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Tree Farmer Deutz engine speed

Started by jdatwood, June 13, 2018, 06:19:35 PM

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jdatwood

Hey all,
Could someone tell me how to turn down the engine on my tree Farmer C5D? It's got the Deutz F5L912 engine and a Bosch fuel pump. For now I've set the stop screw on the accelerator pedal (at the fuel pump) but I'm out of adjustment and it's still a bit fast. I think someone cranked the fuel pressure up at some point, the motor screams like a Detroit if you put the pedal to the metal. Something will break if left that way. There must be a fuel pressure screw someplace to set the max engine speed right? 

mike_belben

Post a picture of the pump.. Or the model #
Praise The Lord

Maine logger88

My guess is a Bosch A pump. That's what the duetz I tinkered on had
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

jdatwood

It's a Bosch PES pump with and RSV governor. On the governor there's three adjustments, one for the idle, one for the bumper spring. Third one a screw to adjust the throttle linkage travel. I've adjusted the linkage screw all the way out and it's still a bit too fast. Only thing I could think of was to get a longer bolt. I was hoping there was a way to turn down the pressure someplace though and avoid bottoming a screw against the pedal, I don't think that'd last long. Maybe that's the best I can do, figured I'd ask. There's a lot of knowledge here on the forum and I bet someone knows the answer. 

mike_belben

I know the RQV fairly well but not RSV.  This the one?



This is non turbo?

PES pumps have inline orientation with plungers and barrels that rotate to meter fuel injection quantity by revealing a spill port to a helical cut in the plunger.  Full spill = shutoff and no spill = full fuel.  Your governor flyweight should be pulling back the barrel rack to reduce injection quantity when target RPM is achieved.  Either the weights are off, a spring is the wrong tension or a spring preload adjustment is outta wack.  You need less rack travel under load.  
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mike_belben

That looks to be a tension spring in there with metal straps.  Good chance the eye of the spring has eaten into the eye in the strap and thus created a looser tension situation.  If it works like i think, that'd do it.

There is no "backing off the pressure"  on these systems.  The injector is a poppet style, i suspect either the delivery valve or injector valve will fail to pop if you were to somehow crank it down.  Youd just cause more trouble imo. 
Praise The Lord

jdatwood

Wow, okay. Sounds like I may have some issues with that pump then and not a simple adjustment problem. It's a non turbo 5 cylinder air cooler Deutz. Being air cooled it's a little louder than most motors but still certainly turning way up in RPM. I guess I'll need to start by getting a tachometer on that engine and getting an exact running speed. This repair sounds like it needs a professional. 

mike_belben

Well, still there should be some sort of physical adjustment of the governors flyweight threshold.   I doubt it requires altering the weights themselves like an old auto transmission.  On RQV and dodge Ppumps there is a big plug cover and the governor has a spring for each flyweight, you rotate until you see the spring and click the preload seat tighter or looser then do other side and recap.   But i dont know the RSV procedure.  


You want a hot farm sledpuller.. Theyll know that pump.  CompetitionDiesel.com forums is a good place.  Im sure theres a dozen guys there who build em. 

But ya get the tach out first.
Praise The Lord

jdatwood

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give that a try. 

JB Griffin

Most deutz tractors operating speed was 2100 engine rpm for 540 pto rpm, thats with the f3l912 and f4l912 and f4l913 turbo. So thats what I would shoot for as a max speed though my tractor (f4l912) goverens at 2300 or 2400 rpm, baling hay or bush hoggin I always ran it at 1900 rpm and never lacked for power and couldn't justify the the extra fuel to run it any faster.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

jdatwood

I pulled the governor off this morning and cleaned/inspected it. Nothing looks worn or out of place. Only thing I can come up with is the spring is too strong (I doubt) or what I'm really thinking based on watching how this works is the throttle linkage is wrong. I would think you'd need a throttle that has some sort of spring so when the governor resists the throttle arm it can push back and ease the fuel off. I have a direct rod from the governor to the pedal. There's an open hole up by the pedal where there could be such a devise missing. Does it sound like on on the right track? I'm driving past DAVCO today and they've got a Deutz equipped tree Farmer in the yard I can compare throttle linkage parts with to see if I'm correct. What do you think about this theory? If I'm pushing it to the metal I don't see how it's going to lift my leg up to ease the throttle back but with an indirect connection with a spring or cam I can see maybe how it'd work. 

mike_belben

Sounds reasonable.  If your foot is directly tied to the fuel rack then the foot is the governor. 
Praise The Lord

jdatwood

I looked at two separate Deutz equipped tree Farmer C5D's and they were both set up the same on the throttle pedal and linkage, only exception being they used the top hole on the throttle arm and mine was using one half way down. I can't imagine that's doing much harm but I'll put it like the others. The only thing that really stood out at me was the throttle arms seemed to actuate easier. That would suggest they have lighter springs which may do it. I really don't know...

snowstorm

get your hands on a photo tach then you will know what the high idle rpm really is. where are you??

jdatwood


snowstorm

i have a photo tach. your 20 miles away

jdatwood

I've got one coming, hopefully Monday. Thank you though! I'm starting to lean towards it being this spring, it's pretty stout. It's got yellow paint marking on it. I need to find some documents about the springs. Those little flywheel weights would have to push *DanG hard to move the lever back. The more throttle I give it the more difficult it is for the governor to push back and I think it's loosing. 

snowstorm

most pumps have a high idle screw on them. i would not take the pump apart if you dont really know all about them

jdatwood

Agreed, I'm stopping there at the governor. I wouldn't dare go any further. The high idle screw can be all the way maxed out and it's still screaming but better. I'm anxious to get a tach on it and see where it's at. 

Maine logger88

I agree with snowstorm get a tach and see where it's at it may just sound like it's turning fast but actually be what it's supposed to be
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

jdatwood

Alright... got a tach this afternoon. The engine was overspending quite a bit. It tached at 3100 RPM full throttle and idled at 975 RPM. Motor is rated at 2500 RPM. The way the throttle was set up was to pin out at the fuel pump and still have an inch gap at the floorboard under the pedal. Basically defeating the governor and running the motor WOT. I've got it turned down now to 2495 RPM and idling at 925 RPM. Pedal is adjusted to hit the floor like I'm used too on my skidders. You were right, it wasn't as bad as it sounded but certainly could tell it was way overspending. The sound is  deceiving with this air cooled motor. Sounds much better, like it's not taxing itself so hard. I'll probably order the light governor spring as well. I'm pretty sure it has the stiff one in, likely for over the road application. That governor from everything I read is good for about 3000 RPM +~- thanks for the help fellas!

Maine logger88

I guess it was over speeding quite abit! 
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

jdatwood

24% that's problematic... Glad it was mostly run in the winter, who knows how long it's been that way. Good way to shorten an engine life. I noticed pulling a big hitch of Hemlock I could go into high gear and it had over rev to the moon! Heated the clutch right up so I dropped back down a gear. Motor didn't have a care in the world, just kept screamin.

snowstorm

high idle with no load is usually 250rpm higher than high idle under load

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