Gearmatic 19 issues....

Upnorth · December 15, 2013, 06:21:58 PM

Good day, new here so I apologize in advance if this is repetitive...

I have a 1980 Timberjack 240E with a Gearmatic winch, 19 I believe. It pulls strong, but is often very difficult to pull out in free spool. It holds well, but will often slip a little before it takes hold. My winch control locks back for free spool mode, but it sometimes feels as though it sticks and will be very difficult to engage into free spool mode. Other times it locks in no problem, but my free spool issue doesn't seem to change. Any advice would be appreciated. I'm at my witts end with this thing. I would love to have my Hercules winch back from my old 205 any day.....

On a second note, anyone out there ever swap out a Gearmatic for a Hercules/Eaton winch on a TJ? That's my next step......

Thanks guys,

thecfarm · December 15, 2013, 06:59:45 PM

Upnorth,welcome to the forum. Where up North? ;D
This thread here will keep you busy while you are waiting for a reply.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,13313.0.html

Upnorth · December 15, 2013, 07:06:51 PM

NW Ontario, top end of Lake Superior.

Shotgun · December 15, 2013, 07:11:24 PM

Quote from: Upnorth on December 15, 2013, 07:06:51 PM
NW Ontario, top end of Lake Superior.

Welcome, Upnorth. How about putting your general location in your profile. Easy to do and then we all know and can easily check where you're located.

Maine logger88 · December 16, 2013, 01:09:18 AM

I known nothing about the gearmatic other than it seems people either love them or hate them as far as swapping a Eaton Hercules I believe that all you would need is the winch the driveshaft and a valve body off a 230 225 etc I believe one would be strong enough for a 240 I have seen a couple with them on it but I don't believe there quite as strong as you're 19

coxy · December 16, 2013, 06:20:06 AM

a friend of mine was going to do it the other way put a gearmatic in but had to make all kinds of brackets and there was some thing to do with the pto speed I know that the 19-119 sits down in side and the Hercules sits on top If you get the 19 working right is a great winch but they will drive ya NUTS ;D

Upnorth · December 16, 2013, 06:56:39 AM

Thanks fellas. The PTO speed seems to be the biggest hurdle with a conversion to a Hercules/Eaton. Going to thaw it out in the garage one more time and look for anything obvious.

coxy · December 16, 2013, 07:41:16 AM

try cleaning the crap that is in and around the rod and spring take a hack saw blade and go around the back side of the brake bands and also when you pull the cover off make sher that it pops as in that cover is very very tight on the bearing if the cover comes off with out any force the cover my be worn like mine I made a shim out of sheet metal half moon only to be put on the bottom under the bearing its a pain to keep in there but has worked 3 years on mine look at all the bearings to see how much play they have put a bar in there and see how far the shaft moves there will be some play even with new bearings you have to make your own mind up as to how much is to much hope this helps its hard to tell some one what to do you never remember every thing ;D

BHC · December 16, 2013, 09:34:55 AM

the way your talking about the handle sounds like an issue i had a few years ago, it was solved by replacing the caps on the end of the master cly, my old caps were aluminum the new ones were steal, just worn out, pull them off and take a look see if something in it that shouldn't be. or bad wear marks on the pistons or caps.making them want to twist, if all looks good just put new rubber's in it , but if it looks bad the whole end was only $60 which was well worth $ fixing the problem and making everything work much better.

Ed_K · December 16, 2013, 07:08:43 PM

When taking the caps off,don't mix the parts from side to side.Look at the top outside above the brake band,there's a set screw for adjusting pressure on the band for free spool.If it's not touching the band,then check the shims on the end of the main shaft. May need to add some as if there isn't enough the end flange with the live swivel may be pushing the clutch pack up against the back of the main housing.
They are good winches but picky to keep working.I have to replace an aftermarket live swivel on mine,got 5yrs out of the old one.

coxy · December 16, 2013, 08:52:56 PM

Quote from: Ed_K on December 16, 2013, 07:08:43 PM
When taking the caps off,don't mix the parts from side to side.Look at the top outside above the brake band,there's a set screw for adjusting pressure on the band for free spool.If it's not touching the band,then check the shims on the end of the main shaft. May need to add some as if there isn't enough the end flange with the live swivel may be pushing the clutch pack up against the back of the main housing.
They are good winches but picky to keep working.I have to replace an aftermarket live swivel on mine,got 5yrs out of the old one.

good point on the shims for got that one

Upnorth · December 16, 2013, 09:41:23 PM

Thanks Gents, brought it inside today to thaw out. Got sidetracked plowing after a snowstorm today, hope to get it apart tomorrow. Appreciate the help here.

DDDfarmer · December 16, 2013, 10:06:44 PM

Had problems with my winch a few years back. lots of info on this site in regards to issues and repairs if you search them out. I thought my winch was fine before I had to open it up due to a failed pushrod but after I had reset to specs...wow.

