harvesting firewood

[gearman]

I cut about 10 pulp cord/yr as firewood for personal use. I cut mostly standing dead ash and elm and storm damaged maple.  My question is ..what is the best way to get logs to the road/trail? In the past I used a 3/8 cable to bucket of tractor FEL, just pulling with the tractor and a pulley.  This is slow and awkward in tight trail areas.  I'm thinking about a winch mounted to the tractor.  Once the logs are at the road/trail, I cut them to length (3ft) and load in bucket/trailer.  Any suggestions?  Electric winch, hydraulic winch, pto winch, capstan winch?  I'm using a NH 55da with FEL and pulling less than 16 inch logs mostly.  Advice?

[treefarmer87]

alot of guys on here have tractor winches, they are very pleased with them and they work very well

[gearman]

The simplest system would be an atv winch but cable length and speed might be very limiting.  I don't really need a farmi system, as I buck the logs to 3ft trailside, and cost is a bit of an issue

[tjdub]

The simplest system would be an atv winch but cable length and speed might be very limiting.  I don't really need a farmi system, as I buck the logs to 3ft trailside, and cost is a bit of an issue

An ATV winch probably isn't going to do the job.

Log Pro tractor winches seem to be a bit cheaper than FARMI ones.

http://www.logprousa.com/winchskidder.html

[SwampDonkey]

How about a logging arch and the ATV to skid to the road or even use the tractor?

[CX3]

Heres how we used to cut 52" cedar blocking.  We had a tractor with a loader and 3 pt hitch.  We would drive tractor as close to logs as we could and then buck the logs to 52" (in your case 3ft).  We would hand stack the loader bucket full.  But on the 3 pt, we had a deal all rigged up kind of like a "carry all" if you know what that is?  But our carry all was special built for our needs, we built racks that would allow us to stack the blocks 4 feet high.  The floor of the carry all was almost as wide as the tractor, and stuck out about 4 feet behind the tractor, and we could stack 4 feet high.  We also split firewood and hauled it out, getting nearly a half cord on the carry all. 

I always wanted to make a quick attach system for the carry all.  Where you could just back the load onto the trailer and set it down and unhook it right there and go back for another load or even 2

[Woodhog]

For small amounts of wood like that I just use our ATV (Arctic Cat 500 Manual) with an 8 foot Bogie wheel  trailer , the trailer has a wooden box in it, I cut every thing to stove length, load the trailer, come out and throw it on the back of the truck. It will go just about anywhere, turn easily in the woods, and the wood is clean , no mud on it.
The box comes out and you can haul 8 foot lengths if you wanted to, but I am too old to load them now...

I also had a small trailer for farm tractors that I did the same thing with. We did the same thing with a horse also with small amounts of wood like yours...

It always seemed nice to bring it from the woods ready for the stove...

[gearman]

Thanks for the ideas woodhog and cx3.  The terrain is too thick and wet for ATV and arch systems and it has always seemed simplier to cut wood to firebox length rather than haul it home and cut it again to firebox size.  We use a system similar to cx3, in that we load the FEL and a small trailer.  The problem is getting the wood to the tractor.  It would be nice to drive down a trail/load and pull logs to the roadside, the cut to length. One detail i failed to mention is the land I cut has some a lot of low areas.  When a timber company cut it years ago, then also dug deep drainage ditches.  I cant navigate a tractor or ATV with a load through the ditches, I can barely jump them on foot.  Keep the ideas coming..thanks

[treetech]

Have you considered a portable winch like the "Yankee Yarder"? If you do a search there was a thread a while back with some pictures and info.

[DaveP]

     I use my ATV and a skid plate with a short chain.  If they are about 18 inches I cut them in 9 foot lengths and skid them out to where I cut and split them.  Works great for me.

[ahlkey]

I have a Farmi winch connected to a 45HP tractor and it has been one of the best investments in equipment I have ever done.  I use it to do firewood and pulpwood in large quantities.  I use a lot of snatchblocks to drag the whole trees directionally and up when necessary.   I even added an amsteel blue extension of 70 feet so overall I can go after select sawlogs pretty off the trails. I would look around for a used one if you can find one but if not they do hold value over the years.

[g_man]

I have a winch now but when I was alot younger we would use a wheel barrow to to what you are doing. Find one or make one with the biggest diameter and widest wheel you can. Pick a path thru your maze, sometimes we would put a plank down where it was muddy or across a skidder rut. It helps if it is down hill to the tractor  :D

[SwampDonkey]

My uncle uses a wooden wheel barrel with a big steal spoke wheel for firewood gathering.

