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I got lucky

Started by jimdad07, April 30, 2017, 01:53:25 PM

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jimdad07

I've been looking for pine logs for my timber frame barn build and got real lucky to find a place about 40 miles south of me I could buy and harvest the logs myself for a fraction of the price of having them delivered.  Made my first trip out there yesterday and cut twelve excellent logs for my sawmill.  Next weekend I'll bring them home.

https://youtu.be/VWHi3jRo-mQ
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

Den-Den

Nice video, please take a few pics loading the logs
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

jimdad07

Quote from: Den-Den on April 30, 2017, 07:29:38 PM
Nice video, please take a few pics loading the logs

I'll get plenty loading and milling them.  This was a great deal, doesn't get any better.
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

derhntr

Nice pine logs. If you have not done it yet youtube advanced felling. Some great techniques. Think Stihl has a good one.
2006 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 with command control (I hate walking in sawdust)
US Army National Guard (RET) SFC

jimdad07

Quote from: derhntr on April 30, 2017, 09:30:20 PM
Nice pine logs. If you have not done it yet youtube advanced felling. Some great techniques. Think Stihl has a good one.

I really need to.  I've been cutting timber here and there for a lot of years but never steadily.  I seem to do better on the tricky ones, maybe I take more time with them.  YouTube is a great place to learn for sure.
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

jimdad07

Quote from: derhntr on April 30, 2017, 09:30:20 PM
Nice pine logs. If you have not done it yet youtube advanced felling. Some great techniques. Think Stihl has a good one.

Watched a few last night and you are right, there are some great ones to watch.  A lot of it is stuff that I really should know but you get into a habit of doing what works for you and just because it has worked doesn't make it right or safe.  The next time I head out I'll be trying out some of what I learned.
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

derhntr

I used to fell the same way you videoed, I now do a lot of plunge cuts leaving a front hinge and a back strap. Couple wedges in plunge cut at the back strap then cut the back strap.  Been able to pull trees 90 degrees from natural lean. Nice to save other trees from damage. This method I believe generate faster fall speed and no notch to close up.

Just be safe. Oh and great clarity on the videos. I enjoyed them. 
2006 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 with command control (I hate walking in sawdust)
US Army National Guard (RET) SFC

jimdad07

I'm glad you liked them.  I see the concern with barber chairs on that first one.  If you notice I did my back cut from one side instead of strait across.  That was taught to me by an old timer years ago.  The idea is to cut out the center first and leave a triangle of holding wood one the opposite side, that negates the area that is most likely to barber chair.  There are so many techniques out there and so many ways to get the job done, always good to learn more.
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

woodworker9

Nice video and great stand of trees to choose from.  I'm learning how to take down trees correctly and safely myself.  I just bought a new chainsaw today...woohoo!

I subscribed to your channel, and will mention you on my channel. 

Cheers!

Jeff
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

jimdad07

Quote from: woodworker9 on May 01, 2017, 06:54:04 PM
Nice video and great stand of trees to choose from.  I'm learning how to take down trees correctly and safely myself.  I just bought a new chainsaw today...woohoo!

I subscribed to your channel, and will mention you on my channel. 

Cheers!

Jeff

If you're Jeff Heath Vintage Workshop I'm watching you right now over a hot cup of coffee.  I love the shop and vintage tools, I'm actually into old cast iron and I plan to stock the new shop with those types of tools once it's built.  You're doing a good job with your channel.
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

Jim_Rogers

I just wanted to say, that there are some things that I would do differently. Not bashing you, just trying to teach you what the old timers taught me.

First of all you're wearing chaps. I loved my chaps because they were built in "kneeling pads".
Your stumps are way too tall. You're leaving a lot of good wood on the stump.
When you're cutting logs to length and you see a defect that you want to avoid, and you say to yourself: "if I only had 6 more inches or a foot more of log, I'd be out of this mess!"  You'll wish you had cut your stumps lower.

It can be difficult at times with a short bar saw, but the lower you cut your stumps the better logs you'll get.

