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Electric winch cable broken...

Started by grweldon, June 27, 2012, 01:43:32 PM

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grweldon

Has anybody broken an electric winch cable on a sawmill?  Came apart at the swedge that secured the hook.  Had a struggle loading a large log.  Stalled the winch many times.  Had to use a lever and fulcrum to assist the winch before finally getting it on the bed.  Took over an hour just for this tree.  When I switched the cable over to the log turner and put tension on it, it came apart...



My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

Woodsrover

Sounds like you're tough on that little winch.  Can you double it up with a snatch block on those big ones?
If you deform those swages at all they get pretty week and most winches come with pretty crummy swages if not the whole cable.
McMaster Carr sells field-serviceable cable clamps that are pretty strong.  If you want to save that cable I'd go that route.


kgbond

GRW, I would be unable to handle the weight of that log with 1 inch cable.Any way to get hold of a loader to make things a easy. ??  What does that log weigh?  Got to over a ton

Kimball

medic

GR
   Couple of things;  I've found on my 1400 that if I'm loading a big'un, I'll throttle it up about halfway.  That seems to keep the winch from stalling out.
    Also, from looking at your pic it looks like that big knot on the side of the log facing the camera probably came into contact with the edge of the mill when it was trying to pull the log over the little 'hump' made by the bunks at the top of the ramp.  If you can avoid that kind of situation it may help but sometimes on those big ones there's nothing we can do about it.  I've tried cutting a piece of 6'' diameter pvc pipe that was 8 feet long in half so it will fit over the rails on the mill then notched out for the bunks to make the transition from the ramp to the bunks a little smoother.  It help some but isn't the solution for all situations.   
    Like someone else mentioned, that's a big log.  If you stalled out the winch and had a tough time getting it up on the bunks you may have torqued or damaged the the connector on the cable.  When I've had a tough one like that I try to remind myself to check the connectors, snatch blocks, etc for damage before I move to the next phase of the operation (I said I try, sometimes I get in a hurry and don't always remember). 
Good luck
scott
Retired Paramedic, TimberKing 1400, Logrite cant hooks, old MacCullough chain saws.  Too many projects not enough hours in the day.

WDH

Wow, that is an ugly pecan log!  Remember, "Pecan is the Devil"  :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

grweldon

Medic,

Thanks for the tips.  That is exactly what happened, but it wasn't a knot that got stuck on the edge of the mill, it was just the log hitting the bunk rails.  I was in a situation... the rails wouldn't let the log back down and I couldn't get it up on the bunks.  Even though I got it on the mill, it's still in the field.  I used all my time loading it!  If I have this problem again, I'm going to try to figure out how to add another snatch block or two to the system...

WDH.... pecan is the Devil!
My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

grweldon

Quote from: kgbond on June 27, 2012, 04:50:51 PM
GRW, I would be unable to handle the weight of that log with 1 inch cable.Any way to get hold of a loader to make things a easy. ??  What does that log weigh?  Got to [go] over a ton

Kimball

Kimball, the TimberKing rep I spoke to estimated 3500 pounds.  The mill capacity is 5000 pounds.  I only wish I had access to a front end loader on a tractor of some kind.  It's on the list of things to purchase, but it's quite a ways down the road...
My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

kgbond

Glen, very interested in your rate of speed when cutting. I am going very slow.
I am cutting mostly cedar. After reading your posts, may be I am going TOO slow. I see a lot of heat generation, ie smoke.

Kimball

Buck

GRW, that is one nasty pecan log. That is a tough one to spread your wings on. Your winch and blades AND YOU have really been stressed on this one.
Respect is earned. Honesty is appreciated. Trust is gained. Loyalty is returned.

Live....like someone left the gate open

Magicman

Glen, Some "logs" need sawing and some do not.  Just because a "log" has bark on the outside and wood inside does not necessarily qualify it as a log.  The "log" shown had two large limbs removed and below that several small limbs, and that is only looking at two sides.

After you saw it, the lumber will deal you additional misery.  That freshly sawn knotty lumber will have some interesting and pretty figure, but it is going to twist and be very unstable.  Drying it flat will be virtually impossible.

I believe that the winch cable was trying to tell you something.   :)

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

grweldon

Kimball,

I'm not having a problem with heat generation, except that the hydraulic system gets hot, too hot to comfortably touch, but probably not hot enough to cause a burn unless you keep touching for a few seconds.

I'm not really the one to ask about feedrate on anything, as you know, I'm still really new to all this, but all I've read from everybody here is that cedar is relatively easy to cut.  From what I gather, the 10deg. hook blades are what most people use for cedar.  You are using some sort of blade lube/coolant, right?  Water with dishsoap?

Are you getting straight cuts?  About the fastest I've been able to run with the pecan and a 10deg. blade and still get a flat cut is about 4 feet per minute.  I've been told here in this thread that I should be getting up to 30 feet per minute.  I'll be happy if I can get 8-10 feet per minute.

You have a TK2000, right?  You might want to add that in your profile signature line so others know what mill you have and might be able to help... wish I could...
My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

grweldon

Quote from: Magicman on June 28, 2012, 01:56:24 PM
Glen, Some "logs" need sawing and some do not.  Just because a "log" has bark on the outside and wood inside does not necessarily qualify it as a log.  The "log" shown had two large limbs removed and below that several small limbs, and that is only looking at two sides.

