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Author Topic: Gearmatic 19 issues....  (Read 4293 times)

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Offline Upnorth

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Gearmatic 19 issues....
« on: December 15, 2013, 06:21:58 PM »
Good day, new here so I apologize in advance if this is repetitive...

I have a 1980 Timberjack 240E with a Gearmatic winch, 19 I believe. It pulls strong, but is often very difficult to pull out in free spool. It holds well, but will often slip a little before it takes hold. My winch control locks back for free spool mode, but it sometimes feels as though it sticks and will be very difficult to engage into free spool mode. Other times it locks in no problem, but my free spool issue doesn't seem to change. Any advice would be appreciated. I'm at my witts end with this thing. I would love to have my Hercules winch back from my old 205 any day.....

On a second note, anyone out there ever swap out a Gearmatic for a Hercules/Eaton winch on a TJ? That's my next step......

Thanks guys,
TJ 205
TJ 240E
TJ 350A x 2
TJ 230D x 2

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2013, 06:59:45 PM »
Upnorth,welcome to the forum. Where up North?  ;D
This thread here will keep you busy while you are waiting for a reply.
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,13313.0.html
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline Upnorth

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2013, 07:06:51 PM »
NW Ontario, top end of Lake Superior.
TJ 205
TJ 240E
TJ 350A x 2
TJ 230D x 2

Offline Shotgun

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2013, 07:11:24 PM »
NW Ontario, top end of Lake Superior.

Welcome, Upnorth.  How about putting your general location in your profile.  Easy to do and then we all know and can easily check where you're located.
Joined The Forestry Forum 5 days before 9/11.

Offline Maine logger88

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2013, 01:09:18 AM »
I known nothing about the gearmatic other than it seems people either love them or hate them as far as swapping a Eaton Hercules I believe that all you would need is the winch the driveshaft and a valve body off a 230 225 etc I believe one would be strong enough for a 240 I have seen a couple with them on it but I don't believe there quite as strong as you're 19
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

Offline coxy

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2013, 06:20:06 AM »
a friend of mine was going to do it the other way  put a gearmatic  in but had to make all kinds of brackets  and there was some thing to do with the pto  speed   I know that the 19-119 sits down in side  and the Hercules sits on top  If you get the 19 working right is a great winch but they will drive ya NUTS ;D

Offline Upnorth

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2013, 06:56:39 AM »
Thanks fellas. The PTO speed seems to be the biggest hurdle with a conversion to a Hercules/Eaton. Going to thaw it out in the garage one more time and look for anything obvious.
TJ 205
TJ 240E
TJ 350A x 2
TJ 230D x 2

Offline coxy

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2013, 07:41:16 AM »
try cleaning the crap that is in and around the rod and spring  take a hack saw blade and go around the back side of the brake bands and also when you pull the cover off make sher that it pops  as in that cover is very very tight on the bearing if the cover comes off with out any force   the cover my be worn like mine I made a shim out of sheet metal  half moon only to be put on the bottom  under the bearing its a pain to keep in there but has worked 3 years on mine look at all the bearings to see how much play they have put a bar in there and see how far the shaft moves there will be some play even with new bearings you have to make your own mind up as to how much is to much hope this helps  its hard to tell some one what to do you never remember every thing ;D

Offline BHC

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2013, 09:34:55 AM »
the way your talking about the handle sounds like an issue i had a few years ago, it was solved by replacing the caps on the end of the master cly, my old caps were aluminum the new ones were steal, just worn out, pull them off and take a look see if something in it that shouldn't be. or bad wear marks on the pistons or caps.making them want to twist, if all looks good just put new rubber's in it , but if it looks bad the whole end was only $60 which was well worth $ fixing the problem and making everything work much better.
84 C5D Tree Farmer, 78 S8 International, Thompson Band Mill, M14 Foyley Belsaw

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2013, 07:08:43 PM »
 When taking the caps off,don't mix the parts from side to side.Look at the top outside above the brake band,there's a set screw for adjusting pressure on the band for free spool.If it's not touching the band,then check the shims on the end of the main shaft. May need to add some as if there isn't enough the end flange with the live swivel may be pushing the clutch pack up against the back of the main housing.
They are good winches but picky to keep working.I have to replace an aftermarket live swivel on mine,got 5yrs out of the old one.
Ed K

