iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Help with Tree farmer C5

Started by BCWoodsman, November 11, 2018, 12:32:24 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BCWoodsman

Hello Guys
I'm new to this Forum and would really appreciate some info regarding a C5 I just bought. I live pretty remote in northern British Columbia and just bought a 60's Model (at least that's what I was told) Can Car C5 with a Gearmatic winch. It's got an old GM Diesel ( yup, she's a loud one :D) with 4 speed. Now, I just bought the skidder to skid some logs around for some Cabins I'm building and also to plow the last 12 km of road to my place in the winter and I really don't know much about skidders. I had only brought the "Old Beast" to my place and after running it for no more then an Hour started to run into some problems. I could only run in 1st and 2nd Gear. In 3rd it would only go if I was on a flat or downhill stretch. I was driving on a logging road so it was even ground. Even in 2nd gear it would only go if I was already rolling a bit and had some momentum...... The guy I bought it from told me he had just put in a new clutch and that I might have to adjust it some more. Could that be the reason? Any Tips regarding adjusting the clutch (backing off the nut on the "rod"). Please excuse my Lack of knowledge. I'm just a Hunting Guide and Trapper and don't know much about Skidders, Tractors or the like. I'm gonna have to learn by doing so any input would be much appreciated. I'll post some Pics of the "Old Beast" soon

BCWoodsman

So, just to Summarize.... When I put into forward it doesn't move or only moves slowly no matter how much I rev it up. It works somewhat better in 1st and if not on an incline it works in 2nd but only if on flat or downhill ground

logman81

Sounds like a clutch slippage problem.
Precision Firewood & Logging

bushmechanic

You said the previous owner put a clutch in it... sounds to me like he must have installed the clutch disc in backwards and the thing is now slipping. Do you have any free play on the pedal? If you have a C5 from the 1960's it should be a B series. Were all here to help a guy out ;)

Logger RK

If the motor rev's up good & it doesn't move very good,I would think the clutch is slipping. When you first ran it,could it spin the tire's if you were pushing hard? I guess it's possible the linkage is adjusted so it won't let the clutch release all the way.

BCWoodsman

Well, I'm heading out to the Machine now and see if I can get it fixed. I hope it just needs a linkage adjustment. If the Guy put the disc in Backwards it'll be a SOB to fix, I think, since I wouldn't know where to start. Up here It's been snowing heavy and if I don't start plowing soon I won't get out even with snow chains on my Pick up. My closest neighbors are about 50 km away and the nearest town about 230km ;D. So the few logging roads up around here don't get plowed too often and the last 12 to 15 km wont get plowed at all. I welded up a 10' snow blade that mounts up to the skidder blade on an angle. Works like a charm. Anyways, thanks for your help so far. I'm glad I joined this Forum. I'll let y'all know how it worked tonight.

BCWoodsman

Quote from: bushmechanic on November 11, 2018, 06:06:11 AM
You said the previous owner put a clutch in it... sounds to me like he must have installed the clutch disc in backwards and the thing is now slipping. Do you have any free play on the pedal? If you have a C5 from the 1960's it should be a B series. Were all here to help a guy out ;)
Oh boy, I hope the Guy didn't put the disc in backwards. I really wouldn't know how to fix that. Would it be fixable out in the bush? I don't have any free play at all. It felt wrong even to me and I had planned to adjust the clutch anyways as soon as I had the skidder at my place. The Logger that delivered the skidder for me unloaded it about 25 Km from my place because the road was getting too rough for him. So I only wanted to drive it in to my place and then adjust the clutch but I didn't make it. It's now still about 10 km or so away and I'm heading there now to see if adjusting the linkage will do the job. Hopefully that's all it needs. To be honest, going by all the pictures I've seen my machine looks more like a C4 but it says that it's a C5. I don't know the exact year and cant find it by the serial number either. The seller wasn't sure either. But since it's an old Jimmy Diesel, I figure it's gotta be from before they became Detroit, right? Thanks for all your guys help. I'll keep you posted and post some photos tonight

BCWoodsman

Quote from: Logger RK on November 11, 2018, 07:26:42 AM
If the motor rev's up good & it doesn't move very good,I would think the clutch is slipping. When you first ran it,could it spin the tire's if you were pushing hard? I guess it's possible the linkage is adjusted so it won't let the clutch release all the way.
That's what I'm hoping because that's something that I think I can figure out how to do. I didn't yet use the machine for anything where its pushing hard but for the 30 min that I did push some snow the tires would be spinning just a bit at times

barbender

I ran an old Timberjack that the linkage was incorrectly adjusted on, not enough pedal freeplay. It did the same thing you're describing. Has the same effect as you not releasing the pedal all of the way. That's a simple fix, hopefully the clutch wasn't incorrectly installed!
Too many irons in the fire

Frozendozer

did you smell a burning clutch stink?     

mike_belben

We are talking manual trans and normal single disk clutch with manual linkage right?  Not a powershift or anything? 

