Winch selection....

upnut · January 03, 2017, 08:43:17 PM

Into the second wood cutting season with the hot-rod trailer, really like it and use the winch nearly every time cutting, mostly to drag dead red elm/ash poles to the trailer as seen. The TSC sale bin 2500 lb. atv winch is getting noisy in the gearing, probably from overloading, and the little 420 cold crank amp garden tractor battery that runs it may be getting tired. Looking at the 3500 lb atv winch or the 4500 lb utv winch to replace it along with a bigger battery. Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Scott B.

Gearbox · January 04, 2017, 10:14:27 AM

Just pop it apart and lube the gear . You may need a small amount of heat on the allen bolts [ blue loc tite ] . The gear is on the inboard end of the drum .

DeerMeadowFarm · January 04, 2017, 10:57:15 AM

Quote from: Gearbox on January 04, 2017, 10:14:27 AM
Just pop it apart and lube the gear . You may need a small amount of heat on the allen bolts [ blue loc tite ] . The gear is on the inboard end of the drum .

If anyone should know gears.... ;)

47sawdust · January 04, 2017, 03:05:26 PM

upnut,
I like your trailer.Nice idea for retrieving small logs.How long will the battery hold a charge?You pull that with a 4 wheeler?

upnut · January 04, 2017, 04:21:19 PM

47sawdust- An overnight charge will last one of my woodcutting days on poles and tops if thy are straight drags. Trying to dislodge leaners takes alot out of the battery. Pull it with a Yamaha Grizzly 350....

Whitman · January 04, 2017, 06:48:43 PM

I have a new 3,k#atv winch and it requires at least 650 cca. full load. You might be coming up a little short on amps late in the day. It was $59 from Rual king.

Whitman

upnut · January 04, 2017, 07:47:12 PM

Whitman- I have considered a second battery on a charger to switch out at lunch time, or tapping into the atv charging system. I honestly didn't know how much use it would get when I built it, turns out quite a bit. With a snatch block and some ingenuity it saves alot of carrying chunks!

John Mc · January 05, 2017, 08:23:36 PM

I'd look at a true deep cycle battery, rather than adding another similar battery. Deep cycle batteries can take the drain without damage.

Not sure what your ATV charging system is rated for, but it may not keep up with a days worth of winch use, but it would be better than nothing. You do want to guard against drawing down your ATV battery. They definitely can't take the deep cycling. You also should not hook up dissimilar battery types in parallel (the ATV probably has an AGM battery. I'm guessing your garden tractor winch battery is a standard flooded or sealed lead acid battery), so you may need to avoid using your ATV charging system on this battery if your ATV battery is still connected to the system.

upnut · January 06, 2017, 07:23:15 AM

John Mc- Thanks for the tips! In researching, found kits/switches for dual battery set-ups for atv's, mostly so guys way off the trail have a means to start their machines, not run auxiliary equipment. The dissimilar batteries would be an issue there as well. A couple thoughts on the deep cycle batteries....They are made for long periods of low voltage use (think rv/trolling motor) vs many short bursts of max volts, as in winching logs. Don't know if that matters. Plus they are 2-3 times heavier, on an already tongue heavy trailer. Moving the battery box onto the atv rear rack is an option in that case. Thanks again!

Scott B.

John Mc · January 06, 2017, 08:43:52 AM

It's true that most deep cycle batteries are less able to handle very high current surges (that is what a starting battery is designed for). However, repeatedly draining a starter battery is a great way to send it to an early grave.

A starter battery may hold up OK for a single winching (for example getting your ATV out of the mud it's stuck in). A day of winching till it won't pull much anymore is very hard on them. You can mitigate the negative effects if you charge the battery fully as soon as possible after draining it - hook it up to charge as soon as you get home & unloaded, rather than letting it sit until the next day. Also consider a desulfating battery maintainer/charger. The desulfating circuit can undo some of the damage from discharging the battery deeply and letting it sit. (I use one on my 24V aircraft battery, which probably costs $400+ to replace.)

IMO, BatteryMinder makes some of the better charger/maintainers out there. They desulfate, are temperature compensated, and can be left hooked up to a battery long term, without damage or boiling off electrolyte. Models 1500 & 1510 are inexpensive maintainers (electrically identical, the only difference is the included accessories and the longer warranty on the 1510). They will handle any flooded lead/acid 12 V battery as well as the Optima type AGM batteries. BatteryMinder does make higher amperage models as well as chargers that will handle Gell, flooded lead acid, or other AGM (beside the Optima type).

As far as batteries go, Optima Yellow Top batteries are a hybrid design that can take deep cycling as well as high current draws. I believe some of their Blue-Top batteries can also do this. Might be a good application for a winch battery if you want deep cycle but are concerned about high peak loads. They are not cheap, however, so if you go this route, I would inquire with the manufacturer before using them this way. Most of the folks I know just use a Marine-type battery. I have no personal experience using one for winching, so can't say whether the peak load is a concern or not

John Mc · January 06, 2017, 09:01:01 AM

Harbor Freight sells the "Badland Winches". I have one of their 3500# winches that I've been meaning to mount on my Coot (and antique 4 wheel steer UTV), I just haven't gotten around to it yet. I have used it in other applications (lifting solar panels up to a roof on a home-brew lift in an area where we had no power. We ran it off the old marine deep cycle battery from my pop-up camper.) The winch worked well, but we were far from the max load rating.

