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Blade tension indicator

Started by ozarkgem, August 30, 2016, 05:53:35 PM

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ozarkgem

I was wondering if my blade had enough tension on it so I made this indicator. I was able to stretch it .004 before I ran out of spring. I have a die spring and 2 gas piston springs and still not enough. Below are pics of the indicator setup and my spring setup

  

  

  
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

drobertson

Guess I have to ask, have you figured out if there is the right tention?
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Kbeitz

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

ozarkgem

Quote from: drobertson on August 30, 2016, 06:54:27 PM
Guess I have to ask, have you figured out if there is the right tention?
Wasn't there a post that said the proper tension is stretching the blade .005. That is what I am going by. That is where my blade stops fluttering also.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

ozarkgem

Quote from: Kbeitz on August 30, 2016, 07:01:49 PM
Why do you need any springs ?
I guess so there is a little give in everything. Maybe as the blade heats it will be more likely to keep the same tension on the blade. Since Wm uses them there must be a reason. Do you have them on your mill?
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

Kbeitz

Bo I dont... Maybe I should... Sounds like a good idea...
Stamping Die springs should work.
E-bay has them.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

ozarkgem

Quote from: Kbeitz on August 30, 2016, 07:18:41 PM
Bo I dont... Maybe I should... Sounds like a good idea...
Stamping Die springs should work.
E-bay has them.
That is what I have now. Need heaver springs. I think the 2 gas piston springs are 450 lbs each.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

4x4American


I will let Cook's splain the situation.  Fast forward to 10(min):44(sec)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u73MNTPnWg
Boy, back in my day..

Kbeitz

Sounds like you need dozer track springs...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

ozarkgem

Quote from: Kbeitz on August 30, 2016, 07:40:05 PM
Sounds like you need dozer track springs...
[/quote
hadn't thought about dozer springs
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Cook's has a good informative video.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

UN Hooker

  Die springs come in all different sizes, diameters,lengths,& tensions.  Silver being the highest tension. 
    UN
Retired Toolmaker/Moldmaker
C-4 & C5D TF - 5500 Iron Mule - Restored 4400 Ford Ind. FEL ex Backhoe w/custom built boom w/Valby 360* grapple w/18' reach - 920 Cat w/bucket & forks w/clamp - Peterson 10" WPF - LT-15 - Cooks Catsclaw & Dual tooth setter - many Husky saws

Kbeitz

Quote from: UN Hooker on August 30, 2016, 10:00:21 PM
  Die springs come in all different sizes, diameters,lengths,& tensions.  Silver being the highest tension. 
    UN

Now thats something I did not know...
Is there a color chart out there some where ?


On Google I found this...



 

And this... Guess each seller has its own color chart.



 
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

ladylake

 My Tk uses the heavy yellow one and  every mill need a spring or something that has some give .  Nice vid by Cooks  .  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

warren46

Looking at the picture of the tension indicator in the original post it appears that the distance between the two clamps on the band is about three to four inches.  If this is the case then the amount of stretch should be less than .005 inches.  The band should have a stretch of .005 inches in a length of 6 inches.  What is the distance between the two points where the indicator attaches to the band.
Warren E. Johnson
Timber Harvester 36HTE25, John Deere 300b backhoe/loader.

ozarkgem

Quote from: warren46 on August 31, 2016, 06:39:21 AM
Looking at the picture of the tension indicator in the original post it appears that the distance between the two clamps on the band is about three to four inches.  If this is the case then the amount of stretch should be less than .005 inches.  The band should have a stretch of .005 inches in a length of 6 inches.  What is the distance between the two points where the indicator attaches to the band.
I was wondering about the distance . I don't have 6" in the pics but since it is 2 pcs I will give it a try at 6" . thanks for the info
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

ladylake


  Good catch on the distance, going by the teeth it looks like a bit over 4 inchs so about .0035 stretch would be right.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

ozarkgem

Quote from: ladylake on August 31, 2016, 06:55:09 AM

  Good catch on the distance, going by the teeth it looks like a bit over 4 inchs so about .0035 stretch would be right.  Steve
you can't see the dial but it was .004 at that distance.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

Kbeitz

Now you got me worried... I bought a  Blade Tensioning Gauge
and I dont think the whole thing is 6" long...



 

Guess I need to check it.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Jemclimber

Kbeitz,The blade tension gauge is calibrated for the distance it is measuring.

  Warren has pointed out the amount of stretch is per a 6" distance.  To be even more accurate with the system you are using you could measure the stretch over a further distance. For example you could measure the stretch over 18" and it should be 0.015". This further distance will give you less margin of error. 
lt15

Ox

I don't know if this will help any, but when I tension to where it's recommended, 2700 lbs on a hydraulic pressure gauge, the blade flutters like crazy.  Every single blade I've ever used needs less than what is "recommended" to get rid of the fluttering and to run smooth and even.  The flutter could be at the top, bottom or both.  I'll adjust the tension to get rid of all flutter for a perfectly smooth running blade.  It varies with every blade, sometimes wildly variable.  Anywhere from around 1900 to 2500.  I do the flutter test on every blade, every blade is different and I'll run the tension where it wants to be for a smooth running blade.  If I just crank up to 2700 with no thought I'll have the weird diagonal washboard surface that comes and goes all the way down the cut from the harmonics building up in the fluttering blade and vibrations from the engine.  When I do the flutter test blade by blade I get a beautiful cut with no weird marks aside from a tooth that may be set out a little too far. 

I'm sure this will not be true for every mill, just mine is all I'm talking about and maybe this will help someone else down the road.  It's from the six rules of sawing:  http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/six-rules-of-sawing.html
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

1938farmall

re: die springs - each color of spring has a table associated with it that shows the amount of force produced with increased compression.
aka oldnorskie

bandmiller2

Remember guys you can put a spring within a spring to up the tension. I think Ox makes a good point on tension and the flutter test. My homebuilt mill uses low tension and gets extremely long band life. Remember its proper set and sharp that carries the mail, not trying to force the band into submission with too much tension. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

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