I found the winch very simple to work on. Just remember the live swivel is a LEFT hand thread. I repeat LEFT hand thread. It is a small pipe insert.. very easy to twist off ;D I have seen it done, and no wasn't me ;D

Here is a link to the repair manual for the winch,

http://www.paccarwinch.com/pdf/J358J.PDF

If you open the winch up, clean and set to specs I think you will be happy with that winch

Here is the link to the paccar winch site for other models.

http://www.paccarwinch.com/manualsanddocs/manualsanddocs.aspx

coxy · December 16, 2013, 10:31:01 PM

Quote from: DDDfarmer on December 16, 2013, 10:06:44 PM
Had problems with my winch a few years back. lots of info on this site in regards to issues and repairs if you search them out. I thought my winch was fine before I had to open it up due to a failed pushrod but after I had reset to specs...wow.

I found the winch very simple to work on. Just remember the live swivel is a LEFT hand thread. I repeat LEFT hand thread. It is a small pipe insert.. very easy to twist off ;D I have seen it done, and no wasn't me ;D

Here is a link to the repair manual for the winch,

http://www.paccarwinch.com/pdf/J358J.PDF

If you open the winch up, clean and set to specs I think you will be happy with that winch

Here is the link to the paccar winch site for other models.

http://www.paccarwinch.com/manualsanddocs/manualsanddocs.aspx

what do you mean about the live swivel and left handed thread I dont have any left handed threads on any of mine I have 4 of them do you have any pics thanks

John Woodworth · December 17, 2013, 04:03:18 AM

Do as Coxy says, the problem is clearance for the band to move and has nothing to do with the control unit.

DDDfarmer · December 17, 2013, 08:45:31 AM

Live swivel with the left handed thread, works against the rotation of the winch. After looking into the book it is not shown there like this. Thinking back I think lumberjack48 mentioned there was also banjo type fittings there before he changed them to the live-swivel.

The reason I couldn't free wheel mine was the clutch hub and clutch lever which should rotate easy were gummed up. Once the clutch was engaged it could not release as it should. There was never any problem with the master, I did rebuild at the same time tho. Yet before I opened the winch up I wasted time trying to " fix" the master cylinder.

On my winch the push-rod between the drive bands had been replaced with just a bolt and no way to adjust, under a heavy pull it failed and bent.

Business card works good as the feeler guage and is very close to the clearance required. I assembled the hydraulics before installing the cover in order to bleed out the clutch cylinder, has to be bleed at the top then turned to the bottom in order to remove the swivel to install the cover.

coxy · December 17, 2013, 12:08:56 PM

I have the long nipple with the bearings on it learnt some thing new today but the live swivel is that only on the cancar winch never seen it on any of the gearmatics around here thanks for the pics ;D

Upnorth · December 20, 2013, 08:17:10 PM

Believe I found the problem,....the secondary brake band had disintegrated, leaving a handful of brake lining in the case, with pieces jammed between the drum and band. Sent it away today to be re-lined. Everything else look ok.

Thanks for all the help,

treeslayer2003 · December 20, 2013, 10:41:40 PM

yep, they bad about it. how much cheaper is it to reline as opposed to a new band?

Ed_K · December 21, 2013, 06:09:17 PM

After 5 yrs of use the liveswivel got to rusty to keep orings in it.So I bought a new one made of stainless steel w/grease fitting, $190.

it better last the rest of the skidder's lifetimes.

Upnorth · January 02, 2014, 09:38:00 AM

Well here goes....Pulled the winch apart, found the secondary lining had come apart causing it to jam between the band and the drum. As said above, sent it away to be re-lined. BE CAREFUL here......the re-lining shop apparently didn't check the specs, put a thicker lining on it than it should have been. Extremely tight fit through the housing, once in place it was unable to be pinned in place as the extra lining thickness changed the circumference. Long story, but took 20 hours + and eventually had to remove the band via torch. Factory OEM parts are expensive, like divorces, because they are worth it. Winch is now removed from the machine and awaiting parts, again.

coxy · January 02, 2014, 10:07:37 PM

ya no what you mean done that but if the winch drum is worn bad you can put over size brake bands in but it is a pain to get over the ridges I pay 475 bucks for the two brake bands and its been years maybe 15 or so since I put clutch band in any of my skidders hope you get it fixed

coxy · January 02, 2014, 10:19:10 PM

for got some thing if you buy new bands don't forget to measure the linings for the next time you want them relined and wright it down some place safe don't be like me forget where you put it :D :D good luck

Upnorth · January 14, 2014, 06:50:37 AM

She's all done and works like new. In case anyone cares to know, the OEM brake lining on the secondary (wide) band is .175". My relining came back at .250 which caused the grief. Ordered a new one from Forestry Parts, worked like a charm. BTW, if anyone else replaces thier brake bands, it may not seem to work at first. I couldn't freespool initially until I ran it in and out (slipping the winch) several times. After doing so, it set just right and freespools effortlessly and pulls and holds like unreal.

Thanks for all the help fella's!