Cutting crooked logs . . .

[TexasTimbers]

My wife was sitting on the couch in our shop yesterday reading articles in the April/May issue of Sawmill 7 Woodlot mag, and then distilling them down for me as I worked. Paraphrasing what the articles were saying by hitting the highlights. Reading several hundred words quietly then verbally conveying them to me in just a dozen or so.

As I was working away on a mess I had made, and making it worse, she had been reading quietly for quite some time. She cleared her throat loudly to get my attention, and when I turned to hear her words of wisdom she simply said: "I don't want to see anymore crooked logs coming through that gate. It's money down the drain."

I had not even thought about it. But she went on to elaborate about much of a total waste of time a crooked log represents. I know there must be exceptions, like burl and and whatnot that makes you want to take one any way, but i can't tell you how many crooked Walnut i have cut down simply because it is Walnut. Should I be passing up Walnut because it is pretty crooked? And at what point do you say "That is too crooked."?

I have spen alot of time whittling on crooked logs with my mill come to think of it.

[HORSELOGGER]

Aint nuthin a guy cant get some good flooring out of. I lay the curved logs down and saw through and through, flip the log once and finish it to the deck ( using a band saw ) dry with the bark on  the flitches and when the wood gets to the shop, I cut the curved pieces about in half, right about the apex of the curve, and start ripping out flooring blanks. There is a lot of good flooring in bigger diameter curved logs, and it is not a waste of time in my opinion. I haul home alot of the dregs that no one else wants to mess with, its part of doing restoritive forestry work. I also love the spiritual metaphor of uncovering a thing of beauty, ready for service, from an ugly outside wrapper ;D

[Tom]

It depends......  on what you want to make.

Many mills, especially the big production ones, want culvert pipe looking logs, all of the same size.  They can mindlessly saw them into masses of boards that grade high and sell quickly to the majority of customers.

If you are a little fellow looking for a niche and have an artistic eye with a gift to convince others that what you have is valuable, you could find yourself being the only one with crooked planks, live edges, interesting figure and squirrely grain.  You might have to create the market, but the first time someone uses one of your crooked planks for a bench or sign, people will ask where they got it and you're on your way.

Speed isn't necessarily "where it's at" with our little mills.  Trying to compete with a big mill in 2x4 studs is a waste of time.  By the same token, you might thrive on what they throw away because it slows them down.

Be careful about taking someone else's statements as gospel even if they are written down.  Most are talking only about their experiences not their visions.

When racing motorcycles you find that there is a "groove".  You run fastest when you are in that groove because it is usually the shortest way around the track and all the traffic that runs in it keeps it smooth and full of traction.  What you have to realize is that everyone who rides in the "Groove" is in single file.   If you want to win, you have to get out of it try something different.  Nobody wins the race who is looking at the back of someone else's helmet. :D

[Fla._Deadheader]

Show her Reid Crosby's website.  :

[TexasTimbers]

Show her Reid Crosby's website. :

Shucks all she got to do is look around here. ;D

My point of curiosity was how are y'all are handling it. Bout the same way as I have been I guess. Cut 'em straight or cut 'em crooked. Just cut 'em!

[Ron Wenrich]

A lot depends on why a log is crooked.  If you are grade sawing, and the crook was left to get more footage, you'll lose grade and not gain much footage.  You should be cutting the longest straight log you can get.  That may mean to leave some of those crooks in the woods.

Drying can also be a problem.  Sometimes those boards have a mind of their own. 

Now, if you have a good niche market, you can saw for it.  But, if you're going for a grade market, then they should be straight. 

[mike_van]

I'm about done with an order for a few thous. bf of pine 1x6's & 1x8's for siding & roof boards. The crooked logs take longer on this, and there's more waste. Some nice cabinet wood, I'd save it all, it only takes a short piece to make a drawer front. A lot of these logs I'm cutting could probably have been bucked better by the logger, a 12 footer with the last 2 ft pointing up in the air should have been a 10, the boards you do get with that wild grain aren't going to behave well either.

[Larry]

Should I be passing up Walnut because it is pretty crooked? And at what point do you say "That is too crooked."?

I'm talking walnut only...buck the tree yourself if possible to eliminate crook.  Walnut doesn't need to be bucked at even foot marks either.  FAS walnut only has to be 6' long...and anything less than 8' you can grade using entirely different rules.  Some wholesalers are buying down to 4' long...walnut flooring cants can also be sold at 4'.  They don't like 4' and limit how much you can sell.  Guess profit is how much ya invested in the log...and how much ya sell the lumber for.  Only you can determine what will work. 

Another idea....saw the humps off like this:


They will bring top dollar as fish boards iffen ya can dry and process them.

I also like extra large diameter oak logs less than 8' long with crook...since I can get em on the cheap sometimes.  What woodworker would turn down a quarter sawn perfectly clear 15" wide board 4' long?

