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F250 6.0 Diesel Question

Started by submarinesailor, November 16, 2012, 07:05:30 PM

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submarinesailor

Hey guys,

It's been a few weeks since I have had any real free time to be here.  Things have been just a little crazy; work at load at home and at work, plus Sandy has made things just a little too busy.

One of the major reasons I haven't been here is that I just recently have gotten into a major pissing contest with a large Ford dealership here in Manassas.  And that leads me into my question(s) to you guys.
As many of you know I have had an F250 SD diesel for a long time.  It has 278,000+ miles on it and I have had a few minor, but predictable, problems over the last couple of years...balls joints, alternators, and other high mileage things like that.  But since April when I was on my way back from the Timber Framers event at VMI, I have put over $6,500 into it just to keep it on the road.  The most recent problem was the high pressure oil pump went out on me and cost me just short of $2,500 for the dealer ship to replace.  My question is:  How exactly does the high pressure oil pump (HPOP), the high pressure relief valve (IPR) the high pressure senor (IPC) and the computer work?   From my experience, plus what I have found on the web, the control loop works like a great number of other hydraulic systems.  When you lose the pressure senor, the pressure control valve fails in the shut or max flow position so that whatever it is feeding does not starve for lubricate or in this case operating power to the fuel injectors.

So here's what has happened so far.  Back in April I was driving home from Lexington, the TF Guild event and when I stopped in Front Royal for fuel, I felt a little sick and dizzy.  Some reason I happened to look at my fingers and I noticed that they were slightly blue under the finger nails.  CO poisoning jumped into my head.  So for the rest of the trip back the Manassas, all the windows were down.  The next day it was at the dealers getting the "Y" pipe replaced - where the port and starboard exhaust headers come together, which in turn feeds the turbo.  This fixed the gassing problem... for about $1,100.  For some reason during this repair, the mechanic had to cut the wires going to the IPC.  After I got my truck from this repair, I noticed it was harder to start – 5 seconds of cranking, not the usual 1.5 to 2 seconds.  Even in real cold weather this truck has always started real easy for me.  Anyways, shortly after this repair came 2 other failures; AC compressor and  it's clutch at the same time and then the Fuel Injector Contract Module (FICM).  Both of those were just over $1,200 each.  After those 2 failures the truck was just running Ok – noticed a little drop off in fuel mileage.  But it was still running.  That brings up to 2 November.  I was on my way to pick up a marker blub that needed replacement in order to pass the VA state inspection when it stated acting REAL tried.  All I could get was 5 MPH.  Had just enough to get it off the main drag when it QUIT BIG TIME.  Could not get it to start again.  So I had it towed to the Ford dealer.  It took them 9 days, including the weekends, just to find out what was wrong... and many phone calls to FORD's technical service reps.  They got it back together on the 10th day.  Now it runs like it was new.  Mileage is back up to around 20.5 at 62 MPH...just like it was when it was new.
 
A couple of things to note; 1. The KID who was working on it told me that when he went to test the IPC, the wires pulled apart in his hands.  Remember what I said about the wiring being cut during the April repairs.  A bad splice in the IPC wiring, (BTW, the service scheduler told me that the heat shrink tubing had pulled back and the wiring had not pulled apart. But I very clearly remember the kid telling me it pulled a part) 2.  Remember what I said about how many pressure control loops work.. loss the senor and the pressure control valve failures in the shut or max flow position.

It is my opinion that when the IPC wiring wasn't put back together correctly; it caused the harder starting, this has been verified on powerstoke.com, and it also caused the IPR to fail shut, putting an overload condition, max output pressure, onto the HPOP for a load period of time.  Which in turn lead to its failure.
Is there any 6.0 certified mechanics out there who disagree with my train of thought on this?  PLEASE let me know, because I'm working on kicking this above their heads.  I stopped by today and asked for the district/regional service managers name, phone number and email address so I could let him know I wasn't happy with this dealer service department.  Something funny about this, the assistant service manager, the diesel scheduler, told me he didn't know who it was.  Come on now.... a service manager who doesn't know who the district guys is.  I didn't believe him then and I still don't believe him now.  So, I told him to get it to me by Tuesday noon time or I was going to the GM for the dealership.  I can tell you, he wasn't happy when I said that.

Ok guys, the ball is in your court.  Help me out here.  What am I doing wrong/right?