[John Mc]

What you are doing sounds like the perfect application for a logging winch mounted on your tractor's 3 pt hitch. I use a Uniforest 35E (similar specs to a Farmi 351) behind my 33 HP New Holland compact tractor. I drop the trees, limb them, and skid them out to the trail. Sometimes I use a self releasing snatch block, if I need to skid around a corner. Once to the trail, I buck it up to stove length, and either throw it in my old beater woods trailer, or split it trailside and then throw it in the trailer.

With your larger tractor, you may want a bigger winch (Farmi 501 or equivalent). You occasionally see them for sale used, but that's pretty rare in my area.

It's been a very handy tool. I had been looking used for several years and never found one. I could not justify the price of a new one for just my own use. Eventually, when I became a co-owner of some forest land with a group of other families in my area, I bought one. It's worked out well for me... I help out the others by skidding trees for them, and in return they do some of my bucking and splitting for me.

John Mc

[CX3]

I am also on the winch bandwagon.  Once a guy has a good winch, you will never know how you made it without it.  Those other methods I mentioned were for when I was dumb and ignorant ;D  Winches are expensive, but worth the weight in gold

[GDinMaine]

How about something like Banjo Picker is building. 

www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,47210.0.html

There are a few other threads talking about homemade winches like that but he has a good thread going and is in progress.  I bet you could find the materials and the winch for a fraction of the cost of a factory built unit.

[ridge logger]

 a winch is the only way to go, just pull your load to you and skid it to your splitter and load it up

[paul case]

this may not help much.
i get into some logging jobs that the owner wants some trees removed that arent fit or big enough for saw logs. my response is ''i dont buy firewood''. they then say well if you want them you can have them. i then cut them 20' to 25' and haul them home on my trailer behind my log truck. i carry them out of the woods with the front end loader on my tractor. they get stacked up at my mill in the firewood log pile and when i get some slack time or an order for firewood i work some of it up. i have had some folks that buy the logs long or chunked up at 18'' and even split staked and delivered.
regular logging equipment does double duty at the case ranch. pc

[gearman]

GDinMaine. I might have stumbled onto banjopickers build. Bill M has some great looking winch systems on NH55 tractors. I have some woodworking experience, but no metal fab skills or tools. I am kicking around the idea of employing a local welder/fab shop.  Ill inquire with bill M as to out of pocket cost for the setup he built.  I'm sure if I had a winch setup I could find other folks to skid for

[thecfarm]

Don't be afraid of the $3-4000 price on a 3pt winch. Yes,outrageous,but they will last a lifetime I think.We have put our Norse through some good size wood and loads and no problems so far.We had our in the woods for 3-4 days a week for just about 5 years.Now it has a life of ease with just fire wood.
Probaly if you have to hire the work out,another grand would just about buy a winch all made and proven that it works. Once you get a winch it makes life so much easier.

[clww]

How about something like Banjo Picker is building. 

www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,47210.0.html

There are a few other threads talking about homemade winches like that but he has a good thread going and is in progress.  I bet you could find the materials and the winch for a fraction of the cost of a factory built unit.

That's what I was thinking as I read this, too.

[GDinMaine]

.... no metal fab skills or tools. I am kicking around the idea of employing a local welder/fab shop.  Ill inquire with bill M as to out of pocket cost for the setup he built.  I'm sure if I had a winch setup I could find other folks to skid for

I don't know what it would cost to a fab shop build you something like a winch, but I imagine that would not be cheap.  My guess is that you could be looking at $500-600 in labor alone plus the materials.  Your cost will reach well over $1000 and that will take you into the range of some used logging winches.  It might not be an outlandish idea for you to plunk down the money for one.

I have the absolute bare bones metal fabrication tools that work for my need, but nothing ever gets done fast.  Saves me some money though.   The DIY is cheaper if you have at the least some basic tools and welding capability and patience for making mistakes. 

[bill m]

This photo is of the first winch I built. All the steel I had on hand and bought a new Hydraulic winch for $750. to install on it.


The next photo is of the second winch I built. Had to buy most of the steel for this one ( about $400 ) and bought a used hydraulic winch for $250.

There are more  photos of this one in my gallery under tractor mods. I have thought about teaming up with a local fab shop to produce these. I know I could produce them and be very competitive price wise with what is available now.