The old timer told me, place you saw on the ground, roll it over onto it's side and start cutting. That is how low he wanted me to cut my stumps.
I really never went that low, but ankle high is good. You can always trim the "bell" of the bottom log after it is down. Or on the mill before you saw it up.

Next, you need to learn how to "buck" a log. Cross cutting it so that you don't split the logs. The lower one or the upper one. You need to do it correctly so that they don't split. I don't think I saw any of yours split but the method I used, I never split a log.

I don't know if it is shown on YouTube or not, as I learned it back in the 80's by reading a book.

I would love to show it to you with a YouTube video but I don't do any logging any more.
Too busy with everything else in life here at the mill. I can explain it more if you wish, just let me know.

Trimming branches.
I noticed that you were cutting of the "green branches" with one cut. Doing it this way you can often get your saw stuck. We always used the two cut method. Cut the branch once about 4 to 6" away from the trunk of the tree and let it fall to the ground. Then trim the stub off the log with a nice clean flush cut. It makes rolling the log easier and less "anchors" or dirt plows, when dragging it to the landing. If you are dragging them.
We always cut to length in the woods and "carried" the logs out to the landing so that they stayed clean. We would either use the backhoe to lift it up and carry it or set it on a scoot and drag the scoot out. A scoot is a log sled.

Low slash, it is usually best if you cut up the tops so that the slash is lower than 4'. We would usually cut it up so that it was fairly low to the ground. That make is easier to decay and disappear.

Top log diameter. Up here in the northeast we usually cut the tree up until we get to the top log diameter of 8", 10" on hardwoods.
To determine the log diameter we took a piece of plywood, say 12" square and cut out a notch in it so it looked like a "U". The distance between the two parts of the "U" would be 8" and the "U" sides would be 2" or maybe a bit more. Maybe a 14" square piece of plywood.
Then when you're limbing out your tops you try and slide the "U" over the log. When it drops on or over that is 8" diameter. Above that is usually junk. Below that, to the stump cut is saw logs.
Now we never just cut it off when we slid it over. We'd wait until we have measured out all the logs from the stump cut to the plywood "caliper". Sometimes your last log may need a few inches to get your "trim" beyond the caliper. Then we cut it off.

We always, limbed it out, from the stump cut to the top diameter, and then sighted it from bottom to top and then from top to bottom before decided where the bends in the tree were. We were going to use the bends in the tree trunk as our "cut off" points. Making the "log cuts" where the bend in the tree is makes the straightest logs.

Also, when you have a sweep in the log, put it in the big end of the log. Being at the big end it will be cut off when squaring up your cant on the mill.  The bend at the narrow end of the log makes it difficult to get a good timber out of the log.

These are just of few things I felt like passing on to you as "helpful" hints. When you have a chance try some of them and see if it helps you to make better logs.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to get it all down.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

woodworker9

Jim

I appreciate all you just wrote, and would truly love to learn as much as I can from you and others.  If you want to post it in another thread, I'd be reading for sure, as I'm just starting to cut trees down for sawmilling for the first time in my life. 

I'd love to know more about correctly bucking logs, so I'm all ears....actually, eyes, since this is a computer.  :D
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

woodworker9

Quote from: jimdad07 on May 01, 2017, 09:47:44 PM
Quote from: woodworker9 on May 01, 2017, 06:54:04 PM
Nice video and great stand of trees to choose from.  I'm learning how to take down trees correctly and safely myself.  I just bought a new chainsaw today...woohoo!

I subscribed to your channel, and will mention you on my channel. 

Cheers!

Jeff

If you're Jeff Heath Vintage Workshop I'm watching you right now over a hot cup of coffee.  I love the shop and vintage tools, I'm actually into old cast iron and I plan to stock the new shop with those types of tools once it's built.  You're doing a good job with your channel.

