Down angle

[Cruiser_79]

Why are Oregon and Stihl using different down angles for their chains? Usually i grind them with a 10 deg angle. Yeaterday I was testing a brand new 661 with new chains and was wondering why my old 660 was cutting slightly faster (with my self grinded chain). I checked the new chain on my grinder and found that the down angle of the new stihl  is 0. What is the use of the down angle on chains? It looks like my chains with a 10 deg down angle are more agressive and make longer chips, is that true and what is the difference with a down angle of 10 or 0 degrees?

[Air Lad]

Excellent question Cruiser
I don't have the answer except to say some tutorials say go flat 
and some say a slight upward angle (when filing)
I have also heard or seen 5 or 10 degrees
Someone will have the answers
Keen to know

[HolmenTree]

Stihl changed to 0° about 20 years ago. If you held a 2 in 1 file guide at 10° down the file would be too high.
It's Oregon vs Stihl German philosophy...I'll leave it at that. :D

Stihl once recommended 10° down for cutting wood with "frost" (frozen).

Bench grinding 10° down for years has been referred to as "offset grinding".

[barbender]

So what way do you file, Willard?

[mredden]

I get the best results filing full chisel (round) on a 10 degree angle but 0 degrees on semi chisel.

[John Mc]

I find it depends on the specific brand of the chain. I always sharpened my Oregon chains at a 10˚ down angle, since that is what they recommended. (I haven't checked whether that is still the case, but that's stil lthe way I file Oregon chain.) When tried another brand - I believe it was Total (might have been the WoodlandPro sold by Baileys?) - I used my same 10˚ down angle. I was not happy with how it cut. Someone on here (I'm thinking @Al_Smith ??) told me to try a 0˚ down angle. I tried it, and it cut better.

Thinking I had found a better sharpening technique, I tried the 0˚ angle on some of my Oregon chain. It cut worse. So for me, Oregon cut better with a 10˚ down angle the other cut better with 0˚. Both were full-chisel chains. I can't tell you what the difference was, but it was certainly there.

[HolmenTree]

So what way do you file, Willard?

I still file at 10° handle down, that's how I learned years ago.

[ehp]

ok, just my answer so take it for what its worth, I DONOT file like what the company that makes the chain says to do . I file to what makes the chain cut best in this type of wood at this temp. If round filing I will have more hook on tooth if its my falling saw , Saw on landing to buck trees into logs will have less hook and be straighter across on top plate but rackers will be set different as well also is the wood frozen or not plays into this . I myself never file 10 degrees up hill ever . My reason is I donot like how it leaves my side plate or my under plate on the tooth. I file a lot closer to 0 degrees . If its a semi chisel or any rounded corner tooth I file down hill . Filing a chain is not about your top plate angle or your racker height , its about the whole package . I watch lots of videos where the person has the rackers way to low and saw is jumping pretty hard in the cut . Boy she is cutting fast he says, truth be known its cutting slow , hard on the bar and chain, killing on the crank bearings and so on but like I said this is just me and like how my chains cut so I donot have to work hardly at all cutting trees .

[John Mc]

Ed - can you describe what it is about the side plate and underplate angle that you don't like? I've never compared what the underside looks between the two.

[Cruiser_79]

I am used to the 10 deg angle on my Oregon chains and my self grinded chains. But in fact it is an upper angle I guess, because I move the vice towards the user for a LH cutter? (Oregon 620). But my chains go quite okay for me, Think I keep it like this. Especially because its all soft wood what I saw. Is there a different way of filing and grinding for cutting hardwood? Do you still use full chisel or better to go for semi chisel?

[John Mc]

I am used to the 10 deg angle on my Oregon chains and my self grinded chains. But in fact it is an upper angle I guess, because I move the vice towards the user for a LH cutter? (Oregon 620). But my chains go quite okay for me, Think I keep it like this. Especially because its all soft wood what I saw. Is there a different way of filing and grinding for cutting hardwood? Do you still use full chisel or better to go for semi chisel?