Find the easiest link pin in the system to get at and remove it.  See how far the pressure plate travels with no linkage.  That resting point is where youll need to let it be for full clutch force.   

He may have put the disc on backward, throwout on backward or another common one is the throwout bearing tang isnt in the fingers of the throwout fork.. The fork is riding ontop the tang collar.  That MAY be fixable through an inspection cover with belly pan off but it wont be fun.  Youre a tough dude to live up there.  Youre gonna be a tough dude who knows alot more about tree farmer driveline when you get it done.  Bring a chunk of rebar that you can just barely bend and some hose clamps.  you MAY be able to pull floorboard, pop the linkage and rig up a temp hand clutch lever to get it homem. In the event the current linkage adjust is maxxed out. (My suspicion)


Detroit has been detroit since ww2 im pretty sure. 
Praise The Lord

BCWoodsman

So, I got the old Beast to my Place finally and I was even able to plow 12 km of road (wasn't much snow though, about a foot). You guys were right, the clutch was slipping and I just had to shorten the rod. But even after that it still wasn't going properly into gear. So, just to get her home, I just put it into gear buy pushing the lever (see picture where my finger is pointing) all the way down. Then she drove like a charm. Now that I have her at my place I will fix it so that she'll go into gear without me having to push down that lever (not sure what you call that lever on the pic). Any Ideas and tips? Should I shorten the rod even more, or may be it's just those prings that aren't strong enough anymore to pull that lever all the way down. Basically what it's doing so far is that when I let go of the clutch pedal that lever doesn't come far enough down yet to go into gear. But I can then by hand push that lever all the way down (the way it's sitting in the pic) and she'll go into gear.

 

 

BCWoodsman

 

Here is another picture of the linkage. The Top "Lever" (the one with the washers and on which the silver spring is attached to) had to come down further in order for the clutch to engage all the way. The Rod that comes down from that Lever goes through that Link/Lever looking thing at the bottom and then has a nut on it below that lower Lever. When I let go of the clutch the Lever doesn't come down all the way. I figured the rod had to be shorter between those 2 Levers so I tightened the Nut at the bottom end of the rod but it didn't help a lot. Like I already mentioned I think it might even just be that the Springs aren't tight enough anymore because I can pry the lever down and it goes in Gear. Well at least it's nothing serious and should be an easy fix. 

BCWoodsman

Quote from: mike_belben on November 12, 2018, 10:10:58 AM
We are talking manual trans and normal single disk clutch with manual linkage right?  Not a powershift or anything?

Find the easiest link pin in the system to get at and remove it.  See how far the pressure plate travels with no linkage.  That resting point is where youll need to let it be for full clutch force.  

He may have put the disc on backward, throwout on backward or another common one is the throwout bearing tang isnt in the fingers of the throwout fork.. The fork is riding ontop the tang collar.  That MAY be fixable through an inspection cover with belly pan off but it wont be fun.  Youre a tough dude to live up there.  Youre gonna be a tough dude who knows alot more about tree farmer driveline when you get it done.  Bring a chunk of rebar that you can just barely bend and some hose clamps.  you MAY be able to pull floorboard, pop the linkage and rig up a temp hand clutch lever to get it homem. In the event the current linkage adjust is maxxed out. (My suspicion)


Detroit has been detroit since ww2 im pretty sure.
Yup, we're talking manual trans. It's a 4 speed.
Stupid Question but when you're saying Maxxed out do you mean the rod needs to be longer and not shorter? What I mean is, should I back the nut at the bottom of the rod off more towards the end of the Thread? Because what I did was tighten the not more and therefore shorten the rod distance between the 2 Links. In any case I at least did get the Machine Home by putting it into gear by Hand just like you mentioned and now that she's at my cabin I can figure it out properly

mike_belben

Well bud i wish i could help you further but that was purely luck now that im seeing what youve got there.  A see a manual trans with a top loaded shifter and under that will be 2 or probably 3 rails and some forks that engage the slot in a sliding clutch thats locked to the intermediate shaft. Youll have  Low/ rev, 1/2, and 3/4.  Whether its "in gear" or not is entirely up to those forks pushing the sliding clutch on the intermediate shaft fully into one idle gear or the other (or none for neutral.)


