Buying A Farm! (UPDATE: Deal Fell Through)

[Leigh Family Farm]

We have been searching for a property for the last few years. Finally one came on the market that met 95% of our needs, so we threw out an offer. Surprisingly the sellers didn't laugh at us when we underbid by $100k! After some heavy negotiations, as of last night, we went under contract for a 10.17 acre farm that is half open half woods. The house is 4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, 1820s stone farmhouse with a large 5 bay garage.

We are super excited. There is some work that needs to be done on the house. The roof is over 20 years old and on its last legs. The septic is too small, needs replacement. The heating furnace is good but old/inefficient (i.e. costly). The glass sliders and windows should be replaced but that might wait since they function for now. We will convert the two small bedrooms (10x10s) into a large master bedroom suite.

The garage is actually an old bank barn foundation that the previous owners converted. Unfortunately the roof was shallow pitched an recent caved in. I will have to address that before insurance will grant me a permanent policy. I will be asking for some advice on how to tackle that project.

I will post pictures shortly.

8) 8) 8) 8) Gonna be a farmer/homesteader/sawyer/crazy guy!!!

[Wudman]

Congrats!!  Nothing better than having a little dirt to cultivate and a place to sit the mill.

Wudman

[lxskllr]

Dude, that sounds awesome! I love old stone houses. Seems like there's always something to fix, but the character makes it worth it imo. Congratulations!

[AZ_builder]

It feels really good to be a land owner, feels even better when it's paid off! Congratulations on your new place.

[thecfarm]

Lucky you. Yes pictures!

[Ricker]

Nice.  The stone house revival show on the dyi channel is one if my favorites, look forward to seeing pic of your place.

[Southside]

I am really sorry to hear this.  A farm and a sawmill - two of the worst addictions a man can face, and at the same time no less.... :D  Seriously - congratulations, let the work  eh fun begin!!  

[Peter Drouin]

Good luck. 8)

[samandothers]

Congratulations!  Exciting time! Looking forward to your pictures.

[Leigh Family Farm]

I am really sorry to hear this.  A farm and a sawmill - two of the worst addictions a man can face, and at the same time no less.... :D  Seriously - congratulations, let the work eh fun begin!!  

I know. and I like guns... 
Pictures will be up on Tuesday-ish. Thats when I am doing a full walk through with the inspectors (home & well). 

[Leigh Family Farm]

As promised here are some pictures of the property.



 

Kitchen


 
Two pastures, fenced in. Thats the neighbor's house in the distance.


 
Inside one of the garages


 
This is what most of the woods look like. How can I clear this out?



 

 

One of the bedrooms. And main staircase below. Its about 4 feet wide!


 



Video tour of property coming soon! 

[Southside]

Well it looks like the kitchen is already painted to match a Wood-Mizer, so at least there won't be any color coordination conflict there!!   :D  As far as the woods go - that is prime material for a forestry mulcher, even a skid steer mounted unit would do wonders in there in short order and create you some additional pasture area.  

I like the sun porch!! 

[AZ_builder]

Awesome looking place!

[samandothers]

Very nice, I too like the sun porch.  The vines look similar to some we have in Va.  Radiator heat, plumbed to an outside boiler? ;D

[thecfarm]

Two fireplaces? One on each end of the house?

[Leigh Family Farm]

Yea there is a fireplace on either end of the house. Supposedly both work but I need to confirm that first.

[Leigh Family Farm]

Walking tour of the farm - YouTube

A short video tour of the property. Any suggestions on the garage roof? I will post more pictures later.

[btulloh]

Nice place.  Someone's done a lot of work on that house.  Looks good.  

What's the heating plant like?  An OWB might be a good thing if you're so inclined.

X2 on the forestry mulcher.  That's the perfect tool to clean up some of the woods.

Thanks for the tour.

