felling limbed trees

[D Martin]

Ok, I limbed some pines out back to be felled so as to do less damage to the trees that are staying and to create an opening for a landing for some others. my question ,are limbed trees more likely to break while felling without limbs to absorb the shock and if what can be done to prevent that, short of getting a harvester to do it . I intend to mill all that I take down , broken pines are not even good firewood. any advice would be apreciated

[spencerhenry]

my experience is that green trees will bounce, and wobble, but rarely break. even standing lodgepole pine, with no branches until 70' dont usually break unless they hit a stump or a hole.

[D Martin]

I was hoping for that anwer. limbing was a pain but i think it'll keep the other trees a little healthier.

[rebocardo]

I can't speak for pine, only oak. If the tree hits hard, once you start milling it you will find the tree actually split into a peace sign (sort of) and cracked down the middle of the tree and once your boards are cut and/or start drying you are left with junk wood. Which is the problem I have with blow overs sometimes.

[Gary_C]

You are less likely to break a tree that is limbed before felling

Most forest grown pines are relatively limb free in the lower part and will not break unless they hit a rock or hill. Those large Scotch Pine with big limbs can sometimes break if they fall wrong right on top of a large limb.

A bigger hazzard with big limbs down low is the butt may kick back up off the stump when it falls and you better be back away when it hits.

[D Martin]

Ive got  few scotch pines. They dont look so good may be even a little dead I been thinkin bout takin em out. do they make good boards, say maybe siding?

[Gary_C]

Scotch pine is a good strong wood and it dries fast, but those big knots make it very difficult to cut straight because of the hard and soft spots.  I use it for 6 x 6 blocking under stacks of wood.

Would not recommend it for 1 x's because of the large knots.

Some of those scotch pine trees are more like bushes than trees. I cut a short one recently that was growing in the open and I thought it was gonig to roll away from me on the branches.

[Jeff]

rebocardo, I would be willing to bet that the cracks and fractures in the blow overs are from the stresses of being blown over, not from fall impact. 

[SwampDonkey]

I'm thinking along the same thing as Jeff suggested. You'll see alot of softwood trees in the forest with long open seems in the bole from rocking back and forth in wind storms before finally being toppled over. I know spruce veneer buyers don't want those type of trees for veneer. I was on one woodlot where just about all the red spruce had a big seem up the side. They were big enough for veneer but that was a defect. The spruce where as big as white pine too. :'( The good thing though, is that the sawmill bought them, but not at $1000/th., more like $385/th.  :-\

[rebocardo]

> are from the stresses of being blown over, not from fall impact

Yea, that could be it too.

[D Martin]

Isnt that what some people call wind shear?

[Jeff]

I think wind shear is an aviation term but I could be wrong. I have heard of "wind shake". Separation of the growth rings due to wind stress.

[mike_van]

Where "wind shake"  is usually found here is in Eastern Hemlock, the annular rings will actually seperate along their lines.   I've seen the kind of cracking/checking rebocardo is talking of, usually in Red Oak,  don't know what causes it though.  I had a real cowboy on a dozer pull out some Oak for me years ago, dead of winter - like highs around 10F.  He was wracking the tree length logs around  other trees, bolders, whatever. Almost every log had splits when sawn, sometimes in nice halves.  Sure does limit how you saw it.

[SwampDonkey]

Mike, the shake in eastern hemlock is attributed to the sap sucker damage also. I've never seen a hemlock that wasn't pecked to pieces. ;)

http://wildwnc.org/trees/Tsuga_canadensis.html (under damage agents)

[mike_van]

Thanks for the link, Swampdonkey - I had to look up "sapsucker" - we call them woodpeckers!   You must have more of them up your way, I don't see that kind of damage here.  I have seen the pilated woodpeckers at work though, mostly on ceder highline poles, some will make condominiums out of those poles!    :D

[SwampDonkey]

we have sap suckers (Yellew bellied)

and we have wood peckers (pileated, downy, hairy, 3-toed) :D  ;)

[Tom]

We don't have any 3 toed Woodpeckers down here.  I think OSHA must have a pecker program that has encreased the safety 'cause the Piliated woodpeckers are wearing steel-toed boots. ;D

[Tom_Averwater]

Wind shake is caused by a bacterial infection sometimes caused by cattle grazing in the woods & probably other things. It starts in the roots and goes up the stem very slowly. It weakens the wood. I learned this from Gene Wengert . Tom

[Tom]

Yeah, I read what he wrote about that too.

[D Martin]

I wonder if those are the trees that I hear creeking when im sittin in my tree stand on a windy day.