Paulownia from seed

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

I am wondering about the possiblility of growing
Paulownia seedlings from seed.
Anyone have experience here?  The young ones are
pricey, and it seems worth the effort, but I had wondered about hybrid separation or other quirks which might be involved.
Phil L.

[Jeff]

Phil, do we have experience?  

https://forestryforum.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=general&action=display&num=983323334

For some reason some of the picture links are broken. This may have happened when we got our new server last year.

[Don P]

At some point this summer I crossed a (USDA?) website that listed it as Noxious (I think was the wording).
 Its apparently wearing out its welcome. I was noticing the stretch in WV where I had commented on seeing them. There are maybe 2 sawlogs and hundreds of them all over that mountain with very poor form, seems like when they get loose maybe they can invade the niche but not really thrive in it.
Down the mountain is a beautiful stand (managed) coming on fast.

[Jeff]

Don, the word would have been invasive. I have read the article.

[Ron Wenrich]

I don't think form is too much of a problem.  I've seen some really crooked logs get sold.  I even drove past a log yard that had one crooked pawlonia log laying by the road.  As I drove past, I could see the bee's swarming out of the log. :D  

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Jeff B.,  Thanks for the link back to the old threads on Paulownia.  Very helpful on the seedling idea.  I have a gazillion (just over a gigabarf) of the seeds still in pods on the 4yr. old tree behind my house.  We planted it and let it spread wild for the purpose of shading a too-sunny sunroom.
Even in this wild growth condition, it is about 16" thick at the base, 12-13" DBH.  They grow fast here.

This tree is an "I-don't-get-it" topic for me. :(
     1.  In Georgia, we have a glut of pine.
     2.  Pine prices are suppressed.
     3.  More pines are being planted constantly, even so.
     4.  Paulownia could be an alternative, as could Yell. Poplar.
     5.   It isn't happening.
     6.   Domestically,  Paulownia seems to be a species for which some promoters would like to sell you seedlings, but has little marketability.
     7.   On the international scene, the southern US grown trees don't meet the growth rings per inch specs, since it ends up being inches per year, rather than rings per inch, due to hyper-growth rates.
     8.   For southern growers, pine is a plant-it-and-forget-it deal, except for controlled burns and break-even thinning.
     9.   Paulownia has a multi-step early maintenance and pruning regimen, which can not be untended, or you will get bushes instead of boles.

Whassup widdis? >: (  Where does the hype end and the real potential begin?)
Phil L.

[Hugh Darty]

Did anybody succede in growing a seedling? I sort of lost touch.
Phil, your state flag looks like Georgia, so you shouldn't have the problem other folks on this forum had who tried this last spring. I think the weather in Michigan is just too cold for paulownia to have much of a chance.
I recently sold several paulownia trees, first sale I've had in about three years. Market is still pretty rotten. :-[
What happened to the spell checker?

[Jeff]

Good post Phil.  Thats why I wanted to try them up here. You hear about the phenominal growth rates and rumors of big prices paid for the logs. I figured that maybe if they would survive at this latitude the growth rate would at least be slowed to less then a blur.  Alas. my seedlings never made it  outdoors.  That reminds me, I never did here what became of Ravioli kids plants. Hers did much better then mine.

Rav? are you out there?  Yes I know, I forgot to send your radio. Tell Gordon to send me my prison hat and i'll send you your radio!

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Hey Hugh & Jeff!

The "Something big" and "Something big 2" threads were so long that I am not sure I found the end of it, but I learned a tremendous amount there.  

You are correct that I am in Georgia, and, even here, an occasional dip into the teens will freeze the terminal bud on a Paulownia.  (It may actually be the case that this top blossom actually just dies and is supplanted by the next lower "branch".) One of the top branches, however, takes over as the lead for a new center.  This characteristic can be enhanced by pruning to elongate the resulting bole/butt log.

Frankly, I wonder if fast growth Paulownia's best market might be as carving stock, i.e. a substitute for Catalpa.  It could also be true, however that a 30 yr. old tree, grown down here, could have impressive ring structure on the outer layers, thereby improving its chances on the international markets.
I would ask Georgia-based  Paulownia.com, but they might be biased in their response. :  They are a full service plantation management company, plus they provide seedlings, etc.
Phil  L.

