Is there any glue that can be used to secure a axe handle?

[TW]

I am making a new handle for an old broad axe. The hole in the axe head is conical only one way which means that no wedge can be used. In the old days they smeared the end of the handle with pine tar and dipped it in ash before they banged it into the hole for good. This was not very secure so I wonder if there is any better way to do it.

[woodbowl]

The hole in the axe head is conical only one way which means that no wedge can be used.

If it is conical, the big end of the cone goes on the wedge end. If your right handed, it may be a left handed broad ax and vise versa.  Uhh ................ is the ax head on upside down?  ;D

[TW]

I can see that I have to explain it further.

The broadaxe is made by Billnäs Bruk. They made them with a hole that is conical towards the handle only. In the end where the wedge would normally be is only a small hole.  Finnish broadaxes are often that way. I have another one with an old handle that got loose and it was simply pyramid-shaped.
I have asked the old men in the village about how to do and one of them teached the tar and ash trick. Another said that it was a problem in the old days too.
There is no difference between right and left on the heads of the broad axes here. They have bewels on both sides.

I checked the translation on internet "bila" should be translated broad-axe.

[etat]

The best I could think of would be a two part epoxy glue perhaps, or even maybe mix up some fiberglass.  I have no idea how well it would hold up, but probably better than tar and ash. Somewhere around here I've got a old grubbing hoe that has a curved metal wedge drove in from the handle side.  Not from the end where you say the small hole would be. .    It wedges between the handle and the tool, and looks OLD and original to the tool.  About a half inch of it still today sticks out in case it ever needed to be drove in some more and tightened, so far it hasn't had to be.  Can't be one hundred percent sure though cause it's older than I am.   Perhaps something like that for a wedge would help keep it tight too. 

[woodbowl]

          ........................... Why would a manufacturer make an ax head to cone out toward the handle? My can't hook does but it has a keeper screw on the side.

[hayton1960]

Waterproof floor tile adhesive (Very strong, gap filling) might work??
They must have made the axes that way for some good reason I supose. I saw a lot of French tools (hoes, sickles pitch forks mattocks etc that had small steel wedges driven into the end to spread the end of the handle). How steep is the "pyramid" angle. If its quite gradual (say 6-8 degrees) you could hold it with your tar or pitch or whatever, and also a steel wedge or two, so it would fix like a tapered tenon on a windsor chair seat.  Just a thought
Cheers Jonathan

[Ernie]

If you are going to use an epoxy, get one with some plasticiser in it to absorb the shocks of use.  Most polyesters (fibreglass resins) are too rigid/brittle to take much shock.

CIBA Geigy used to have (28 years ago) a suitable resin I'd try to get a bit as a sample ;D ;D and have a go.

[TW]

The taper is very long and gradual. I do not necsessarily need much gap-filling, it is just a case of patience and accuracy as when fitting an ordinary axe handle. The only problem with epoxy is how to remove it if the handle breaks and has to be replaced.

[TexasTimbers]

I have a hard time visualizing things, unless I dream it up etc. but if I can see this correctly, can you pre-drill the handle and screw a long Timber Lok type screw or 1/4" lag screw with a washer into the handle from the end as insurance after you use your adhesive?
The fastener alone would not hold up over time but coupled with the adhesive I would think it would be more permanent.
Pre-drilling is essential.

[hayton1960]

Hello again TW
As far as you know there was no fixing other than the carefully shaped wood stuck into the metal with the tar/ash coating? I was thinking about this, and couldnt work out why they used ashes on top of the tar originally?? Wouldnt that ruin a good adhesive affect? Did they have a good reason to do that? The tar will give a bit but I reckon would possibly snap in the very cold north climate? Have you thought about neolithic tree resin glue
http://www.abotech.com/Articles/Spear01.htm?
At least if you used the the tar option, it will be easy to remove from the metal with gentle warmth (not enough to ruin the temper) or white spirit or turps.
Cheers Jonathan

[Jim_Rogers]

Tom, my partner in the tool business, told me of a story where an old Axe making company would use a pail of sand. This pail was place on a stove or fire and made hot. Then the Axe handle was placed into this hot sand. The hot sand would force the water in the wood in the handle up to the other end of the handle, shrinking the head end of the handle. Next the handle was placed into the Axe head. Allowing it to cool naturally. The cooling process would draw the water in the handle back to the end that was in the head and swell it up to make it hold.
I'm not sure if the old timers you are talking about used "hot" ash or not but if it was hot then this could be the same method to shrink the handle so it would fit the head.
Something to think about.

