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Started by Peakebrook, November 09, 2008, 07:53:17 AM

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Peakebrook

Now that I have roof over the mill, it is time to start thinking about a laser again.  Reviewing the archives of old post has been helpful, but not much talk recently.

The two units that seem best fit for my mill would be Cemar electric or Lasersight by Woodmizer.

The Cemar electric laser is mounted on the outside of the blade housing, illuminating the end and right side of the log.  For my set-up, stray laser light would be away from any helpers.  I do have concerns of the unit being somewhat vulnerable to damage.  I believe the Cemar unit is twice as powerful as the Woodmizer.

Woodmizer's unit is mounted on the head frame, illuminating the end and left side of the log.  Is stray laser light an issue?  How about sawdust build up around the laser?

Any thoughts on these or other laser set-ups would be greatly appreciated.
WM LT40SH with Cat 51, JD 210, JD 280, JD 450G, Cat 311

backwoods sawyer

The lasers that I have seen on WM 70's and 300's all have been dangling by the cord. Too much vibration maybe?

Laser and photo eyes all need to be kept relatively clean. A paper towel and a bottle of alcohol work the best for a quick cleaning of the lens at the start of the shift, and any time it starts getting weak during the shift. Mount it on the side where the sawyer has the best view. You can always shield it for others working around it. Most lasers are not harmful unless they are always in the eyes of the helper and in that case a pair of "laser safety glasses" do the trick.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

BBTom

I have run a woodmizer laser for the last 7 years.  Did have one unit go bad, WM replaced it under warranty.  I have been very happy with mine. 

Woodmizer does use the 15 mw Cemar laser, I think the one directly from Cemar is a 30 mw.  The 15 does good in shade, The 30 does better in partial shade. neither work in direct sunlight.

Some people swear by one color or another, I have not had the opportunity to work with one of the green lasers, so cannot comment one way or the other.

Once you start using a laser, you will never want to be without it.
2001 LT40HDD42RA with lubemizer, debarker, laser, accuset. Retired, but building a new shop and home in Missouri.

Cedarman

When we had lasers on the mill it was Forestline.   They worked great.  We left them on over night, but not on weekends.  They would have to be rebuilt every 4 or 5 years though.
Once you use them it is hard to be without.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Meadows Miller

Gday

Ive only sawn on two mills with lasers (about5% of my exp) and they make a difference to most sawyers production in poor formd or rough logs im thinking of fitting one to the meadows when i get it going   ;D also be good when training a greenhorns to  ;) :D :D ;D

Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

Warren

Been sawing for 4 years.  Finally under roof this summer.  Swapped for a rebuilt WM laser for the LT40 a few months ago.  Slicker-n-sliced bread...  It does wash out at mid day at the far end of mill on long logs (no end wall).  But still enough projection to properly position the log and saw head.

The laser on the mill inspired me to experiment with a laser on the edger.  Fabbed a simple mount to put a hardware store laser on the fixed blade.  Only a couple watts.  But even that has proven beneficial for positioning longer flitches.  Will spring for a couple cemar units for the edger after the first of the year...

I occassionally have a brain fart when I am edging out wide flitches, say 2x10's.  If I come to a rougher flitch that will only edgeout a 2x6, I set the movable blade to the more narrow width.  However, then I forget to open up again for the next wide flitch.  Result: I edge out a 2x6 instead of a 2x10, waste the lumber, fuss and fume.  I know this is called "experience".  But it is expensive experience.  I am hoping that having the lasers on the edger will help me to remember to properly set/reset the edger when I get out of my rhythm.
LT40SHD42, Case 1845C,  Baker Edger ...  And still not near enough time in the day ...

backwoods sawyer

Lasers are a good tool if the lighting is right. Mean time I am waiting for the next generation of laser to come out so that I can use them in full sun.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

peterduncan

Can you retrofit a laser to fit on a Timberking B-20?