After you saw it, the lumber will deal you additional misery.  That freshly sawn knotty lumber will have some interesting and pretty figure, but it is going to twist and be very unstable.  Drying it flat will be virtually impossible.

I believe that the winch cable was trying to tell you something.   :)

Magicman,

I appreciate the wisdom... coming from you I know it is sincere.  The "log" is very difficult indeed and I may be wasting my time with it, but I'm not really ready to quit with it yet.  All of the lumber I've milled so far has come from this tree.  Yes, it is cupping and twisting somewhat and will probably continue, but I think that no matter what, I'll be gaining valuable experience, I'm getting good exercise, and some of the wood is beautiful.  What I'll be able to use it in is another question.  I may have to burn it all!  There is a bunch of pecan around here and I should probably get the most knowledge I can in dealing with it instead of letting it frighten me off.

The large end of this "log" was cut right at the root.  The place where you thought a large branch was cut off was actually a bulge in the tree, probably not a burl, but some sort of trauma that healed.  I had to whittle it down to get it to fit between the carriage.  On the other face it is clear.  About 90% of the wood I have cut from this tree has been reaction wood.  Even if I can't use it, it will probably be best to see how it behaves when cut, then how it dries, and then how (if) it can be dressed in any way and used somehow.

So, if I hear you correctly, you are telling me that if a customer approached you about milling this log, you would try to steer them clear of it?   ;)
My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

kgbond

Thanks Glen, using pinesol and water, getting about 8 feet in 2 minutes. I am slow because I am unsure of what I am doing. Only have used 4 blades so far, so I don't know if I am harming them or not as they have not been sharpened.

Kimball 

Magicman

Quote from: grweldon on June 28, 2012, 02:07:21 PM
So, if I hear you correctly, you are telling me that if a customer approached you about milling this log, you would try to steer them clear of it?   ;) 

Since I know that the customer would not be getting any value for his money, I would rather saw it for him free than to charge for sawing it.  Long after I leave a saw job, my product serves as a reminder to the customer about the quality of my sawing.  He may not remember that the quality of the log was poor, but he would remember who sawed it.

I don't just have my motto in my signature, I live by it.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

wood monger

I thought sweetgum was the devil.

Al_Smith

Small cable like that is relatively easy to eye splice .Cut the frayed ends off including that 29 cent swedge fitting .Lay out about 6-8 inchs of cable parted in two pieces  .Half the strands each side then wrap them back in an eye around themselves .Cut the excess off and either use another swedge fitting around the juncture of the strand ends or a Crosby .

Not to make sport of that cable rigging but quit truthfully that type cable termination is unsafe but cheap to do which is why they do it .

Delawhere Jack

I don't see any chain in the photo. Search the forum for "parbuckle".

Al_Smith

I'm not familiar with the term parbuckle .If it's the same as rolling a log using a chain I can put a picture on of rolling an aprox 12,000 pound log onto a machinery trailer .

We always called it "side hauling " .Fact someplace my mother has a picture of her father side hauling a big log in about 1940 using a pair of big Belgian geldings .2 horse power more or less .

Magicman

The local term here is Cross Hauling.  If you mentioned "Parbuckle" someone would be trying to hitch up their overalls.


 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

grweldon

So a chain is a better way to do this eh?  I did notice that the 1/4" cable was cutting in to the log and I was wondering if this might have been one of the reasons it wouldn't pull, just too much friction to overcome.

I re-worked the loop temporarily.  TimberKing is sending me a new winch instead of just a cable kit.  They had the winch in stock and they would have had to order the cable kit.  I didn't think about temporarily fixing the end before the new winch was on the way.

In any case, the log is now lumber!
My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

Magicman

I don't know from your picture what your pulling arrangement was, but you always need the Y arrangement (as shown above) close to the trailer.  This Y could be chain, cable, or strap.  This will prevent the log from twisting and you loosing control toward the end of your loading.  There are many pictures of my loading in my gallery.  I am sure that other members also have pictures of their loading arrangements.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

grweldon

I see... I didn't catch the Y arrangement.  TK has you loading the log by looping the cable around the log.  No Y.  I think the spring-loaded dogs on the ramps are supposed to do the job of keeping the log stable.  Thanks for the tip...
My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

Delawhere Jack

Quote from: grweldon on June 29, 2012, 10:28:17 AM
I see... I didn't catch the Y arrangement.  TK has you loading the log by looping the cable around the log.  No Y.  I think the spring-loaded dogs on the ramps are supposed to do the job of keeping the log stable.  Thanks for the tip...

Try it, you'll like it.  ;D You just need to make sure that you hook the chain in such a way that it won't get pulled all the way to the winch before the log is on the deck.

The chain creates two points of contact which makes the log much easier to control.

Cypressstump

Those spring dogs work fairly well when clean, but as bark and chips lodge in them, the log will get cattywompass on ya pretty quick when loading.
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

grweldon

I always thought it was "caddywompass"!   :D
My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

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