Any other type blade for Cedar ??

[Hbarker]

Hey fellas.. I have a small bandsaw mill. running a 1 1/2  13 foot blade recommended by menominee for cutting cedar..
However.. I can only seem to cut about 3 logs .. and Bam ,, blades to dull to cut anymore. I use water and pinesol for lube.. and check every log for wire and nails.
seems like I should get way more cutting done on a blade ??
I still have a stack of logs, and at this rate I will need about 30 more blades to complete my cutting.. I have been thru 8 blades and can not find any one in my area to sharpen them.
I was wondering if a more expensive by-metal blade would hold out longer??
or if the ones they are selling me are just no good?
Thanks in advance..
Tyler,TX

[Tom]

HBarker,
what kind of cedar is proposing the problem

Eastern Red (which is a juniper) is notorious for its abrasivness.  Still, you should be getting at least 300 boardfeet to a sharpening.

I would find that Eastern red cedar came apart so easily, though brittle, that I would over-extend a band and break them due to heat because I was sawing after they got dull.

The only thing that comes to mind is that you might be sawing too slowly and using up the tips of your teeth without getting the full use of their gullet capabilities.

Dry cedar cuts hard, especially the sapwood.  That is just how it is.   Cut it fresh off of the stump and you get prettier wood and it's easier on the bands too.

[Hbarker]

Hiyas Tom,
Yeah ,, This cedar has been down for about a year.
it is eastern Red Cedar.
I may be cutting to slow,. but any faster and it binds up and stops spinning.
I may have hit a nail,.. led shot? or something with each log and never seen it ,, and my metal detector did not sound off on it..
300 bf.. hmmm.....I am not even getting close to that.

Any chance of running a metal bi-blade in the cedar for longer periods of time?

[Tom]

My personal opinion is that bi-meal bands won't solve the problem.

If you have hit something in the log, you should be able to see remnants of it on the face of the tooth.  It will appear as a curl of metal and can be popped off with a file, screwdriver, old knife or the like.  You may still have a dull tooth, but it should cut better.

If your band is binding, you have other problems.  Perhaps you need more set in the band. Perhaps your band isn't cutting straight.  Check out your alignment carefully and make certain that band is running true to the bed. 

What kind of mill is it?   13'2" is a standard length of band and most small mills that run it are designed for 1 1/4" wide bands.  It could be that your guides and bandwheels aren't set up for the wider band and the band is cupping.  Your tension could be too little, or your drive wheel belts too loose.  Either of these two things could cause the band to slip in the cut and slow down.

Dry Eastern Red Cedar is going to be a challenge anyway.  Playing with the blade lube is definitely a choice for looking for the problem.  Run the band anywhere from dry to a full flow.  You may find that the amount of lubricant (or water) will make a difference.  Just don't let it gum up.

[ely]

have the logs still got the bark on them, if so try peeling it off before you saw them. cedar that i saw has alot of dirt and sand in the bark, this is what shortens my band sharpness considerably. may be a combination of sand and poor bands.

you say mennomme reccommended them, did you buy from them. or someplace else. i know a silly ? but still.

[Hbarker]

Yeah the bark is a bit nasty,, removed most of it before cutting..

Yes purchased from mennomme.

i did forget to mention,, fussy stuff on the boards out the outward side of my cuts.. ,,, this mean dull?

[ely]

it does for me, the fuzzy stuff you are talking about.
drag your thumbnail on a tooth backwards and see how sharp the band is. it should grab and hold the thumbnail instead of letting it slide along. i have recieved bands in the mail before that needed to be sharpened before use. ( not from menommee) wish you was closer to me . i know i can make those bands cut like a dream, especially in cedar.

[Larry]

With less hook angle the blade will stay sharp longer...and produce more lumber at a slower pace.  With that in mind I have been using the WM 7 degree band on small ERC.  A lot of the logs I'm cutting date back to the January 09 ice storm and some are older.  Most are small in diameter like 8 to 12" and 8' long.  It takes a lot of sawing through dirty bark for the board foot count to go up with logs that small...but I still hitting on 300 bf per band.