Meadows Miller

Gday

Why Not  ;) Peter they will fit on all mills when you use the right size and mounting bracket mate the only one ive mounted myself was on a Kara master and it was fitted to the mill shed roof just screwed it to the roof beam pluged it in  cut a cant then lined it up  ;D to easy mate  ;) The only drama I could see is finding the right mounting position  ;) ;D

Reguards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

ElectricAl

Peakebrook,

We have been using the WM ( 15 mw Cemar ) laser for at least 5 years.
Like most sawyers that use a laser on a regular basis, I'd be real bummed if it quit.
The 15 mw is adequate for indoor sawing. Cemar offered to repower ours to 30 mw for $300.
But I'm waiting for the new green laser from WM. The green laser is for outdoor use.
At WoodMizer's 25th, "Sparks" said he had messed around with it, but had to shelf the new laser because of the Accuset2 project. Once the Accuset2 project is complete the green laser might get some test time. 

As for your question about saw dust build up on the WM mount and laser, I made an aluminum enclosure.



This is how it looks after taking a serious beating.




A year or so a go I rebuilt the sheild.




We have had no problems. Cemar claims something like 10,000 hours of service.

Linda and I custom saw NHLA Grade Lumber, do retail sales, and provide Kiln Services full time.

backwoods sawyer

There are many good lasers out there that are designed to work in harsh environments like sawmills. You can get them in 110, 24v, and 12v as well. The mounts used are as varied as the people that use them. I simple wipe with the thumb is all that is needed to clean them from time to time. If you are interested in the green lasers here is a link.
http://www.lasertoolsco.com/page_loader.php?p_id=1
Good example Peakebrook,
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

bandmiller2

Not a bigtime mill laser but I've thought about mounting a laser level with a dot where I could pivot it to check for the slab cut,might not be the best but could be helpfull. Frank C.Has anyone tried it??
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Peakebrook

I appreciate all the good information listed above.  I' ll make a decision this winter when I finalize the mill set-up.
WM LT40SH with Cat 51, JD 210, JD 280, JD 450G, Cat 311

VT

what are you shooting the beam at to see ? The entry point of the band into the log to see the cut ?
I'm not really sure what your looking for.

VT

backwoods sawyer

You do not want a laser that just shines a point. You want one that shines in a fan that can be mounted over near the dust shut or on the out side of the idler wheel side that shines down the length of the log so that you can see it from the control panel. This gives you the cut line and you can adjust the log with out having to take measurements.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Meadows Miller

Gday

Frank I know what your aiming at mate  ;) Dad brought home one of those Ellchepo combo laser levels bout 2'long  that had the different fittings Fan , broad beam  and pinpoint with a simple twist turn on of switch pretty powerfull to  ;) ;D mount one and see whats the worst that can happen you spend $20 and get laser on the mill or  get a new level  ;) :D ;D

Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

VT

Thanks BWS
I see what your doing now. Or sort of. I'll get there when i purchase my mill.

VT

bandmiller2

Chris,you make a good point on trying the el cheapo laser.Probibly a laser is more important on a band mill because of a somewhat awkward view of the log.On a handset circular mill [no booth]your standing high just to the left [R.H. mill]of the blade with a good view of the knees its quite easy to position the log for slab cuts.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

laserman

hello all

i must say ..very interesting reading all the comments. also i would invite anyone with any questions on lasers to call me at anytime, i will usually answer 800 number until 8 or 9 in the evening.
the first thing i would like to clear up is the UV rays ....worst thing they might do is fade the casing.
Cemar Electros lasers, and the ones we make for WM are meant to be used under cover. they are also made to withstand vibration, we have over 20,000 on all types of sawmill machinery. the only type of machine we have ever had an issue with is some types of vertical edger and it is impact related and not the vibration. we have resolved this problem and now it is rare that a laser fails on a vertical edger.
if a laser fails after 3 or 4 months more than once we usually investigate each case to see what the problem is. if the laser is used outside and exposed to the elements you risk having several problems. primaily heat, if the outside temp is in the high 90's and the sun shines directly on the laser then the temp on the laser may excede recommended operating temp. these lasers are water resistant but if left outside in the rain and exposed to wide swings in temp you may start to have condensation problems.
here are a few tips and truths and misconceptions about lasers

