Need Advise on Seeding a New Woods Road

g_man · September 14, 2015, 11:22:18 AM

I just completed about a 1/4 mile of tractor road. I am thinking that I should probably seed it but don't want to throw my money away. It is almost completely in the shade so I am wondering if the conservation mix I usually use will even grow. This is in northern Vermont. Should I bother to seed it and if so what should I use. Thank you.

gg

Ron Scott · September 14, 2015, 12:51:07 PM

You might just consider seeding parts of it for vegetative diversity and wildlife such as the more open areas, etc, with a wildlife seed mixture or rye and fescue or the conservation mixture that you use. It usually helps if you have a soils analysis of the area and it usually doesn't take long for the natural vegetation to seed in also. Give care to any areas that may be prone to erosion and any deep cut banks by using best management practices.

g_man · September 15, 2015, 06:06:34 AM

Thanks Ron

thecfarm · September 15, 2015, 07:26:22 AM

I went on a field day with the grandkids school to teach them about logging. Just about the first thing the logger said,if the ground is cleared off and it's not paved over,something will grow. I never forgot that. I have done the same as you did,but I found ALOT more rocks than you did,and never had a problem. But I don't have much run off either. I did do a road that was in the middle of a hill,but did not have any problems with it washing out. Maybe I got lucky too. I am glad to see you are concerned about your land. I enjoy working the land.

petefrom bearswamp · September 15, 2015, 08:45:34 AM

Consulting forester for 25 yrs, many logging rds/skid trails on my jobs only one seeded per logging ordinance regs.
Natural veg establishes quickly unless heavy traffic is maintained.
Yours looks pretty flat so erosion should not be an issue.

g_man · September 18, 2015, 07:08:52 AM

The night after I asked for advise we got over 2" of rain. Hard at times. The road stayed good. Only one small puddle which will be easy to fix. I will be using the road later this fall to skid out some fir so I think I will leave it and see what nature does in the spring. Thanks for all the comments.

gg

4x4American · September 18, 2015, 07:14:01 AM

I agree ^ something will grow. Seed is spendy don't waste your money!

Clark · September 18, 2015, 08:43:06 AM

Around here clover is popular to use on trails like yours. The real benefit is for grouse hunters. For reasons I can't explain grouse love that clover in the fall, jumping them off trails is almost a sure bet when you seeded clover in.

Clark

Chuck White · September 19, 2015, 09:33:13 AM

If this woods road is in an area where you don't have a "food plot", keep in mind that the roadway itself can become a food plot!

Magicman · September 25, 2015, 01:49:18 PM

That is my strategy Chuck on all of my woods roads. Natural vegetation only. If I plant something it becomes competition with my deer food plots.

WV Mountaineer · September 25, 2015, 08:36:41 PM

The trick is going to be whether the road is "good" after the skidding. Get it drained after logging. Personally, I would seed it and seed it heavily after getting the logs out. I would use white clover and frost seed right before the ground starts to thaw in the spring. By mid spring, you will have a beautiful stand of baby clover. Next spring it will look like a bright green chlorophyll carpet. Beautiful. White clover seed is cheap. Wildlife benefit is great. For $30 bucks total investment, counting a bag of 10-10-10, you would have a meca of food for all things that crawl and walk. And, it will maintain well for several years until native vegetation takes it over. At which point, it becomes even better with the natural forge cover crop protecting your clover. Want to talk about wildlife food plot? After several years there will be sucha dverse browse species in that road, it will be a hot spot for them.

Clover does well in shady areas. It's biggest problem in the typical field food plot setting is it fried out in late summer. No problems there in the woods. I would seriously hesitate to plant fescue of any kind, any where besides a water crossing or, place of potential erosion. It takes over. So does rye. But rye is good wildlife stuff too. Seeds are not expensive until you get into blended mixes. White clover is ridiculously cheap and, with the prep you have, a no brainer for the benefit that it will give. Since the prep work and equipment is where the true cost lies in all plantings, reap the reward by spending $30 and 1.5 hours of your time when done skidding on the road and regrading it. God Bless

g_man · September 26, 2015, 05:44:53 PM

I am getting some good info all thru this thread - Thanks. It is good to know that white clover does good in the shade. I think that is the way I will go early next spring.

Magicman · September 27, 2015, 02:29:39 PM

Ryegrass is shade tolerant and can be planted now.

Ljohnsaw · September 27, 2015, 08:41:15 PM

My woods road has ferns popping up all over (hard to see the road) and little tiny pines (about 2" tall) all over the place! The ferns were up at the first rain (6 months) and I didn't notice the pines until we were picking up shell casings after some target practice. I did nothing - nature did it all.

pappy19 · October 04, 2015, 11:58:13 AM

Erosion control and re-vegetation is one of my strong suits and I would recommend a mix of "Regreen" wheat grass that is very hardy and germinates quickly. It has a really good root system and will tolerate shade or open. Your local seed outfit may have another name for it, but it is a sterile "mother" wheat grass. Have the seed company add some native mix and a little rye grass.

wfcjr · November 17, 2015, 10:58:14 AM

Quote from: g_man on September 26, 2015, 05:44:53 PM
I am getting some good info all thru this thread - Thanks. It is good to know that white clover does good in the shade. I think that is the way I will go early next spring.