[Leigh Family Farm]

@btulloh - the heating system is an oil furnace that heats water filled radiators throughout the main farmhouse with one thermostat. The kitchen is on a single electric wall radiator with its own thermostat. I will look into an OWB in the future. For now, I am ok will a furnace just not happy with the limited zones and electric in the kitchen. When I have the furnace inspected and a work estimate given, I will ask about adding the kitchen to the system. 

thank you for the suggestions of the forestry mulcher. I will probably hire that out to someone or see if I can rent one for a week or so. They are too expensive to buy just for a few acres of clearing. 

[btulloh]

I'd probably hire out the forestry mulcher.  Running one of those in tight quarters takes some practice.  I hired a guy with skid steer to do a few acres for me and it was the best money I ever spent.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Thanks for the tour. Congrats on the farm. I can't believe it when I see flat land and no rocks everywhere but I guess there are actually places like that. :D

   If I understood correctly the walls on the garage are reasonably sound and the uprights looked like they are intact and usable. If it was me I'd repair/rebuild it especially since it looks like you will have access to plenty of lumber for framing and such. Good luck.

[Southside]

Just curious - what's with the cooling towers next door?

[Ruffgear]

I would tear the old garage down and start over. Anything you lose in materials you will save in labor. And you will have a building built to your needs

[SwampDonkey]

Congrats on your new piece of heaven. Looks nice and flat and easy to work on. ;D

I would remove the old garage, 4 hr job or less, tops. Hauled off and smoothed up for a new one.

[lxskllr]

Great place! I'd do the woods cleanup with a chainsaw, cause that's what I've been doing, cleaning woods with a chainsaw. Get the vines first, then you can go in with a machine. You've got forever, and you'll eventually want a skid steer, cause who doesn't want a skid steer? Since you'll have already taken the vines down, you can backdrag the stickers and little stuff to get rid of it.

[WV Sawmiller]

   How nostalgic are you? How much is that old stone work in the garage worth to you? How old and how much craftsmanship is shown there? Is it worth saving? New from scratch is easy but people aren't building fieldstone walls/buildings any more. Please keep that in mind for your decision making.

[lxskllr]

Being fanciful, I think a timber structure over the garage foundation would be pretty slick. Dunno if that's in your skillset or budget. Generally speaking, I'm a preservationist. Unless something is complete garbage, I try to salvage/maintain it. I like history, and try to keep things as they were. Otherwise, tarps are cheap  :^P

[Woodpecker52]

Green Acres is the place to be........keep Man hat in just give me that country side.

[Roxie]

 You get an "atta boy" for investing in such a beautiful home.  I loved the video walk through, and it just so happens that I too, love Southeastern Pennsylvania.

If your garage were mine, I would preserve those stone walls at all costs.  I'd go directly to the Amish for the tear down and rebuild.  They are experts in the field of salvaging and using every piece that can be saved.  They are, after all, the original low impact farmer and construction workers. 

[Leigh Family Farm]

Just curious - what's with the cooling towers next door?

Those are for the nuclear power plant across the river. Some people don't like it, but it doesn't bother me. Good news is that the power company put in a sub station at the end of the dead road the farm is on. Paved brand new asphalt all the way to the sub station. I don't think I'll be losing power or having to plow the road anytime soon! 

  How nostalgic are you? How much is that old stone work in the garage worth to you? How old and how much craftsmanship is shown there? Is it worth saving? New from scratch is easy but people aren't building fieldstone walls/buildings any more. Please keep that in mind for your decision making.

I will be keeping the walls. The stone is super thick and in great shape. There is some minor mortar/pointing work that needs to be done but other than that they are good to go. I will save as much of the supports, posts, and beams as I can. they might not get re-used in their original spot but they will get used. Eventually I would love to put in a timber frame structure above the garage. I don't have the skills yet but I do have the time to learn! 

Thankfully, my insurance broker found a company that will insure the property excluding the outbuildings. We will still have 100% liability coverage, just not structure or personal property on the garage/barn. This will give me time to dismantle the roof and small side building as money permits. Then move forward with a design suitable to my needs. 