I refer to it as a "down angle" because I hold the handle of the file lower. The point of the cutter ends up being on the high side. Is that how yours ends up?
The only thing I do differently for soft vs hardwoods is the depth gauge height. If I were doing a lot of softwood, I'd file them a tad lower. Since 95+% of what I cut is hardwood, I tend to fie all my chains that way, and just live with it when cutting softwood. (It still feels fast to me when cutting softwood, so I don't really notice that I might be missing out on a bit of performance.)
I'm sure I'm probably missing out a bit on performance by not customizing other aspects of the chain for soft vs hard vs frozen wood, as some of the real chain sharpening gurus do. However, since I'm more of a serious hobbyist rather than a full time pro, the luxury of choosing "easy/simple" wins out over "absolute best performance".

[Al_Smith]

 I believe it was Total (might have been the WoodlandPro sold by Baileys?) - I used my same 10˚ down angle. I was not happy with how it cut. Someone on here (I'm thinking @Al_Smith ??) told me to try a 0˚ down angle. I tried it, and it cut better.

It was that junk Baileys sold for 10 bucks a 72 driver 3/8 " round chisel chain .I only suggested it because "crofter " aka Frank Wright in Ontario told me the error of my ways . Like a dummy I bought 4 or 5 loops and every so often I stumble  over them .Worst chain I ever used in my life .I spent more  time filing it than I did cutting with it .< that's probably why it was on sale . :(

[John Mc]

I believe it was Total (might have been the WoodlandPro sold by Baileys?) - I used my same 10˚ down angle. I was not happy with how it cut. Someone on here (I'm thinking @Al_Smith ??) told me to try a 0˚ down angle. I tried it, and it cut better.

It was that junk Baileys sold for 10 bucks a 72 driver 3/8 " round chisel chain .I only suggested it because "crofter " aka Frank Wright in Ontario told me the error of my ways . Like a dummy I bought 4 or 5 loops and every so often I stumble  over them .Worst chain I ever used in my life .I spent more  time filing it than I did cutting with it .< that's probably why it was on sale . :(

I gave up on it when I ran into a batch of chains that apparently had quality control problems with their heat-treating. There were a couple of links and a couple of depth gauges that I just could not touch with a file (and I ruined several files trying). At first, I thought it was just the chains I had severely rocked, and brought to someone with a grinder to sharpen for me. However, when the next two chains I tried had the same problem new, right out of the box, they got demoted to stump cutting chains and I stopped buying them.

[mredden]

I file semi chisel on a 0 degree angle. It just seems to have a better cutting point that was

I file full chisel (round file) on a 10 degree angle. Seems to stay sharper longer

[Al_Smith]

Because I have many loops of chain hanging on nails I seldom buy any new ones .If I do however they will be either Oregon or Stihl .Fact if I can find one of those chains I mentioned it will be dirt cutter because I have to cut two stumps down below grade some time in the next few weeks .I'll Dremel that stuff won't even waste a good file on them .

[ehp]

When I get time I will try, I had surgery on the 15th so been going to doc and surgeon to make sure everything is going ok and at this point it is going well

[teakwood]

What did they repair?  I hope you're fine!

[ehp]

lower bottom jaw bone had a bad bone infection in it so they went in and hopefully got it cleaned up. Operated on my jaw bone, throat and nose so ended up with 300 or so stiches , 2 steel pins in jaw bone , 1/4 inch of bone ground off lower jawbone all the way around jawbone , gums cut inside and outside complete around and the part under your tongue completely removed then they stiched it back in after cutting the part that goes from you tongue to the bottom part under your tongue , Yep lots of fun 

[ehp]

oh ya, took all remaining teeth out as well so they could get inside bone

[hacknchop]

Wow , hoping & praying for a speedy recovery.   Tough time of year to be taking it easy but please do and direct all your energy and attention towards healing.

[barbender]

Sheesh Ed! That's horrible, praying for a quick recovery!

[Air Lad]

Ouch Mate !!!
If there is a positive to this, mabye you have been suffering bad pain and once the stress of the operations has settled you can  feel great again.
Hope you recover quick 

[teakwood]

sounds awful .

I hope you recover quick and take you time! I know we can't sit still and want to go out there again, but a good recovery is key

[thecfarm]

eph,oh my. :(  Yes,good luck to you.  300 stitches.

[HolmenTree]

Take it easy and recover Ed. 
That's major surgery and I can't imagine the pain. All the best to you!