[Tom]

I sawed as many as 3 1x6's from a 3 year old paulownia grown in Folkston.  It was being tested by a timber grower there as an alternate crop.  I think that there is a market other than export if it were helped along.   The wood is tremendously strong.  Three 8' 1x6's held myt 300 lbs off of the ground which tells me it could be used for construction.  The Grower has told me that it will take a nail within 1/2 inch of the end of the board and not split. It machines easily and polishes to a high sheen. Why not use it for flooring?  It is light as a feather.  Why not use it for panelling?  It is strong as (?). why not use it for studs.  It is already a proven cabinet wood, even with the wide grain.  Why can't wide grain be a marketable item.  Who says that all wood has to have 15 rings to the inch to be special?  What if you could start a market for a wood that would make a drawer face and not show any rings.  Heck, with the right attitude, you can sell anything.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Go Tom, GO.

Thats part of the puzzle of Paulownia for me.
I do have a few marketing ideas, but ... uh...
Let me see if I can get rich with 'em first.  No one else
has cracked this nut, yet.
Phil L.

[Ron Wenrich]

I once read where they were growing black walnut with 1 to 2 growth rings per inch.  I run that past a veneer buyer for his impression.  His response was "who'd want it"?  No growth rings, no market, at least in walnut.

Biggest problem for making studs is that it can only satisfy local construction markets.  It would be hard to get inspectors to accept them in code building.  They would also have to be priced below pine studs, which are pretty cheap.

Flooring?  I believe it would be too soft.

Cabinets?  That might be good, especially for painted cabinets.  I've seen furniture made from aspen, so why not pawlonia?

[RavioliKid]

Hi, guys!

Here is what happened with my great Paulownia experiement last year.

I actually did get some seedlings! I planted about 6 of the sturdiest in the end of my father's tomato patch, and a few of them were still looking good when they lost their leaves in the fall.

I think I should have dug them up and brought them in for the winter - at least into the garage - but I didn't.  :(

The ones that stayed in the containers too long didn't flourish. I found it a little hard to maintain a good balance of moisture, light and heat.

I am eager to see if the seedlings I planted out made it through the winter. I still have some seeds from Hugh, and I want to try again this spring.

I used a heated tray and a grow light to get them started.

[L. Wakefield]

   Just today I got one of those unsolicited catalogs- and it had a pic of a flowering pawlonia tree on the cover- just trumpeting the fantastic growth rate. I had to laugh. If I ever do tree planting in WV- a distinct possibility, as I'm suddenly putting 2+2 together and realizing that could be tree farm as well down there, but it's amture hardwoods rather than my blasted heath up here- maybe Pawlonia will be on the list. lw

[Tom]

LW,
you may have to live on the property to get the trees you desire.  Paulownia is labor intensive.  I have gotten the word from some landowners who are experimenting with it that it needs to be "suckered" like tobacco and at regular and frequent intervals.

The first year you establish the plant then drastically prune it.(cut it down).  Then the second year you select the strongest leader and cut the rest.  Pruning the suckers away from this leader and pruning the limbs from the stem as it develops.  

Viable plants are created from "slips" of proven stock and will root readily.

Is this the truth?  I dunno.  It's just what I was told.

[L. Wakefield]

   Well, hmm..would once a year do it? And on another note, what are the flowers like? Are they scented? We might alternatively go the 'hedge' route if it bloomed prolifically in that form and the flowers could be extracted. I doubt it, since you'd think someone would already be extracting it.  lw

[Bud Man]

Beautiful bloom --Gives a catalpa in bloom a run for the money .  For  the most part it seems like a fad -- like Emuys were a few years ago ,at least you could eat the Emuys, although you had to have a big oven and they got old quick!! :D :D

[L. Wakefield]

   I understand emus will give you a run for your money too, if they get loose! :D :D :D   Mike ties flies, and I just spotted a new and beautiful type of hackle in a packet on his table- sure enough- emu. I 've never gotten close enough to get a good  look at the plumage on a live one (emu, I mean). They have a few around here. Very weird to see one alongside the highway when they do get out.   lw

[Don P]

 Your trout like Emu? Man I gotta go fishin up there. :D

[L. Wakefield]

   There's some very nice troutwater up here. They stock a lot, but there's still wild brook trout to be had, and it's been sweet from the first time I hooked one with a fly rod (it did fly too, cuz I had NO CLUE how to handle it- UP out of the water, wrapped 3 times around a branch- dropped off on the bank :D :D)

   I didn't get a chance to ask him what he'd tied with the emu so far. Right now he's deep into HUGE flambuoyant flies for striped bass (aka sea bass). Now THAT'S a fish!  LW

[SwampDonkey]

Another Paulownia thread to bring forward.

[rebocardo]

Paul L.,

If you could send me a few of those seeds to plant whenever they are ready for it, I would appreciate it. I have a bunch of space to fill and I would like to try them. I had thought about seedlings too. I live in Decatur/Avondale. I want to see how well they do close to the traffic side of the property since I do not think my acorns I have started will provide much shade/growth anytime soon.