Offline coxy

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2013, 08:52:56 PM »
When taking the caps off,don't mix the parts from side to side.Look at the top outside above the brake band,there's a set screw for adjusting pressure on the band for free spool.If it's not touching the band,then check the shims on the end of the main shaft. May need to add some as if there isn't enough the end flange with the live swivel may be pushing the clutch pack up against the back of the main housing.
They are good winches but picky to keep working.I have to replace an aftermarket live swivel on mine,got 5yrs out of the old one.
good point on the shims for got that one

Offline Upnorth

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2013, 09:41:23 PM »
Thanks Gents, brought it inside today to thaw out. Got sidetracked plowing after a snowstorm today, hope to get it apart tomorrow. Appreciate the help here.
TJ 205
TJ 240E
TJ 350A x 2
TJ 230D x 2

Offline DDDfarmer

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2013, 10:06:44 PM »
Had problems with my winch a few years back.  lots of info on this site in regards to issues and repairs if you search them out.  I thought my winch was fine before I had to open it up due to a failed pushrod but after I had reset to specs...wow. 

I found the winch very simple to work on. Just remember the live swivel is a LEFT hand thread.  I repeat LEFT hand thread.  It is a small pipe insert.. very easy to twist off ;D  I have seen it done, and no wasn't me ;D

Here is a link to the repair manual for the winch,

http://www.paccarwinch.com/pdf/J358J.PDF

If you open the winch up, clean and set to specs I think you will be happy with that winch

Here is the link to the paccar winch site for other models.

http://www.paccarwinch.com/manualsanddocs/manualsanddocs.aspx
Treefarmer C5C with cancar 20 (gearmatic 119) winch, Husky 562xp 576xp chainsaws

Offline coxy

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2013, 10:31:01 PM »
Had problems with my winch a few years back.  lots of info on this site in regards to issues and repairs if you search them out.  I thought my winch was fine before I had to open it up due to a failed pushrod but after I had reset to specs...wow. 

I found the winch very simple to work on. Just remember the live swivel is a LEFT hand thread.  I repeat LEFT hand thread.  It is a small pipe insert.. very easy to twist off ;D  I have seen it done, and no wasn't me ;D

Here is a link to the repair manual for the winch,

http://www.paccarwinch.com/pdf/J358J.PDF

If you open the winch up, clean and set to specs I think you will be happy with that winch

Here is the link to the paccar winch site for other models.

http://www.paccarwinch.com/manualsanddocs/manualsanddocs.aspx
what do you mean about the live swivel  and left handed thread  I dont  have any left handed threads on any of mine I have 4 of them do you have any pics  thanks

Offline John Woodworth

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2013, 04:03:18 AM »
Do as Coxy says, the problem is clearance for the band to move and has nothing to do with the control unit.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

Offline DDDfarmer

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2013, 08:45:31 AM »
 

 

Live swivel with the left handed thread, works against the rotation of the winch.  After looking into the book it is not shown there like this.  Thinking back I think lumberjack48 mentioned there was also banjo type fittings there before he changed them to the live-swivel. 

The reason I couldn't free wheel mine was the clutch hub and clutch lever which should rotate easy were gummed up.  Once the clutch was engaged it could not release as it should.  There was never any problem with the master, I did rebuild at the same time tho.  Yet before I opened the winch up I wasted time trying to " fix" the master cylinder.

On my winch the push-rod between the drive bands had been replaced with just a bolt and no way to adjust, under a heavy pull it failed and bent.

Business card works good as the feeler guage and is very close to the clearance required.  I assembled the hydraulics before installing the cover in order to bleed out the clutch cylinder, has to be bleed at the top then turned to the bottom in order to remove the swivel to install the cover.
Treefarmer C5C with cancar 20 (gearmatic 119) winch, Husky 562xp 576xp chainsaws

Offline coxy

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2013, 12:08:56 PM »
I have the long nipple with the bearings on it    learnt some thing new today  but the live swivel is that only on the cancar winch  never seen it on any of the gearmatics  around  here   thanks for the pics ;D

Offline Upnorth

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2013, 08:17:10 PM »
Believe I found the problem,....the secondary brake band had disintegrated, leaving a handful of brake lining in the case, with pieces jammed between the drum and band. Sent it away today to be re-lined. Everything else look ok.

Thanks for all the help,
TJ 205
TJ 240E
TJ 350A x 2
TJ 230D x 2

Offline treeslayer2003

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2013, 10:41:40 PM »
yep, they bad about it. how much cheaper is it to reline as opposed to a new band?

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues....
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2013, 06:09:17 PM »
 After 5 yrs of use the liveswivel got to rusty to keep orings in it.So I bought a new one made of stainless steel w/grease fitting,  $190.  :o it better last the rest of the skidder's lifetimes.
Ed K


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