The white clover may do OK in the shade, but may not do OK with the ph of the remaining soil on the road.
From the looks of it, the road cuts through softwoods and that type of forest soil tends to be acidic, at least it does on
our property.

Clear cut a couple of acres 7-8 years ago in the midst of softwoods to put in food plots. Had to lime the heck out of them for the clover.

Will be doing some road work on our place soon. Since we are also in VT, will be interested to see what works for you in terms of cover and what you decide to do reference seeding the road. Let us know what you decide & how it works out.

g_man · November 23, 2015, 09:52:27 AM

The soil is definitely poor and acidic going thru there. Where there is light small ferns, moss, bunch berries, and may flowers grow.

Where there was little light until I cut a swath the ground cover is sparse and limited to ferns and moss.

Right now I am cutting in there and plan on seeding in the spring. I guess I need something acid loving. Never thought of that, so thanks wfcjr

gg

wfcjr · November 23, 2015, 12:53:36 PM

Quote from: g_man on November 23, 2015, 09:52:27 AM
The soil is definitely poor and acidic going thru there. Where there is light small ferns, moss, bunch berries, and may flowers grow.

gg

G-man,

Not sure that "the soil is definitely poor". It may just be acidic. When we have put food plots in our woods after clear cutting, the soil is definitely acidic in the former softwood stands. But once it gets some lime and the ph gets back in shape, it is actually quite good soil for growing. Very dark and rich in organic matter. One of our best plots (forage yield wise) is in a former softwood stand.

Nice trails by the way...

Holmes · November 25, 2015, 07:23:04 PM

The cfarm is right. Where are the rocks and boulders. They must have all rolled down to Ma. and Me. That ground looks easy to work.. Nice trails also.

g_man · November 28, 2015, 05:33:39 PM

Sorry to disappoint you on the rocks and boulders :D
It is amazing how it varies. Some places there are more rocks than dirt but I have to admit that road was easier than most.

gg

wfcjr · December 06, 2015, 11:37:32 AM

Quote from: g_man on November 23, 2015, 09:52:27 AM
The soil is definitely poor and acidic going thru there. Where there is light small ferns, moss, bunch berries, and may flowers grow.

Where there was little light until I cut a swath the ground cover is sparse and limited to ferns and moss.

Right now I am cutting in there and plan on seeding in the spring. I guess I need something acid loving. Never thought of that, so thanks wfcjr

gg

In the second pic, looks like you have ears on your blade for a root rake/brush rake and it looks like
you have it mounted on the blade. Is that accurate?

Were you clearing the trails with your blade or with the brush rake? Just curious.

g_man · December 06, 2015, 05:27:04 PM

In both those pictures I was using a rake

I am a novice and self taught at that so what I say may be all wrong. My goal is to make tractor roads. A little rough is OK. I have found that the less dirt I move the better off I am. If I drop the blade into the dirt and push more often than not I find more rocks than dirt. So if I don't need to make any real cuts I use the rake to get out the rocks sticking above the surface and stumps. That section of road was pretty easy.

Here are three pictures of basically the same place. Before raking, after raking, and then after back dragging and packing with the tracks.

If it is like this I go with the blade.

It took me quite a while before I had much confidence and had a feel for how to go about it. No one is watching or paying for my work so if I am slow and inefficient it is OK.

gg

thecfarm · December 06, 2015, 09:30:02 PM

I like your land,not many rocks!!! I try not to dig much in the woods. Some places are not too bad,but others are impossible to do anything with. The stumps are cut as low as I can and I drive over them. If I was doing that on my land,there would be rocks exposed. Kinda like kicking a hornets nest. The more you bother it,the more that comes out. ;D

Remle · December 08, 2015, 09:17:17 AM

Getting back to your original question, I would recommend mulching your roads to control soil erosion. It's true, that eventually the land will heal it's self. However from your pictures I see a limited supply of vegetation that will reseed the area before the next snow melt. Simply finding some old hay that was rained on during the haying season will help control erosion if put down before it snows and the seed contained in it will germinate and grow next spring. The weight of the snow will push it down into the soil to control the spring run off. At least that was the way we seeded new roads on my fathers farm.

DeerMeadowFarm · December 08, 2015, 10:54:28 AM

Hi G_Man - I like the work you're doing up in the NEK!

I always try to seed over my roads. I use clover and mix in some winter rye then mulch hay over it. The rye grows fast and kind of holds things together before the clover seed takes. Any slopes (and I have plenty) I make some water bars across the paths. Looking good!

Rich