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skid steer question

Started by ohsoloco, September 26, 2009, 04:05:45 PM

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ohsoloco

Okay, this has been bugging me for quite some time.  One mechanic told me that there is no need to keep your skid steer at full throttle (unless of course you're doing serious work), because it just wastes fuel.  Another mechanic told me that if you don't keep the engine at full throttle you'll starve the pump of hydraulic oil leading to premature failure.  Both of these guys "know their stuff".  So what's the real deal  ???

woodsteach

My salesman told me 80% throttle, but I go full throttle when traveling and try to remember to back it down when just maneuvering around. 

JohnDeere 317


woodsteach
Brand X Swing Mill, JD 317 Skidloader, MS460 & 290, the best family a guy could ever dream of...all provided by God up above.  (with help from our banker ; ) )

okmulch

I think that running at full throtle is for older skid steers. All of my CAT skidsteers have gas peddles in them so you do not have to run them at full throttle all the time.
Rotochopper b66 track, #2 Rotochopper b66 track, woodmizer lt40, CAT 277b, CAT 268b, CAT 287c, CAT 277c, CAT299d2, CAT299d3, CAT 299d3, Volvo 70e,volvo70f, volvo90f

red oaks lumber

i have been w.o.t. with skidsteers for years, the throttle poistion is meant for full on so the pumps work to capacities. i put 1200 -1500 hrs. per year keep them 2 yrs trade them in.
my johndeere mech. says not running w.o.t. you can take the turbo out, also damage the pumps.
johndeere 328
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

Stan snider

If you really think about it the "starve the pump" theory makes no sense at all, especially with a cold machine.  Mechanics are notorious for poor operating advice. . . .and there was never a more dangerous machine  anywhere   than a skid steer at full throttle and an operator that was less skilled than they should be. There response to the controls is much faster than a new operator can think and until it becomes reflex,       LOOK OUT!    Put up the dog!     Move everything away!   Checkyour liability insurance!   They are wonderful machines but dont ignore their hazards.  Stan

Handy Andy

  A friend has been running bobcats for about 30 years, and he always operates at full throttle.  When I was checking out different brands, found that the guys who run Case machines throttle back, doesn't seem to hurt them.  I bought a Case, and use full throttle when I need it.  It has a pedal throttle.
My name's Jim, I like wood.

olyman

i have a 2500 gehl,onan24 hp air cooled. i run it at near idle. why??? because the engine has a interior noise up high!!!! ;D so, till i get it out,rering it, and put new rod bearings in,ill idle it. but i dont believe it hurts, as oil is always to the pumps. it aint like your running the pumps low on oil,so that they pull air intermittently. that would ruin em----------but i agree, that when YOU are running it, keep it at high idle,because thats where the hp is at, and the speed of the hydraulics. depends on how fast you want to do something. if diggin dirt--id be at full throttle.

T Red

Quote from: red oaks lumber on September 26, 2009, 08:08:18 PM
johndeere mech. says not running w.o.t. you can take the turbo out

That cannot be true either.  The 328 uses the 5 cylinder engine that is used in the 5000 series tractors.  I have a JD 280 that uses the same engine that was used in the tractors.  There's alot of farm tractors that are never run wide open. 

I have little faith in today's mechanics.  The only one's I listen to are the older grumpy one's that work in the back and don't care to talk to the public.  And even then I'm skeptical unless I know they've keep up on the latest.  Most of today's mechanics are remove and replace only.  They don't understand the complex workings of today's machines.  If they did they would be an engineer and not a mechanic.  I'm sure there are some good mechanics out there, I'm not referring to them. 
Tim

Dave Hanny

My bet would be - The rule is, don't try to operate a skid steer (using the hydraulics for anything other than steering) at idle.