Looks like this in unsynchronized or there will be brass tapered disks mixed in there on synchronized. 


Whatever you are pushing down there has me puzzled.  Id have to see it in person, no experience with tree farmers. This has a foot clutch that actuates that rod?  Or is it something else?  Is there any hydraulic atuff involved with the unseen end of that spring jive?

Praise The Lord

bushmechanic

It's a little hard to make out the linkages in the pic. Is this an all mechanical linkage system? Why I ask is because I have a C3 that has a hydraulic system, same thing as a brake system. It is definitely a C5B due to the planetaries and the Detroit engine. Your rims bolt on with twelve wheel nuts and a C4 bolts on with eight. Glad you got her going!

mike_belben

Wait is that the clutch rod itself?  Does it engage a lever in a rockshaft that goes across the bellhousing? Maybe the spring is to return it?  Hand clutch or foot? 
Praise The Lord

bushmechanic

Foot clutch, you can make out the shiny of the pedal in the lower left corner of the last pic.

mike_belben

Ok there it is.  So i think im seeing a push down pedal with a push down rod and a bootyfab pull back return spring to bring the pedal back up.   Close?  

What is that other spring return stuff with a pull cable? Winch control or something?  PTO or tcase range? 
Praise The Lord

BCWoodsman

Quote from: bushmechanic on November 12, 2018, 05:29:01 PM
It's a little hard to make out the linkages in the pic. Is this an all mechanical linkage system? Why I ask is because I have a C3 that has a hydraulic system, same thing as a brake system. It is definitely a C5B due to the planetaries and the Detroit engine. Your rims bolt on with twelve wheel nuts and a C4 bolts on with eight. Glad you got her going!
Yup it's an all mechanical linkage System. You got any Idea when they made the C5 b's? There must be a place I could find out the exact year for that thing with the Serial number. HAPPY BIRTHDAY by the way 

BCWoodsman

So, I adjusted the Linkage some more and put on new pull back springs and she now works great again. Thanks for the Help. It probably won't be too long until I might have to ask you all again lol. She's Old and gonna need more work soon

mike_belben

Good deal, go make some ruts! 
Praise The Lord

logman81

Glad you got it working! Now go try it out!
Precision Firewood & Logging

Frozendozer

always nice when it's a simple fix.  I love hearing a detfiot when she be screaming.  kinda addicting to tell you the truth

BCWoodsman

Today was the first time in a long while that I was glad it snowed. We got about another foot of Snow overnight so I had a good reason to take the Old Girl out and plow the full 12 km of road and it worked great. The set up with my Dozer Snowblade works a lot better then I expected and it only took me about 4 hours to plow in and out. I'm falling in love with the Old Girl ;D. The Day before yesterday I tried out the Winch and found out that I need to replace a Seal. Anybody have any Idea If I can still get the right Seal for my Gearmatic Model 19? Otherwise I'll just have find something else that'll work. 

Ed_K

 If it's the seal where the fluid goes into the side of the winch for operating the clutch bands. Drill an tap the hole in the end of the shaft and install a live swivel. That's what most of us gearmatic owners have done.
Ed K

jdatwood

Quote from: BCWoodsman on November 16, 2018, 02:59:53 AM
Today was the first time in a long while that I was glad it snowed. We got about another foot of Snow overnight so I had a good reason to take the Old Girl out and plow the full 12 km of road and it worked great. The set up with my Dozer Snowblade works a lot better then I expected and it only took me about 4 hours to plow in and out. I'm falling in love with the Old Girl ;D. The Day before yesterday I tried out the Winch and found out that I need to replace a Seal. Anybody have any Idea If I can still get the right Seal for my Gearmatic Model 19? Otherwise I'll just have find something else that'll work.
See post I did a couple months ago regarding the rotary coupling. It's factory original so quick and easy but inexpensive too. 
http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=106633.msg1662421#msg1662421

Thank You Sponsors!