cleaning the lens?  damp cloth ...thats it....any solvent based cleaner may damage the lens
leave it on or turn it off?  use a toggle switch to turn laser off when not in use ( the old gas lasers were best left on but the diode lasers have a life span )
life span ? cemar lasers are good for aprox 20,000 hrs....this is the first thing i would look at when shopping for lasers because there are plenty that are listed at 5,000 usually warrantied for only a year.
which model is best?  cemars CL-815 is basically the same as the  CL-720 , same power output 15mW. the difference is that the CL-720 was modified according to WMizers engineer,s request's to better suit the equipment and those changes have also been implemented for all the lasers we sell for all portable types. as for the power output WM uses the 15mW because it will work in almost every case. there are places and set-ups that are better served by using more power and thats why some people prefer the extra power of the 30mW.
red  vs green ???? lately this has been the big question, it is quite simple, green will show up better on a darker color or in a place where there is too much sunlight, but thats where the advantage ends. it is very expensive and has a very short life span...again check the website for the tech spec,s and you will find most are 5,000 hr and check the operating temp range...and not all green work in full sun
technical problem with green is mainly heat and if you exceed opt temp by 10% you lose 1/2 the life
most over 15mW have to use a heat sink but this will only cool laser to ambient.
it is really a case of buyer beware..the technology of green hasnt reached the level it needs to be to be good for economical industrial usage
i would use a 30 red and even 2 if i had to to avoid having to use a green at this point

we will release our laser for outside usage this spring. with this laser we have overcome the issues and conditions of working ouside in the elements. watch for the release in the lumber magazines and on our website.

i hope i cleared up some of the issues you have raised here. and again i invite you to write/email/call me for any help i can give please do not hesitate.
it really pays to do your research when buying , but i can see that if most of you own woodmizers then you have done your homework because they are top quality machines.
wilson collins  cemar

farmerdoug

Laserman,  Welcome aboard and thanks for the information on sawmill lasers too. 8) 8)
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

laserman

hi

the cemar and the wm are the same laser, wm uses a 15 mw and cemar offers a range from 5 to 30 mw.

very important note on cleaning  the lens !!!

use only a damp cloth and soapy water !!!  alchool or any cleaners may damage the lens

Bibbyman

I'm bringing this old topic back up because it has a lot of good information on lasers.

Anyone got updates!?

Is the current Cemar laser supplied by Wood-Mizer still 15mW? 

Anyone move up to the 800 series with 30 mw?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

BBTom

Yes, I have upgraded to the 30mw and it is brighter, not quite bright enough for a bright day. but works pretty good for a cloudy day( we have lots of them in Ohio).  The one I traded off to Warren was also a 30 mw. 

I do know that it is much easier and faster to saw with the laser visible. Especially when going portable.  It seems that every place you set up is a bit different and it takes three to five logs to get your eyes "calibrated" to the new setup.  With the laser visible, there is no "calibration" delay. 

2001 LT40HDD42RA with lubemizer, debarker, laser, accuset. Retired, but building a new shop and home in Missouri.

Bibbyman

Reading this topic got me thinking ...  (not always good) .  The notes about keeping the lens clean and how to clean them.

I went out and turned the laser on and it shot a beam across the loading arms of the log deck and the log behind the arms.   I took the gloved thumb (reasonably soft and clean cloth) and took a stab at cleaning the lens.  The beam seemed brighter. Being well below freezing, I couldn't use water so I blew some breath on the lens.  The beam dimmed out to almost gone just from the fog film.   I wiped the fog off and the beam was as bright as I've ever noticed it.

We'll have to keep a baggy of clean, soft cloth handy to try to keep it clean.

Could it be that simple?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Bibbyman

The sun was bright at midday today but we could see the laser beam well enough to use. Not WOW! bright, but of some use if we kept the lense clean.

I'm thinking as it gets later in the season, the sun will be higher and maybe less indirect light will come in.

Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

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