Not for sure on the lube question...I've never used any on ERC...I bet that Texas cedar has a lot more grits in it than I'm used to so it may require lotsa lube. ;D

[logwalker]

You might consider using woodmizer's  or Cooksaw's resharp service. It is convenient and not too bad on cost. Do you know what kind of blades you bought? Joe

[Hbarker]

Thanks for the replies guys..
lenox blades is what I got,,
Also looks like I ordered 1 1/2 when had been running 1 1/4
I thought they may cut straiter.. I think I will order some of those 1 1/4 next time..
Last night as I was running my last new blade. caught it on a stub while returning the saw head to position  and Be *DanG,,, pulled it of,, it caught the guard and munched about 6 teeth .. hate it when that happens !!!

I changed back to ivory soap and water... i think it seems to be slickier than pinesol??

[ladylake]

Did you change your guides for the 1-1/2" blades, if not that could cause problems .   Steve

[stumpy]

I saw alot of WR Cedar utility poles.  I find that Woodmaster B (bi-metal) blades work the best.  They are expensive, and I haven't done a financial comparison, but it sure is nice to be able to saw much longer before changing blades.  They hold their sharpness much longer.  They also make be more careful on pulling nails, cause I don't want to ruin one those.

[Magicman]

You might consider using woodmizer's  or Cooksaw's resharp service. It is convenient and not too bad on cost. Do you know what kind of blades you bought? Joe 

Just as information, Lenox blades can't be sent to WM for resharpening.  They only do WM blades.

[LeeB]

There is a saw shop in Tyler or very close by tat sells Lenox blades. I think the name is Smith Saw Shop. I used to buy blades from them a long time ago. I believe they also do resharp. You should be getting way more BF than what you are. I cut 300bf of 2 year old cedar yesterday on a blade that had hit 2 nails and then sawed 300bf of oak before the cedar. Good blade, Don't usually get that much even without the nails.

[LeeB]

http://www.yellowbook.com/profile/smith-sawmill-service_1539435927.html?addressId=1&showads=true

Took a little bit of searching but I finally found the place. Try the link above. I haven't used them in many years so I can't tell you about them now. Good service and nice folks back then though.

[Cedarman]

We run WM    1 1/4 x .042 x10 degree, no lube.  Saw small to big, some  16" and bigger.  300 feet give or take sounds about right.   Texas logs may have more silica in them.  I know Oklahoma logs have more grit in butt log.
For the Baker scragg we run Simonds  1 1/4  10 degree.  Can saw about 4 hours or 120  5 " to 12" logs  Each band does 2 faces and we take some lumber off big logs so we can go through a bunch of logs.  No lube.
Logs anywhere from cut down that day to down 5 years.  Green logs do cut better.

For the WM resaw we run 1 1/4 x .042 x 10 degree 205".   Run 4 slabs per minute for hours and hours with no blade change and no lube.  Again WM blades.

Try different make blades, make sure belts tight, tension right, blade tilt right.  Grit off logs.

[LeeB]

I run and prefer woodmiser blades myself. The man mentioned Lenox blades so I was trying to be impartial and mostly recomending a resharp service close to him.

[Hbarker]

thanks folks for all the info..

one more thing .. I do have a lot of saw dust left inside my cut each pass ..
its not all leaving the cut.. We sweep each board before stacking.
Whats the deal here?

[Larry]

Too much set, sawing to slow, or not nuff horsepower.  That's the beauty of sharpening your own bands...you can tweak them for your mill, your sawing habits, and your logs.

Just a thought...long time ago I used Lenox Woodmaster C 1-1/4" bands.  The actual width was 1-3/8" do to some metric mumble jumble.  I wonder what your 1-1/2" bands actually measure?

[LeeB]

If the dust is hot and tight packed, thhere is too much set in the blade or you are going to slow and the dust is escaping from the gullet. Loose and cool dust is normal. Larry beat me to it.

[Hbarker]

probably to slow, because of to little hp?  :D