[gearman]

Was looking at the northeast implements site, Farmi products and notices a Farmi EV450 hydraulic winch.  This unit runs on tractor hydraulics and is a winch only, no skidding function.  If this were cheaper, would I miss the skidder portion of the Farmi JL501 say?  Since Im only cutting firewood and normally cut logs to 30-36inches at the road, or stump (if I can get the tractor/trailer to the stump), do I need the ability to skid?  When would the ability to skid be useful, rather than just to winch.  Does anyone have a Farmi EV450? 

[allmosdone]

  Hello gearman, just got my skidder frame with winch put together. I used to gather my fire wood in the same way you do, but over the years more efficent, less labor intensive methods have evolved. My winch frame lets me yard to the trail, buck to length(if so desired) and skid to a landing where I buck, split and stack. This has allowed me to do more in less time, and be safer. It also radically reduces the thrash on the tractor. What my point is, if your looking to  make your work faster and more efficent, then investment in tools is the best way. I looked at how much wood I cut each year, how many more years will I be cutting  compared to the investment in parts, winch and time and seemed like a fair bet. Let me tell you, the increase in production is awsome, and the money seems trivial now. I read you arn't a welder, and thats cool( every body can't do everything) But if your considering paying someone to built this thing, you my be ahead just bying one factory built. Custom, quality welding is not cheap, and if you find a guy who is, beware!!! Remember what this equipment will be doing, and whos safty(first) and time and production (second) will be at stake. Looking down the road, the investment now , spread over the rast of your woodcutting life  is probably not that much. This equipment could also extend your woodcutting life by saving your body a bit. All things I considered myself. Last, it has been mentioned that these winches are rarly found used, wy experience too,thats because its such a usfull tool that(one) people use them forever, and(two) when your ready to sell, all you need to do is ask your bubbys(they will be jumping over each other to buy it. Just my thoughts. CRA

[gearman]

Just as a follow-up to my thread, I purchased a used Farmi 351P from a local dealer.  Have used it for about 4hrs, very happy with it.  Have pulled about 2 pulp cords.  I have noticed that the skidding of the logs is a bit tricky (getting several bunches of logs ready to skid).  Overall very happy and thanks for the posts.

[John Mc]

A good purchase. You won't regret it.

As you are already finding out, there are some real tricks to using it effectively and safely. Did you get a self releasing snatch block with it? That's a tool that really expands the usefulness of the winch.

I'm far from an expert. I'd love to get some training with it from someone who knows his stuff. I do have a friend who used to teach/run the Forestry and Natural Resources program at a local career center. They used a tractor and winch for some of their work... I'm hoping to catch up to him for some pointers this spring.

John Mc

[GDinMaine]

Good for you Gearman!!!  Don't forget the pictures.

[gearman]

As part of the price barter, I did get the self releasing snatch block and sling.  When the dealer offered it and stated it was worth $250.00, my wife rolled her eyes.  We have been using rescue style pulleys, that dont self release.  After, 1 afternoon of working with the self release style, she was impressed.  That night, I found it on the farmi website with a MSRP of $350 or $375 which cemented the deal.  When mama's happy, the whole house is happy.  pics to follow

[John Mc]

Farmi makes some great products, but their price on the self-releasing snatch block is a rip-off. The price your salesman mentioned is more realistic. Labonville sells them for $260.

[gearman]

I agree.

Hey you have a great  hammer/nail quote

[Blackfly]

You've got a spiffy new snatch block, so you probably don't need this, but for those who don't yet, here's a good description of how to make one:http://www.ontariowoodlot.com/pages_pdf_new/snatchblock.pdf
I watched a guy use one that had a large hook (from a peavey, possibly) welded onto it instead of a loop for a strap. Quite efficient, although you wouldn't want to hook it around your best trees in the spring when the bark was tender.

[thecfarm]

Blackfly,welcome to the forum. They will be out soon. What have you got for logging equipment,sawmill?

[Blackfly]

Thanks- I've got a Bombardier Muskeg Carrier. Not much of a sawmill, though; I made a chainsaw attachment similar to a Haddon Lumbermaker (I think it was called). Nail a 2x6 onto the log and cut along it for a straight edge. Ok for an occasional beam but certainly not for cutting boards. I've been eyeing those Thomas mills for a while.

[thecfarm]

I suppose you noticed I have a Thomas. Really like it. Have not used it for a couple years now.Wife wants a fence so you know what that means.

[John Mc]

Hey you have a great  hammer/nail quote

Thanks - I read that decades ago somewhere, and it stuck with me. I hate to admit it, but "I resemble that remark" all too often. Adapting what you already have to the problem at hand is a very useful skill, but the quote helps to remind me to step back and think about whether I'm approaching a problem in the best way. Sometimes, it's OK to treat the problem like a nail, even when it's not... other times, you're better of going to get a screwdriver.