80% would be fine, 100% would be fine - and probably down to about 40% throttle would be fine for lifting and moving lighter things.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. 
-- Buddha

ladylake

No more throttle than needed to get the job done here.  I hate when people run thier machine wide open when doing light work.    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

isawlogs


Here are my thoughts on this , there is no need to run it a WOT all the time , the myth of the turbo , these have the same type turbo's as any other engin , if they blow because of low rpm's , then many a truck engin would be servicing turbo's alot more then they are , the hydraulic pump , it is always pumping , no matter how fast idle you run it , but the amount pumped will change with the rpm of the motor , of course when working it , you should be using more rpm's , but there is no reason to have that machine always at WOT , none at all .
I agry with Ladylake , no more then needed .
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Ed

Quote from: okmulch on September 26, 2009, 07:50:07 PM
I think that running at full throtle is for older skid steers. All of my CAT skidsteers have gas peddles in them so you do not have to run them at full throttle all the time.

Pretty much correct. Older skidsteers were designed to run at wot. This started to change when Case went hp crazy in the early 90's, they were the first to boost horsepower and give you the option of throttling back. It wasn't long and the other companies followed suit.
My '89 Bobcat 743 is around 36 hp, equivalent machine today (S130) is 49 hp, big difference.

Ed

ely

773 bobcat 99 model. if i am running it it is usually 80% or higher on the throttle. i also heard the thing about the john deeres being hurt on the pump from low rpms. i just run all equip. like that.

even my tractor manual says that once you get it broke in it should be ran at the higher end of the spectrum. it is from the late 60's.

red oaks lumber

today i called an engineer from j.d. asked him the topic of running w.o.t. on the deere skidsteer.(the 3 series) the way everything is designed is for 80-100% trottle, even the emissions are based on that much trottle,far as the turbo, it was designed for full exhaust flow anything less starts to build up with unburned fuel, carbon. will they work at grandpa speed? sure, a chainsaw works at half throttle but who does that  when w.o.t. is much better!!
so having said this i stand very firm on my first post. W.O.T.
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

okmulch

I very seldom run my CAT skidsteers at full throtle unless I am traveling across a field that is unusually flat. The whole purpose of putting in a pedlle for throtle is so you do not have to run  wide open. I have never run a john deere skid steer so I do not know if they have peddle or not. My opinions are based on CAT skidsteers. I run theses skidsteers hard and have never had problems with turbos or hydraulics.
If you run these skidsteers at max throtle even the best operator has control problems in many situations. I have been running skidsteers for many years and  the only time I run full throtle  or 100 % is when I have my tree saw on the front because I need full rpm's. When I have this on the skidsteer I cut trees like there is no tomorrow but when moving across rough terrain I have difficulty with control.
Rotochopper b66 track, #2 Rotochopper b66 track, woodmizer lt40, CAT 277b, CAT 268b, CAT 287c, CAT 277c, CAT299d2, CAT299d3, CAT 299d3, Volvo 70e,volvo70f, volvo90f

ohsoloco

I run a '96 New Holland, and the throttle is hand operated (where you put it is where it stays), so you can't really give it juice if you're in the middle of something and you need a little extra oomph.  I may start cutting the rpm's down when I'm unloading logs from the trailer...I'm already on a bit of a slope, and one wrong flip of my foot can have that thing up on two wheels in a hurry  :o 

The only thing I've heard that would hurt the turbos is shutting the engine down when not at idle.  There's a sticker in the cab that says it should be at idle for a full minute before shutting down.  I always wondered why so I asked the mechanic from the local New Holland dealer (not one of the other mechanics I've mentioned), and he said because the turbo is spinning around ten times the rpm of the motor, and when you kill the motor oil stops flowing to it.  He said a full minute at idle is overkill, but to make sure it's idled down before shutting down.

stonebroke

idling also enables the turbo to cool down so it does not coke the oil in it.

Stonebroke

Stan snider

Stonebroke pegged it.  The heat dispersion is what is critical.If you have ever stalled a turbo'd engine suddenly, you hear a swoosh noise of the turbo stopping, maybe a second or two.  A turbo is a fan driving a fan with a bearing in the middle, not a roller type either, but like an engine bearing  depending on the oil flow for cooling. If you ever get a chance to see a tractor working after dark you can often see the turbo glow. An irrigation engine will do the same thing. iIt is amazing that exhust gas of 1200 to 1400 degrees can be handled and the bearing housing kept cool enough to last for several thousand hours. Stan

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