That's me.....Jeff Heath The Vintage Workshop.  I'm Jeff, and nice to meet you.  I watched 4 of your video's this morning over a hot cup of coffee.  I love the timberframe, and I'm sponging all the info I can because I'm going to be building another shop soon, as well as a house up north, and they will both be timber frames.  I'm a hard core DIY guy, so I've got to learn the right way....
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

jimdad07

Jim I always appreciate your wisdom, it has served me time and again.  I can explain some of the methods I am using and maybe they will make more sense.
1. The tall stumps are for two reasons, the big one is I put my back out hard a couple of weeks ago and bending that low is still not easy, don't want to lock up and not be able to move fast if I have to.  The second reason is I goofed up not bringing my saw with the 28" bar.  I like to make my back cut as one cut as a matter of my comfort level. 
2. Bucking the logs to avoid splitting them is something that I've been very lucky with over the years.  That last tree is a good example.  You notice I wedged the top cut before there was any pinching of the saw?  I do that to avoid an undercut and I've noticed over the years that I can get much more cotrol over the cut that way.  Where I made a mistake that I would have ruined a log like red oak, ash or white oak was on the second log out of that tree.  No support under the other end so when I got closer to the ground I could've split it.
3. The limbing.  The limbs standing strait up I do a single cut on the side opposite the lean of the branch.  The branches under tension always get two cuts to avoid the pinch.
4. The amount of logs from the tree.  I could get more out of these trees but the property owner is allowing me to take the best logs out of the trees for my barn and they're going to have the rest milled for themselves.  This could not work out better for me.

Don't worry about offending me Jim, I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and always take valuable information from what you post.  Your information is what gave me the confidence to take this barn on, now I have to get the darn thing up the rest of the way!
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

jimdad07

I forgot to add, Jim I would love to hear your process for bucking logs.  A person can't learn too many methods of getting a job done.
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

derhntr

2006 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 with command control (I hate walking in sawdust)
US Army National Guard (RET) SFC

jimdad07

Thanks for sharing, that's a good technique. 
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

Jim_Rogers

In the above video, from 10:48 to 15 minutes is the method I use, almost all the time to cut the logs to lengths and not need wedges to hold the wood from binding.
Saw on top and over to vertical, then you can under cut to drop if top bind is present.
If bottom bind is present after doing the vertical cut do the under cut then finish with the top level cut. Have your hold wood to the best you can in the middle of the log and be as small as needed. This will/should prevent splitting the log.
To make sure your cuts are aligned, after you do your vertical cut you can sight the kerf and see the bar under the log before you pull the trigger. This helps to make the cuts flush with each other.

Also, I always "trim" the butt of the tree after felling to remove the excess wood beyond the back cut, thus making the butt of the bottom log flush all the way across, except for the felling wedge. Flush cut butt logs look nice when selling to a mill.

Another point to understand is "corner nipping" when felling.
Corner nipping prevents "root tear".

I have, I think posted pictures of "root tear" before.

But here are two shots:



 



 

A root tear not only makes the butt log look bad, it can cause the tree to swing out of line from where you want it to fall.

So you nip the corners so that the butt log is separated from the stump at the surface of the trunk. I only nip in about half the bar. Corner nips are usually at the same height as the back cut.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

jimdad07

Thanks for posting Jim.  Root tear looks terrible for sure.  There are times though when you can't nip the corners.  If you noticed the first tree was leaning decently.  I wanted to pull it a little away from the side I was cutting, that's why I didn't go strait across the back cut but came in from one side and pivoted the saw in from that side.  It leaves more holding wood on the side I wanted to pull as well as cuts the middle out enough to negate the dreaded barber chair. 
I've had a few comments on bore cutting that one.  There are many methods out there and a lot of good ones.  The method I used is covered in the BC Fallers series on Youtube in their basic falling technique video series.  That said I would not do it that way on a strait grained hardwood because of barber chairs.

Again thanks for posting Jim.
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

jimdad07

Going to pick up my logs tomorrow.  Might drop some more for rafters and such.  Not sure if I'll be able to run the camera much, supposed to rain again tomorrow but I'll get some pictures no matter what.
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

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