John Mc

[ahlkey]

I recently finished doing a a couple hundred cords of pulpwood as well as some nice sawlogs with my 351P Farmi winch.  It was hilly and without the self-releasing snatchblocks would of been difficult or very problematic.   I also use at times an Amsteel extension rope when I need to go out further than 165 ft.  In the beginning never thought I would use an extension but when you want to get at a nice Sawlog 250 ft out it is nice to be able to get it.   It is certainly a bit more time consuming when everything is out of sight and it seems you hit every old stump but if you take it slow it does get the job done. 

In a year or two you will wonder how you ever logged without the Winch!

[gearman]

I also have a fixed 50ft and 100ft extension cable for the winch (from my old dragging setup), just in case.  Agree on that comment about hitting every stump on the way to the winch.  I actually up-ended some light weight limbs, when they snagged. As with any power tool, it requires vigilance and there is a learning curve

[gearman]

Cant seem to get the hang of attaching photos to the post, but the pictures of the Farmi 351P are in my gallery at album  "farmi 351P-gearman"

[bill m]

When I need to attach photos to a post I go up and click on the forum extras and go to photo galleries. This will bring up the photo gallery in another window. Then I go to my gallery and find the pictures I want, click on the "click here to copy this photo code....." then go back and finish my post.

[Piston]

Gearman,
Good purchase on the winch and I'm sure it's well worth the money.  I was about to recommend a grapple for your FEL until I reread your post and saw the part about the deep ditches where you can't get the tractor into.  Sounds like a winch is certainly the best tool for the job for you. 
I also harvest small amounts of firewood and was considering rebuilding an old farmi winch (still am) but put it off and ended up buying a grapple attachment for the FEL after a ridiculously large number of hours spent researching them.  I went with a WR Long setup which isn't the cheapest but from what I have found one of the best.  I am very happy with the purchase and have had it only about 2 months now, I've put maybe 15 hrs on the tractor using the grapple and haven't had the bucket on since. 

I don't have too many pics yet but I'll post what I have.  The best thing about it is I can use it to carry firewood logs out to the splitting area and then buck them up, then if the rounds are too heavy I can individually pick that round up (or a whole bunch) and put them right at waist height at the splitter.  I like not having to get off the tractor to pick up the logs, although you can't carry as much as you can skid with the farmi.  I also keep all the dirt off the log which helps when bringing logs to the mill.  With my LT15 being all manual this helps a TON!

When your done splitting you can pick up all the splits with the bucket and all the dirt and debris falls right through the tines.  Sure is a handy tool, I've used it to pick up whole trees (small trees  ;D) and then remove the stump and carry it away.  Makes brush cleanup a breeze as well. 

I don't think a grapple would have worked as well for you but for others who are considering a winch for personal firewood I just wanted to throw this out as another option.  A farmi winch is certainly better at skidding logs though there is no doubt about that, but a grapple is so universal I don't know how I got along without it.  I'm gonna post a better review once I get more time and pics under my belt. 

[thecfarm]

Just like this.





I sure do like that blue tractor.   ;D Looks like a new one.I have a 92' Ford than,2120,42 hp,4wd with a Norse winch. That tractor has seen some wood behind it. How many hp is that tractor? We just bought a T1510 30hp,4wd for the wife to mow with.Do you have loaded tires? They sure do help with a loader and for traction in the woods.I also made up some short chains too,4 feet long. I have 5 chokers and have 5-8 foot and 5-4 foot chains. Much easier to grab a short chain when I playing around with the small wood.That way I don't have to run 5 feet of chain through the choker.

I can't remember but seem like if you add 10,000 to your member number in profile you can add a link to your pictures the way mine is.I can't remember now.I tried to find it,but gave up on it. Sorry. Someone else will help out with that.

Piston nice grapple you have there. I could use one like that. I dig alot of rocks and haul dirt with my loader,so I would have to trade it off with my loader,but would save me alot of time and work.

[thecfarm]

Here's my set up.No where near as good looking as yours.Not really a good picture. Need to take another one to show tractor and winch better.

[gearman]

The tractor is a TC55DA, 55hp, 4wd.  Just turned 75hrs, mostly pushing snow and sand.  I have a set of pallet forks, but the post about the knuckles is interesting.  Tires are loaded with sugar beet juice (common in michigan).  Next addition is a screen for the driver (read...wife) and a FOPS, oh and saw holsters.  Im using Bill M as my role model for this tractor.