you already have two helpers to move logs and stack lumber.  I have another 8-9 years before my kids are big enough to really help me. 

[goose63]

 

 

I bought my HM 126 3 years ago and love it

[clintnelms]

Love my HM126. Although if I were just now in the market I'd probably go with the HM130 just because of the design changes I've seen in the videos. Adjustable blade guide is a big plus I think.

[Bill Ragosta]

Thanks for all of the info gents.  You make my point, those that own the WM mill seem to like them quite a bit.  I'm not sold on WM any more than 4 or 5 other brand names, I just wanted to clarify for my own good (and for the good of the board) that the WM machine is NOT the same unit as the HF machine.  Thanks.

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

Bill,

Using abbreviations can save typing but sometimes leads to confusion.

I'm sure you're using WM  to refer to Woodland Mills but most members here at the Forestry Forum would use WM to refer to Wood-Mizer.

Both companies make good mills but one is a BIT better known than the other.

Good luck on your decision.

Herb

[Bill Ragosta]

Bill,

Using abbreviations can save typing but sometimes leads to confusion.

I'm sure you're using WM  to refer to Woodland Mills but most members here at the Forestry Forum would use WM to refer to Wood-Mizer.

Both companies make good mills but one is a BIT better known than the other.

Good luck on your decision.

Herb

Good points and I admit that I hate when people use abbreviations on public forums, because they can be confusing.  My apologies.

[bandmiller2]

Bill, band maintenance is of upmost importance, a sharp well set band will make even a bargain priced mill cut good accurate lumber, wile a poor band will cripple even the best mill. Enjoy yourself mate but be sure to work smart and save your back. Frank C.

[btulloh]

Good luck with your research, Bill.  I'm be interested to see what you decide to buy.  It sounds to me like you're taking a good approach. 

I found it hard to evaluate the various mills when I hadn't ever used and maintained a bandmill before.  After a while I just got one that was in my comfort zone and had a good reputation.  Things turned out ok.

I wasn't keen on a used mill back then, since I didn't feel like I knew enough to evaluate the condition.  Looking back, I think that it's just like any other piece of machinery and can be evaluated on that basis alone. 

After all the dust settled and I decided on a particular mill, it all turned out ok and I'm glad to be sawing some logs.  So good luck and jump in deep end when you get through with your research. 

[fishfighter]

I been having my 126 just under two years. Would I buy it again? Yes, I been very happy with it. Only things that I had replaced are the drive belts and a set of blade bearing.

I did look at the HF mills, but after looking hard at them, as with anything from HF, you get what you pay for. I'm sure they will saw logs, but to me they are built a little lite. Putting a 4K log on the bed is just a matter of time before one bends the track system.

Another thing. Woodland has been great for product support from day one.

Now, if I were to be in the market for a new mill and knowing what I know now, I would most likely would go with their 130 mill. It looks like they went a step better building it then the 126.

In the future, I will be adding some Cooks blade guilds and adding to were I can adjust the guilds in and out as better mills have. Now if only one of the guys would report their findings of adding Cook guilds to their 126. ;D

One thing, you didn't say as to what you are planning on sawing, how much sawing you will be doing. Support equipment that you have too! Manual mills are a lot of extra work and having support equipment is a very big plus. I use a tractor and a Case 580C to load, flip logs on my mill. At my age and health, there would be no way for me to do everything with out support equipment.

Best of luck on your search.

[thecfarm]

Bill,nothings beats seeing any saw in person. I went to many events that was showing off thier mills. I think I looked for 10 years before I bought one. Maybe 20. I think 10 was really serious looking.

[IndianaJoe]

any of you wanting to upgrade to the 130. you might think about selling your 126. I for one would love to have a used 126, for the right price!!!!!

[DannyLand]

Got a 20' trailer and the time to drive to CT? ;D.    I guess it also depends on what your idea of the "right Price" is.   

[ChugiakTinkerer]

I thought I should chime in here as a happy owner of a Woodland Mills HM130.  I have no experience with any other mill, but being a frugal cuss I did consider the HF product.  There are no Harbor Freight stores in Alaska so my experience with their specific items is also limited.  I am no stranger though to cheap Chinese goods.  :

With their mills manufactured in China, Woodland Mills has to work to differentiate their products from HF and similar vendors.  I think they are doing a good job of that by improving their mills with each successive model.  And so far their customer service has been great.  I was missing a few parts for my track extension (package damaged in shipping) and they sent replacements right away, and threw in a free hat as well.  Their product and customer service seems a perfect match for my hobby milling needs.

[Brucer]

Well, I've only operated the other kind of WM mills ;D, but one of my (former) customers bought a Woodland Mills HM126 last summer and he's as pleased as anything with it. I'm sharpening his blades for him now and I've seen his product - excellent quality.

