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Splitter Advise

Started by jedc43, March 31, 2013, 11:35:02 AM

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jedc43

Hi all,
  New to the forum..I have a OWB and I like to split the really big diameters so it is easier to handle in the winter and it will season better....Dont want to buy a really expensive splitter..I am looking for something with 16 gpm pump and around 30 ton...I cant seem to find anything under 2000 unless I go with  11gpm pump with less tons...I live in worcester county and was wondering if anyone has any advise....been looking on craigslist but no luck lately....I definately want to be able to flip from horizontal to vertical.
                                                                                           Marc

clww

Welcome to the Forestry Forum. :)
I got my 28 ton Huskee splitter from Tractor Supply several years ago and have been very pleased. I've used it for large diameter rounds up to 24" in length.
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

thecfarm

Jedc43,welcome to the forum.I have a 27 ton that splits both ways. Been using it for 6 years on big wood and it does it fine. I have never stalled it and sometimes it kinda shears  the wood for a ways,because the wood has alot of knots,crotches or comes from the bog.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

jedc43

Quote from: thecfarm on March 31, 2013, 11:50:42 AM
Jedc43,welcome to the forum.I have a 27 ton that splits both ways. Been using it for 6 years on big wood and it does it fine. I have never stalled it and sometimes it kinda shears  the wood for a ways,because the wood has alot of knots,crotches or comes from the bog.
What kind is it and how much did you pay?

thecfarm

It's a Cub Cadet,Came from one of those places that say what color and what name you want on it. I saw a White just like it for about $200?? more after we brought it,EXACT same one,but diffeant name,color. Seem like $1200,BIG ??. That was 6 years ago.  ;D But it was an average price than. I see them kinda like it at TS,I think the Huskie. Mine has the I beam under the hyd cylinder. Now the I beam stops at kinda by the wedge and the cylinder is just hanging there. I guess that would work. I'm way off on that 6 years mark,must be almost 10 if not more.  :o   We had the house built in 2000. No wonder I can't remember how much we paid for it. Sorry my bookeeping is not better.  ;D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

clww

Paid $1660 for mine in 2007.
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

thecfarm

I just went to TSC website. That 28 huskee looks good.

clww,you like yours? Sorry guessed you all ready answered that question?    :-[  But does it still look about the same?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

clww

I love my splitter. ;) Second best piece of equipment I ever bought, next to the chainsaws.
The maintenance performed so far: had to re-weld the wedge, as it was starting to crack and deform. Replace the pressure hose for the hydraulics when it developed a bulge. Replace the filter X2. Still running the same hydraulic fluid.
I've split at least 100 cords of wood so far, and I would buy another one. :)
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

John Mc

One thing to keep in mind is that it seems the majority of splitter manufacturers lie about the tonnage ratings (TimberWolf is one notable exception).  Fortunately, it doesn't generally take anywhere near a true 30 tons to split 99% of the firewood I come across.

I have a 16 ton splitter, according to the rating. With the 3.5" cylinder on it, it would have to be running at over 3,300 PSI to generate 16 tons.  I really doubt they've got it cranked up that high (nothing in the specs. on PSI I'm checking with the manufacturer). 

I occasionally wish it had a bit more power, but it splits more than 99% of the hardwood I throw at it (various species, beech, maple, oak, etc.).  Most of what I split is less than 15" diameter or so, but I've done larger.

{EDIT} I just heard back from the manufacturer. They recommend a setting of 2000 to 2250 PSI, with a max of 2500.  They say the pump maxes out at 3000, and that is the system rating.  This is typical of what splitter manufacturers do.  At the high end of the recommended range, the 3.5" cylinder puts out 10.8 tons. Even at their "max" setting, it puts out 12 tons.  So around 11 tons of "real" splitting pressure works well for me.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

thecfarm

I just feel if you are buying a home onwers splitter,like what I have,they all lie the same amount so a 27 ton is really a 18 ton with all of them.   Or something like that.  ;D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

John Mc

It's not hard to calculate, if you know the cylinder size and the operating pressure.

I suspect most ratings are loosely based on the maximum pressure the pump can put out, even though none of them set the system to run anywhere near that pressure.  I've found the 2000 to 2250 PSI range that my manufaturer mentions to be pretty typical. That's also right around where most Compact tractor hydraulic systems are set (I don't know if the "big boys" run at the same pressure range or not).
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

John Mc

Just heard that one of the big players in the log splitter industry uses 4000 PSI when rating their splitters.  However, the system pressure it not set anywhere near 4000, nor will the pump put out that kind of pressure.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

trapper

So would the diameter of the cylinder be the best way to judge the force of the splitter?
stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

r.man

Bigger diameter cylinder = more splitting force but also = longer cycle time.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

scottmphoto

I have an old Tradesman that my dad bought @31 years ago. I don't know where he got it or how much he paid but it still works. It has a 5hp B&S engine on it and is a 20-ton splitter. The only thing I have done to it since I've had it is to rebuild the carb one time, replace the hydraulic fluid and filter and put tubes in the tires as they had good tread but wouldn't hold air.

John Mc

Quote from: trapper on April 01, 2013, 03:29:12 PM
So would the diameter of the cylinder be the best way to judge the force of the splitter?

Radius x radius x 3.14 gives you square inches of surface area of the piston within the cylinder.  This is what the hydraulic pressure is pushing on. so that surface area X the pressure in PSI is the pounds of splitting force. divide by 2000 to convert pounds to tons.