Right now, we are negotiating with the seller over septic perc testing fees. The septic failed, which we knew it would, but the previous owner put in a grey water system which is not allowed here when you have a septic system. Because I don't know what the county will allow for a septic system, I am asking the sellers to pay for the testing or lower their price accordingly. all in all, we are happy with the land as it is and the house is livable. 

Does anyone know how to drain a field or deal with standing water issues after a heavy rain? The land is very soggy after a rain and I noticed on my last visit that there was a small pond-sized puddle in the corner of the fenced pasture.   

[btulloh]

Good luck with the septic thing.  There's always a way, but it depends on the county regs for sure.

I would wait and see on the drainage thing.  It might be ok except during spring thaw, and it's been an unusually wet year.  It might not be a big problem most years.  Check and see what the local rain/snow totals are this year compared to long term.

Sometimes a little light grading can make a big difference.  Depends on your topo of course.  Sometimes you can just open a little swale where a high area developed and dammed up a low spot.  Sometimes it takes major re-grading and installation of drainage channels or tiles (expensive).  Every situation is unique.  

If it's been the way it is for a long time, it'll probably be ok after spring thaw.

[Roxie]

The water tables in this area are very high.  Last years total rainfall was 60" and normal yearly totals are 33".  Folks are finding springs where none existed before. 

I was joking with my friends that we were living in Seattle, and found out that we really did have more rainy days last year than the State of Washington. 

[red]

If you have a Pond then get Ducks

[SwampDonkey]

One thing to consider to, is those trees back there help suck up moisture when they are growing. ;D It's hard to drain well on flat land, the water just lays and soaks, very slow flow. Tends to be heavy clay under that.

[Leigh Family Farm]

The contract for the farm property fell through  :embarassed: 

Last week, our lender notified us that the financing terms were no longer doable. Originally we would put 10% down and then request a renovation loan (second mortgage/HELOC/etc.) after closing on the property. The loan officer told us that this was possible and everything looked great from our end. Now, the lender cannot do a renovation loan without 20% down, which would have used up every last penny of cash we had leaving nothing in reserve. That left us with doing a 5% FHA loan and paying for the renovations ourselves then cash out re-fi to pay off the renovations. Not the end of the world but definitely would have wanted to know this before going under contract. 

We spent the getting estimates for replacing the roof, septic, DIY materials, etc. The new course of action was to boost the value of the home as fast as possible to cash out refi and then tackle the master bedroom remodel. Roofer came back with $32k and septic was about the same. Its a huge roof since the house is almost 3,000 sqft. plus wrap-around porches with skylights and gutters, flashing, soffits, etc. The septic was estimated as a drip system, which is the most expensive, but we would not know the actual type of system until perc tests were done. Also, the garage repair was estimated at $18k. 

Long story short: too many issues, too many risks, not enough money or financing. We terminated the contract this morning.

I will keep this thread open and updated as we continue our search for the homestead. Happy Monday everyone!

[doc henderson]

sorry to hear this one did not work out.  Maybe for a reason.  Good Luck

[alan gage]

Sorry to hear that. It's always disappointing to have the rug pulled out from under you on something that seems like a done deal. I wish you luck in your continued search.

Alan

[WV Sawmiller]

   Sorry to hear this. I know what it is like to get your hopes up then have something stop you from buying the place you want. Lets hope you find another place you like as well or better. I have had that happen too. You never can tell, if nobody else comes up with a better offer the seller or lender may change their mind and come back to you on your terms.

[Woodpecker52]

Sound like the real green acres farm with the door falling off all the time.  There are other farms out there some with owners willing to carry the note themselves, beat the bushes check with ag dept in county etc.

[lxskllr]

Ah, sorry it didn't work out. Sucks when you get that close, and it falls through. It's already yours in your head, you're planning everything you're gonna do, and then it gets snatched away. There's better places out there. You just have to ferret them out. Good luck on the coming search!

[SwampDonkey]

Sometimes something like that makes you rethink it anyway. "Is this really what I want to get into?" Seemed like a lot of fixing and financing to fix it. Wow, septic is some high down there. Drain field, tubes, and tank, connections, sand, topsoil and excavating is 1/3 of that here and $CDN besides.