I think it must be reasonably easy to operate because he only has one arm.

[Bill Ragosta]

Thanks for all of the replies gents.  I'm still not completely sold on Woodland Mills any more so than a few other brands, but this thread demonstrates what I've seen and read on other forums as well.  I think I've seen exactly one comment or review that could be called critical of the product and you'll have a small number of complaints or bad experiences with almost any company or product.  It seems clear that "made in China" or not, Woodland Mills has made a pretty good product.  Hopefully they'll keep them at the price point where they are now and continue to make small improvements. 

For instance, I'm not a welder and I'd have to pay someone to build a trailer if I ended up with one and decided that's the way I wanted to go.  It seems that Woodland Mills would offer it as an option.

[Roundhouse]

Bill, I can add to the chorus of those who enjoy their Woodland Mills bandmill. I've had mine since spring and only spent a couple days milling so far and other than fine tuning my setup I'm very happy with the lumber it has produced.

Like you, the only downfall for me was the lack of a trailer option. I knew I wanted it mobile and didn't want to build my own trailer. After a bit of research I settled on a 22' pontoon trailer from Wolverine. It fit the track with one extension almost perfectly. For instance the tires are close enough to the track that they don't need to be removed and you don't have to step around them when milling. There are cheaper trailer options but I wanted a new trailer under my new mill with good tires, reliable lights etc. Not the solution for everybody but it worked for me and can be mounted to the trailer without welding required.



You may have read my build thread already but if not it goes into the trailer and other aspects of the HM130 in greater detail:

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,90425.0.html

[Bill Ragosta]

I had seen your thread Roundhouse.  The problem with Woodland Mills failing to offer the trailer as an option is that by the time you add a more expensive trailer option, the Woodland Mills mill is no longer as economical.  For instance, if you pay $2000 for a trailer (that they could likely build much, much cheaper), you're now into the $6000-7000 range and competing with mills that might have better reputations or better options.  If you could add some sort of trailer option for $500-1000, you're still less than most of the comparably equipped competitors.  By the time you add a couple of grand for the trailer or several weeks messing around building one, I think I'd be inclined to start second guessing myself and wondering if Woodmizer, EZ Boardwalk, Cook's or another company may not have been a better deal.  Again, thanks to everyone for the insight and opinions.  When and if I pull the trigger on a mill, new or used, I'll surely post.

[Roundhouse]

I had seen your thread Roundhouse.  The problem with Woodland Mills failing to offer the trailer as an option is that by the time you add a more expensive trailer option, the Woodland Mills mill is no longer as economical.  For instance, if you pay $2000 for a trailer (that they could likely build much, much cheaper), you're now into the $6000-7000 range and competing with mills that might have better reputations or better options.  If you could add some sort of trailer option for $500-1000, you're still less than most of the comparably equipped competitors.  By the time you add a couple of grand for the trailer or several weeks messing around building one, I think I'd be inclined to start second guessing myself and wondering if Woodmizer, EZ Boardwalk, Cook's or another company may not have been a better deal.  Again, thanks to everyone for the insight and opinions.  When and if I pull the trigger on a mill, new or used, I'll surely post.

I'm with you 100%. It is/was frustrating. I ran the numbers for a couple weeks debating what to do. I ultimately went this way for a few reasons, I really liked what I saw and heard about the HM130, I was more impressed with the trailer I'd ultimately have vs. trailer options at other companies, I could be using this mill/trailer combo for 20-30 years if I don't scale up at some point, with the miles I'll put on an overbuilt trailer appealed to me, and I was still money ahead compared to my other choices. I haven't convinced anyone else to go this route and I'm OK with that, it may not make sense for anyone else. As for why Woodland Mills doesn't offer a trailer I can only speculate but it doesn't seem to fit their business model with the way they pack and ship the mills as kits, they would have to change things up a lot to either ship mills on trailers or offer them for in person pick-up. If they had a trailer that shipped broken down on a crate it wouldn't have appealed to me like a heavy welded trailer.

What would be great is if Woodland Mills contracted directly with a trailer manufacturer like Wolverine to manufacture a simplified version of the pontoon trailer, less manufacturing, less steel, single axle option and a bulk buy should get it down to $1000. I purposely spent more to get two axles and a better ride over rough roads, most owners don't worry about that. If they ever come out with a single axle trailer I'd have fewer pangs of regret.  ;)

[Bill Ragosta]

Yep, I agree with all of that.

[hunterbuild]

I'm still cutting away with my Harbor Freight saw mill. I still haven't put the 13hp motor yet, but still planning on it. After 3 plus year with about $1700 in to it, it's so paid for. I think most of it is good blades, tight guides and good blade tension is the most important things.