The 3500# winch typically goes for $130, but they are on sale frequently, and HF has 20% off coupons regularly (and more rarely 25% off coupons). There is a 20% coupon going on now until Jan 8. I suspect they are not quite the build quality of some of the bigger name winches out there, but the one I have has held up OK.

John Mc · January 06, 2017, 09:04:39 AM

Quote from: upnut on January 06, 2017, 07:23:15 AM
John Mc- Thanks for the tips! In researching, found kits/switches for dual battery set-ups for atv's, mostly so guys way off the trail have a means to start their machines, not run auxiliary equipment. The dissimilar batteries would be an issue there as well.

If the switch only connects one battery at a time to the charging system, it would not matter if they were dissimilar batteries. Any time you connect two batteries in parallel, you want similar battery types, and both should be in similar stage of charge. (Hooking up a discharged battery to a fully charged one with nothing to regulate the current can severely overload one or both batteries. In extreme cases, causing fire and/or explosion.)

dave_dj1 · January 06, 2017, 12:06:41 PM

One thing I have found is, like most things in life, you get what you pay for. The cheap winches do OK but for speed and power I would go with a name brand like Warn or Ramsey.
Get yourself a good deepcycle battery as well, you could probably run cables to your atv to keep a charge going into the battery throughout the day.
Nice trailer too :D

John Mc · January 06, 2017, 12:23:40 PM

Quote from: dave_dj1 on January 06, 2017, 12:06:41 PM
One thing I have found is, like most things in life, you get what you pay for. The cheap winches do OK but for speed and power I would go with a name brand like Warn or Ramsey.

Agreed. I used the Badlands winch because the price was right for experimenting to see how I would use the winch. I have a 3 Pt Hitch logging winch on my tractor, so wasn't sure how much I would use this on my Coot. For what I've used it for, it's certainly held up well. I got my money's worth out of it, but I haven't worked it hard. When it finally goes, if the life hasn't been acceptable, I'll replace it with something better.

QuoteGet yourself a good deepcycle battery as well, you could probably run cables to your atv to keep a charge going into the battery throughout the day.
Nice trailer too :D

I'll just repeat my caution about connecting dissimilar types of batteries (dissimilar sizes/capacities is not an issue, connecting an AGM in parallel with a flooded battery can be - especially if you leave them connected).

Also, if you are going to connect your deep cycle battery to the one in your ATV, don't wait until your deep cycle is drained. Connect them up when they are both fully charged, and you'll avoid a huge current dump from your fully charged ATV battery into the deep cycle (possibly frying your ATV battery in the process). Two healthy car batteries might take the abuse, a small ATV battery likely will not - at least not for long or repeatedly).

Gearbox · January 06, 2017, 07:15:35 PM

On those Harbor Freight winches I an running 3 of them{2500lbs] on the home built processer . 1 runs in 2.2 second bursts the other lift 1/3 of a cord in 2to5 second bursts . I am close to 50 cord since I built the BT6870 with no winch motor problems.

John Mc · January 06, 2017, 07:23:34 PM

Quote from: Gearbox on January 06, 2017, 07:15:35 PM
On those Harbor Freight winches I an running 3 of them{2500lbs] on the home built processer . 1 runs in 2.2 second bursts the other lift 1/3 of a cord in 2to5 second bursts . I am close to 50 cord since I built the BT6870 with no winch motor problems.

As I recall, there is a pretty good step up in speed from the 2500# to the 3500# Harbor Freight winches (which is why I went with the 3500# winch, even though I didn't need the 3500# capacity)

upnut · January 06, 2017, 07:53:43 PM

I am leaning towards the Traveller(TSC) 3500# winch, mostly because it will bolt in place of the 2500# I now have. Plus, blocking the wheels doesn't hold the unit every time now, so short of tying off the front of the machine we reach a point of diminishing returns on a bigger winch. Looked at Optima yellow tops at Auto Zone today...$237.00 out the door(plus adapters for winch wiring) so some thinking is in order as to cost-weight-longevity etc. Thanks for everyone's input!

Scott B.

John Mc · January 06, 2017, 08:22:00 PM

Quote from: upnut on January 06, 2017, 07:53:43 PM
Looked at Optima yellow tops at Auto Zone today...$237.00 out the door(plus adapters for winch wiring) so some thinking is in order as to cost-weight-longevity etc.

They aren't cheap, but you can find deals from time to time. The Optima I bought for my tractor listed for $247. I found it on Amazon for $175.

upnut · January 11, 2017, 04:36:50 PM

Continue to research winches, local NAPA dealer will order in a Warn Vantage 2000 for $224.00 which carries a 5 year warranty. Don't know if that covers winching firewood. About the same line pull as the current one, but appears well built and made in U.S.A. Meanwhile, called in the reinforcements for a big dead elm...

Got to use a big saw and tractor hydraulics, nice!

Thanks again for all the tips!
Scott B.

John Mc · January 11, 2017, 05:57:21 PM

Just remember to be aware of the duty cycle. In addition to a rather slow speed, these electric winches often need a long rest to cool off between pulls.

upnut · January 11, 2017, 06:17:29 PM

Quote from: John Mc on January 11, 2017, 05:57:21 PM
Just remember to be aware of the duty cycle. In addition to a rather slow speed, these electric winches often need a long rest to cool off between pulls.

Perfect! Sounds alot like my wood-cutting speed!.... :D....I believe I have seriously abused that little bargain-bin winch...Scott B.