[hedgerow]

I have been living on farms for 35 years. In that time frame I have lived on two different ones. I have always farmed and worked in town so I could farm. I am luck and the farm pays for the up keep on the house and buildings. I have worked with a lot of folks over the years that bought old farm steads as acreages if you can't do the work your self or have a friend that can do it big repairs like wells, septic, electrical and building repairs run into money real quick. Both places I have lived at needed all the above when I bought the farms. I bought a old trencher backhoe and did all the septic well work and buried the electrical. We remodeled both houses down to the studs new every thing. We did all the work. When we bought the section of ground we live on now we went completely  threw this now 100 year old farm house. We sold the other place we had lived at for close to 20 years with the pole buildings and five acres and made some nice money and kept the rest of the 160 acres. I hope you find your forever home. I don't think I could ever move back to town. 

[Leigh Family Farm]

Sometimes something like that makes you rethink it anyway. "Is this really what I want to get into?" Seemed like a lot of fixing and financing to fix it. Wow, septic is some high down there. Drain field, tubes, and tank, connections, sand, topsoil and excavating is 1/3 of that here and $CDN besides.

The original septic was a cesspool with a holding tank and both were not working properly. The building inspector and septic inspector both said that they think the water table is too high and won't perc right. Erring on the side of caution, I called around to a few septic places to see what the worst case scenario would have been. All of them said the drip system was the most expensive to install and would cost anywhere from $20k-$35k. If the ground did perc right, a brand new system might have cost around $10k all in. That difference in price was too much for our budget to handle. 

[hedgerow]

In my area when you have a problem with the soil perking correctly a lagoon is normally the way to go. Its a lot cheaper to install and usually easy to hide behind some trees. Had some friends that bought a acreage and were having problems with the sewer backing up because of perking problems. The folks that lived their before didn't have kids and never had a problem. These folks have four kids lots more showers and clothes to wash. His wife didn't want a lagoon so we added some more fields its worked out ok but they still have some issues if we have a wet spring and lot of showers and clothes washed on a weekend. 

[Leigh Family Farm]

@hedgerow - anything like a lagoon type system is prohibited in the area, especially since the property borders the Schuykill River (skoo-kell). 

Honestly, we are hopeful that the property will sit on the market for several months so we might be able to out in a better offer down the road. We can wait. 

[rjwoelk]

With a nuclear power plant that close it really will reduce it, as most folks will shy away. I would look at all the costs of rebuild and knock that off the price. The other thing is if you ever want to sell it down the road will you get your money out of it. Good luck.
Out our way we can pump our water side of the septic tank out on the surface. We do have good drainage and my thoughts are that this gives the sun a chance to dry it up and the uv to destroy bugs etc.

[hedgerow]

Good luck with the acreage search. If this doesn't work out in the end it wasn't meant to be. Be careful in the acreage search. I have known too many folks that had bit off more that they could chew. Living of a acreage is not cheaper that living in town.There are a lot of added cost people forget sometimes.  Its no fun to be house poor and you are working all the time to pay for the house. 

[Corley5]

There are times I think a little place on a half acre would be just fine

[sawguy21]

I am sorry your plans fell through but honestly not surprised with such a low down payment. Our lending institutions have really tightened the screws, anything under 20% requires mortgage default insurance from government run CMHC and they are not fun to deal with.
That place while very attractive needs a LOT of work and money, I think you would have quickly found yourselves in over your head. Count your blessings and move on. Good luck.

[thecfarm]

I could make a 250 foot square house lot look good. All the time!! 

[crowhill]

Sorry to hear the deal fell through...
    
        Not that I know much about mortgages today as so much has changed in the financial world... Check with Credit Unions if you haven't. I do know our local credit union bends over backwards with creative financing / mortgages such as owner construction and renovations.

[Leigh Family Farm]

I could make a 250 foot square house lot look good. All the time!!

@thecfarm I'm sure you could!!