Bruce

snowstorm

i have 2 of them. just had a ficm put in the 550 last week $900 at the local ford dealer. also did the egr delete a yr ago. ficm should have 48 volts mine had 35. runs real good now. my 250 had a complete engine wirring harness replaced ford paid for that. i was told at the time they had some trouble with them. the ficm on the 6.0 opens and closes the injectors on the 7.3 it only opened them. never any problems with the high pressure oil pump. only repair i paid for on the 250 was a fuel pump. at least its not in the tank

SPIKER

One of the guys at work has one, he has had several issues in the last couple months.   I'll tell him to keep an eye on these issues.   His just blew the HP hose off the back of the pump res.   It went thru several of the plug/seals back there too.   the line split right at the straight fitting.   Dealer only part was few hundred plus costs to install...   :o

Die hard Ford Fan here and one of my DH Tow Truck driver buddies keeps his for 250~280K miles and trades them in as at that point they (like you are finding out) start to hit you for some big ticket items.   If you run full synthetic and keep to the 10K changes and the Diesel spec coolant 350K can be easily achieved without major internal issues.   The HP Pumps and glow plugs are common problem areas...   He keeps pretty good eye on his as he hot foots his tow trucks all over.   One of my other buddies has a small fleet of hot foot tow rigs.  He ran all FORDS till the chevies came out W Allison trans.   He swapped out and has now gone back to the fords.   :D  He had 3 Chevies blow up or blow trans all with 80~120K on clocks.  Warranty was NO GOOD as he was using them as commercial trucks.   
MM

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

haywire woodlot

Sorry to hear about your troubles with ford, Bruce. I bought my '03 6.0 used and have never had to deal with our local dealer except to get the odd part. I recently put the truck through a bit of a midlife refit, at 150 000 km. This included an EGR delete kit, replacement of ccp sensor, Icp sensor, new batteries and brakes all the way 'round.( how great is it to have discs on the rear too now?) When we had the intake manifold and turbo off to service the egr, it was a good time to change the Icp sensor as computer was showing a p2285 code, injector control sensor circuit low. The intake screen of the hpop was also dirty and may have been causing the code too.

Hope this helps,
Dave

Cypressstump

Best advice I can give you is to join - powerstokeowners.org

wealth of info there, if something has happened with a stoker, those guys have already been there and done that , and have the short cuts and cost savings down pat.
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

flip

OK, this is my specalty.  The ICP sensor tells the computer how much pressure is in the high pressure oil rail.  Essentially the computer will call for a certain pressure based on driving conditions, sends signal to IPR which regulates how much the pump is putting out.  We have seen a piece of "something" leave the pump and punch a hole in the screen of the IPR and cause it to stick open, closed or both.  There is a screen under the HP pump that fails and allows junk in the pump.  Since the IPR is screwed into the oil rail it is subject to those extreme pressures.  We regularly see oil leaking through the center of the sensor, through the connector and wiring.  We fix this by replacing the connector and short pigtail wire. 

If I was able to remember how to post pics. I could show you what fails in the FICM (lowest bidder anyone).  Y-pipe is also a "common" issue.  Where it cracks and leaks the exhast gasses is very close to the fresh air intake (passenger side cowl) area.

The dealer, like us, is not allowed to give out our Ford rep's contact information.  If they are a "select" dealer they probably don't have one or know who it is.  If a concern has escalated to the point where the rep. needs to get involved we will give him or her the customer's contact info. and they WILL call you.  Your sutuation sounds like a dealer did a bad repair when the IPR, pump and ICP were replaced.  If this is the case, the dealer should have made it right.  I suggest contacting either the general manager or the dealer himself if you feel you need to escalate your complaint.

I feel for you, I have been in service since the sico (6.0) came out and it really did a number on our diesel owner base.  6.4 has not been a whole lot better but the 6.7 that Ford is building in house is awesome.  Not a whole lot I can do and there are no recalls that will help with your current situation.  If you need information I will do my best to help.  Best of luck
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

submarinesailor

Flip,

Thanks for the info.  I will take the time to contact the General Manager of the dealership to see if he will do thing.  If he doesn't, I will elevate it to Ford and to the BBB.

One more question for you.  Is it possible to damage the radiator while lying on top of it to replace the HP oil pump?  Now it appears that the radiator is leaking in several places around the top.

Bruce

Bobus2003

All i can say is "Good Luck" if you take it to the Higher Ups. Pretty much anything that relates to the 6.0l is a Sore area for Ford.. I Turned in Ford and the Dealer to the BBB for my truck and I contacted my States Attorney General.. in the End they Gave me a "Free" 7 year 200K warranty. But Fin the long run Ford lost Millions in Warranty Repairs, and Navistar lost Millions, Thus the reason the Ford/Navistar Partnership parted ways. I had Lots of Trouble with my 6.0l.. It was in the Shop for 6 months of the first Year I owned it, It had a New Engine put in it at 34K miles because it Decided to Run-away due to Bad injectors.. To be honest the 6.0l can be a good engine, if your not afraid of putting money in it.. and it is a high mileage truck you have so the parts were getting to there replacment age.. If it was brand new or just replaced parts that failed.. then it would be a different story

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