[ohsoloco]

mike, when I'm custom sawing I usually consider that last 2 feet to be a firewood donation  :D  If I get some crooked logs to mill for someone (sometimes they're all crooked  : ), I always explain to the customer that I may cut some logs in half (at the apex of the crook), or just lop off a foot or two. 

A lot of the curved cherry I've milled ended up twisting pretty bad....so much for those flitch table tops  :(

[clif]

I am certainly not an expert on this, but I will tell you my experience with logs with sweep if this is what we are talking about crooked.  My experience has been only with spruce on a band mill and I read this some where ( I thought it was on the forum, but I could not find it to reference it )  first cut the log to a useable length to get as much of the  sweep out, place it on the carriage with the horns equally up cutting the horns through and through until you have a face on the belly, flip the log 180 and cut the hump through and through until you have face the length of the log, flip the log 90 and saw through and through for your boards or lumber.  Now you may get a little warp, but I generally speaking get very little crook or other drying defect.  I was pretty skeptical at first, but I have been quite satisfied with the results and I had nothing to loose by trying.  Even now, when I am sawing I am thinking " if it warps I'll use it for siding ", but so far it just has not been a problem. Clif

[WDH]

Ususally crooked means tension and compression wood.  That may be pretty, but it is tough to deal with and stay straight.  There is no free ride..............

[pigman]

  Tom said

Many mills, especially the big production ones, want culvert pipe looking logs,

I have sawed several of those type of logs. :(  By the time I get the log squared, there is nothing left but the hole. ;)

Bob

[timcosby]

 
small ones half this size go for $600 -$900 on the web. none to be had locally. i've cut some small 4-6 footers to see if there is a market.


can you say sweep!!!



sort of obscene.

[Cedarman]

You folks that have the imagination should have a field day with those crooked walnuts and some of the other trees too.  Most of us are sawing for niche markets. What about making arched entry ways?   Tim, neat pictures. 8)

I see too many loggers not want to take the time to merchandize their logs to get the best value out of the tree.  I think that is what the sawmill article was trying to get you to think about.  It is better for most of us less imaginative types to buck out 1 or 2 foot dog leg rather than get a longer log. 

I talked to a walnut sawyer yesterday and they are running a lot of short walnut through a sharp chain scragg and resawing to make 3 1/2" flooring stock.  He can sell all he can get. 

[treebucker]

Clif,
I cut them almost identical to you except I usually start with the bow up. I feel the resulting board, if it does move, is most likely to move along the original bow. At worst this would result in a bowed board. To me, a bowed board is easier to utilize than a crooked board.

I'm of the opinion that bowed logs are seldom worth dealing with. But customers seem to have a bias toward filling their pile with them. If I can, I'll talk the customer into cutting them in half like ohsoloco suggests. But they seldom agree to this. Too many times we've had to cut 14"+ logs that we were lucky to get 6 2x4's out of. It's a total waste of time for both parties. I'd much rather cut them in half and increase the yield significantly.

timcosby,
I can only guess that you made that by cutting half way through then repositioning the cant then finishing the cut. Do you remove the band during the repositioning to lessen the chance that it will be damaged and how hard is it to get things lined back up?

[TexasTimbers]

I can't answer for timcosby but I will answer for him. ;D I bet he uses wedges. I have already cut one like that not as dramatic. Iused wedges and repositioned as y9ou said I didn not remove the blade. I waited until the the cut was as near the axis as I could then i released the clamps and gingerly spun the log. Maybe I got lucky and the next one will bend/break the blade but I am batting 1000 so far. ;)

Now tim you can tell us a better way there has to be one. ;)

[jackpine]

Sometimes there is a reason for cutting crooked logs. I just spent the last 3 days sawing mainly crooked 106" lg. oak logs for one of my regular customers. He is a part time logger and these were culls only good for firewood or pulp and some were too big for pulp. He also has a yearly contract with a local potato farm to supply 1000  4" x 6" x 35" oak planks for their potato bins. So, we slab heavy to clean up the sides and cut as many 4" x 6" as we can get from each log and the heavy slabs he uses for firewood.Works out well for him but can be a challenge to saw at times :D

With this usage warp or twist is not too big of an issue as they are being cut down into the 35" lengths at the end.

[timcosby]

the way i did it:
got it on the bed hanging off as shown in my gallery and would cut a foot or two then spin/shift log and cut foot or two....till i had it split in half... was easier after i had a flat surface.. then cut into 2.5" slabs. got four useable ones out of the log.
the way i should have done it:
build a platform for support out side of the mill that the hanging off part of the log would rest on. a platform on the mill bed would be good too. you would get a level cut then.


small 4-6 foot long curved log:
put two 1x12's on mill bed and one sacraficial 2x12 vertical against the log stops. put the log on the bed with the two ends touching the 2x12 and cut away no need to dog down that i have seen just go a little slower.

[LeeB]

Tim, I wood think if you were going to cut a lot of these you coould devise a turn table that could be attached to the bed and just rotate the log as the blade made it's way down the log.