Jim Rogers

[TW]

The spruce resin glue does not sound as a good idea because when the turpentine evaporates the resin will dry and become brittle, if I got it right. At least in -20 degrees celsius. In fact I did not ask specificly if the ash was used hot or cold but I just assumed it was cold. I will ask it. After all theese suggestions it seems like polyester or epoxy may be possible if I only find a way to remove it when replacing the handle in the future.
So how to remove epoxy?

I see that I have to try to get a photograph of the axe. I have no scanner nor digital camera so I will have to ask some friend for help.

[raycon]

Jim thats pretty cool I'm going to try that. I have an old adze with the same type of head reverse taper no handle yet...
Trunnels can be  inserted the same way.  Dry out the trunnel diameter reduces -- put it  to use and it expands reabsorbing moisture from the wood surrounding it.

[hayton1960]

Hello again TW
I've never had to remove epoxy resin from steel. The only time I used it was to fix a billhook into an ash handle, and it looks good for many years to come, no sign of looseness or break yet. But I guess shotblasting or sand blasting might work if you had to redo a handle? Or one of those little toy "dremel" tools ;)? Or acetone or other solvent (I have grown to dislike chemicals, but that might work as well) Somebody with more experience must know some method that works?! :P

Jim and Raycon, some chairmakers use that hot sand technoque so as to get tight tenons when they fit up the legs to the seat, but if they overdo it, the seat can sometimes split when the leg tenon re-expands. In fact I may be wrong, but I think I once heard that even an axe can bust open if the wood handle expands to much inside ???

Cheers Jonathan

[mark davidson]

I have a similar broadaxe, from austria.
I fitted the handle carefully and it drove in and has stayed put now for over 10 years. You can help the fitting process by rubbing some crayon in the hole to show which wood is too big. Glue sounds like a bugger to deal with when the handle breaks. could you not back wedge from your small hole with a steel wedge?
alternately, drilling a keeper hole may help, but you would be altering the tool(I do this all the time, I'd rather have a functional old tool than an antique which sits in the corner and looks bored).

[Tom]

I sure wish one of you guys would post a picture.  I'm having a hard time visualizing the problem and can't imagine anyone designing an axe head to fit on the handle the way my twisted mind is picturing this. :D

[Coon]

My grandfather and great grandfather both used to make axes, picks, shovels, and a variety of other hand tools and sold them to local farmers and such.  I have an old broad axe, adze, cant hook, and a couple of single edge axes to name of a few hand me downs that my great grandfather built.  He made handles for these tools only from the very best and straightest grained hardwoods that he could find.  He often used white birch, diamond willow, red wilow, and elder to make the handles for these tools.  Along with these hand hewn and whittled handles they used a process of using rawhide leather and a spruce tar of some kind.  These handles stay put as to say seeing that I have never seen any of these handles work loose let alone break.  The weathering of the wood was the biggest of the concerns with these handles and thus they usually gave the handle a finishing coat or two of the same spruce tar mixture.  Some of the tools that have been passed down to me are in the neighborhood of 65-70 years old and are still very useable and show very little wear.   If I can convince my grandfather to come down one day I will get him to show me exactly how this process is done.  Sort of a family secret of kinds in the process of doing this.  I have tried to do this process from what I know in my mind and it failed drastically.

My brother in law should be home from work this weekend.  I'll try to remember to tell him to bring his digital camera down as I have many picture to take to share with FF members.

[Fla._Deadheader]

I've soaked handles in water after they loosen in a tool. Works for a while as they swelled up. That hot sand is ingenious.  8) 8)

[woodbowl]

Does anyone know what helps keep a handle from rotting. Yea, ... I know, keep it out of the weather. Trouble is, my cant hooks bounce around in the back of the truck all the time both rain and shine. I'm not sure what to do other than letting it soak in copper tox.

[beenthere]

woodbowl
Logrite has the answer.  8)

[woodbowl]

Ha Ha ............. I knew that was comming. 

[TW]

I have tried to get someone to take the picture that is needed but with no sucsess. There are not that many digital cameras around.


I think I should ask some boatbuilder about the properties of epoxy and how to remove it.
The problem is that we make axe handles from birch in Finland and birch is softer than hickory or ash.
A softer handle is more prone to work loose.

The old carpenters managed somehow so I think i can find some solution.

[hayton1960]

good luck with your project TW please give us an update to let us know how sucessful you were
Cheers Jonathan ;)

[Bill H]

I think most two part epoxies let go at around 180-200 degrees F. so all you need to do is heat it up after you break the handle and it should slide/drive out.
Bill

[TW]

Bill  I have thought about that.
That may be the solutin if anybody finds a way to heat it without risking to destroy the hardening. Then  is a question what the properties of the destroyed epoxy residue in the eye will be.
Does the new epoxy stick to it?
Can I get it out?