Note that the PSI listed in some specs is NOT the pressure at which the system is set to run. They often use the max pressure the hoses and pump are rated for. The system is almost never set for that, nor is it likely very smart to set it there.

An example: 4" cylinder with a hydraulic system running at a typical 2250 PSI:
Radius = 4"/2 = 2"
surface area of piston = 2 x 2 x3.14 = 12.56 square inches
Tons of splitting force = 12.56 x 2250 PSI / 2000 = 14.13 tons

I've seen splitters like this rated at 22 or 25 tons.  To get 22 tons, the pressure would have to run at 3500 PSI.  for 25 tons, you'd need to run at 4000 PSI.

Basically, a lot of these ratings are boldfaced lies.  Unfortunately, once one of the big names in the industry does it, everyone else almost has to, or their splitters look wimpy when comparing specs.

Best thing to do is to try out the splitter before you buy. What matters is whether it works on the stuff you want to split, not the umber they plaster on the label
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

TeaW

I like to add a pressure gauge to the system and then I know what it is doing.
TeaW

Logging logginglogging

Troy-built makes two 27 ton splitters, 1 has a smaller honda engine and one has a 120cc Troy-Built engine. I have used the one with the honda engine before and it was great. Is the Troy built engine a good engine as well? they have the same rate pump on them so i really dont see much of an advantage with the bigger moter.

beenthere

Quote from: TeaW on April 02, 2013, 08:22:29 AM
I like to add a pressure gauge to the system and then I know what it is doing.

That is a plan I've decided on as well. Seems knowing what the pump is doing would be useful information as time goes by.
The splitter I use is still original and has averaged about 15 full cord a year since 1984.
Oil changes regularly, a carb kit once, a muffler and a mouse chewed off a wire to the ignition module. 8 hp B&S.  Has been pretty inexpensive rig to operate.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Oliver1655

In the attached file I made, is a chart on the second page which is handy for determining the tonnage of a splitter or if you are wanting to build one can help you determine what size cylinder to use.  I created this hand out to make it easier to explain what the basic components of a splitter are when asked for help.  I have another file which covers some pros/cons of different types of splitters, (dedicated horizontal, horizontal/vertical, 3pt mounted, loader mounted, ...), but alas, I have misplaced it.

Hope you find it enjoyable reading. 

John
John

Stihl S-08s (x2), Stihl S10 (x2), Jonsered CS2139T, Husqvarna 338XPT California, Poulan Microvibe XXV, Poulan WoodShark, Poulan Pro 42cc, McCulloch Mini-Mac 6 (x2), Van Ruder Hydraulic Tractor Chainsaw

John Mc

A very helpful paper, John. 
Are you sure your electric motor sizing is correct? I'm assuming the electric motor numbers you list are in HP. You can generally use a significantly lower HP electric motor to run a splitter than the gas engine it replaces, but your table shows larger electric motors. 

My "16 Ton" electric splitter (which is actually closer to 11 tons) has a 3.5" cylinder, 11 GPM pump, and a 2 HP electric motor (the current "16 ton" models sold by the manufacturer come with a 1.5 HP electric motor).  They sell the same splitter with a 6 HP Subaru gas engine.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Oliver1655

The electric motor sizes are per the formula listed below the chart with the web site I got the formula from also.  HOWEVER, I did not figure in the efficiency rating of the pump. As a kid growing up I was taught to double the size of a gas engine to find out what size electric would be equivalent.  So I also was surprised at the sizes the formula gave.  If anyone has a better reference, I am open to updating the chart.  I also am open to suggestions which can improve the handout.

Thanks for the feedback!  John
John

Stihl S-08s (x2), Stihl S10 (x2), Jonsered CS2139T, Husqvarna 338XPT California, Poulan Microvibe XXV, Poulan WoodShark, Poulan Pro 42cc, McCulloch Mini-Mac 6 (x2), Van Ruder Hydraulic Tractor Chainsaw

John Mc

I've generally heard the other way around... You roughly double the HP of an electric motor if you want to put a gas engine in its place (I've also heard 3 HP electric = 5 HP gas).  I see some with 10 HP gas engines that have an option for a 5HP electric.  Similarly for compressors: I see the compressor pump rated for use with a 3 HP electric or 5 HP gas engine, or 5 HP electric / 9 HP gas. If never seen something rated for a higher HP electric motor than for a gas engine.

Unfortunately, I've not come across a scientific reference for this.

Some of this probably depends on the application: electric motors develop more torque as the speed slows, while gas engines tend to peak at a certain RPM, and lose torque below that.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

yellowrosefarm

My sister has the 28 huskee and it seems to work well. I've helped split a pile and it hasn't had any problems. I have an old horizontal one with a 5hp Briggs that I bought a long time ago for some $ and a rewiring job on a Ford 9N. There have only been 2 pieces of wood it would not split. A piece of apple and some unknown block I got from an arborist friend. I don't even want to think about how much wood that thing has split.

r.man

Saw an interesting option on a splitter video lately. The pusher plate on the ram slips off to expose a narrow knife splitter blade. It was billed as a way to handle hard to split blocks. The operator stalled the pusher, backed it up, removed the pusher and then put the knife blade about half way to the stationary wedge. After the pusher was put back on the block did split. This might be a way to cut down horsepower and or pressure and still be able to split most blocks.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

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