Can you identify this tree only by the leaves?

[Mesquite Man]

I would like to see if anyone can identify this tree only by the leaves.  This is not a contest and I do not know the answer.  It is a wild tree but I will tell you what part of the country after I have some suggestions so as to not bias your answer.  I have a suspicion as to what it is but wanted your opinion before I say.

Thanks

[Mesquite Man]

Let's try the picture thing again!

[Bro. Noble]

I'm guessing a member of the Hawthorne family.

Noble

[CHARLIE]

My guess is that it's some sort of Hickory. I'll guess that it is a Shagbark Hickory. :P

[Bro. Noble]

I think both of you guys are wrong-------it's some kinda plum.

[Texas Ranger]

Carolina cherry laurel

[Mesquite Man]

The answers are more varied than I thought!  This particular tree is located in the Edwards Plateau area of Texas at my deer lease near Kerrville, TX.  It is located on 1,000 acres and is not near any old homesteads or anything.

I was wondering if it could be Escarpment Black Cherry (Prunus serotina var. eximia )?  I can not find any place on the net that has a close up picture of this tree.  They are fairly uncommon and no one that I know can identify it.

I was out there today and was planning to take better pictures of the leaves and the bark but when I went to take the pictures I realized I didn't have a darn memory card in the camera!

Curtis

[Mesquite Man]

What is the best way to positively identify this tree?  I guess I could cut it down and see what the wood looks like!  I would get in all kinds of crud from the property owner so that is out.

What are some other characteristics of Black Cherry?

Curtis

[billbobtlh]

cherry laural i.d.


http://www.fl-dof.com/Pubs/trees_of_florida/index.html


 :P

[Texas Ranger]

Give a picture of the bark and leaves.  You may want to try and find a book called "Trees, Shrubs, and woody Vines of the Southwest" by Robert A. Vines, at the library.

[CHARLIE]

Well, it doesn't matter what book you look at, unless it tells you it's a hickory, it's wrong. Those are hickory leaves if I ever saw one :   Maybe it's a hybrid Cherry Hickory tree called a Hickerry or a Chickory. ;D

[Texas Ranger]

Ah, senior momemt, Charlie?  Obviously not a hickberry, alcoholic beverage producers have eliminated them from the US.  Competititve to their product. :P

[Noble_Ma]

I looked in my National Audubon North American Trees field guide.  It does resemble a plum from what I can see.  A picture of the bark would tell all.  This is one of the best books I've seen to identify trees.  It has the bark, leaves ( green and after they turn), fruit and flowers.  I think I paid $15 for it.

[LeeB]

How big is it? Looks like a Mexican PLum. I have this kind of tree on my place. If I were home I could probably help out a little more. Go to the A&M web site and do a search on trees. They have a listing of all the native trees of Texas. MAy take a little while to go through all of them, but it is a good place to learn about what is in your area. Can't remember the web adress right now. Will be home in a week if you still don't have an answer. LeeB

[Jeff]

Love them Audubon field guides!

[Jeff]

I keep them handy. Ya never now when your goona need a field guide or a deleware prison hat. ;D

[LeeB]

The web adress for Texas A&M is tamu.org. Don't remeber what the actual site name is. LeeB

[Noble_Ma]

Jeff, I had to stop lending mine out.  I never get them back and I even have my name in the dam thing.  I think I've bought 3 so far.  They are great books.

[Jeff]

Good for you. I would not think of lending mine out any more then I would my underwear. ;D

Mine are right above me withing easy reach, and if I am going to the cabin or a different part of the state I always grab my eastern field guide to go with me. I hope to travel sometime west of the Mississippi then I'll throw in the western too.

[Noble_Ma]

Mine is the North American Trees one.  I never saw the East or West one??  Sounds like I need to take a ride to the book store.   I guess I learned the hard way with lending stuff.

[smwwoody]

If it was in Pennsylvania with flaky bark on it i would call it cherry but being in texas it might be some kind of mexican jumpen bean tree ;)

[Mesquite Man]

OK guys,

I just got back from my hunting camp and I have more pictures of the tree in question.



one of the trunks



More leaves



closer picture of bark



Complete tree


The bark has a lot of moss on it and is a dark grey.  It is a 3 trunked tree that is about 25' tall total.  What do you think now?

[Mesquite Man]

LeeB,

I have that site bookmarked and look at is quite often.  Unfortunately, they do not have all the trees in this area listed.  For example, they do not have the Escarpment Cherry that I originally thought this tree was.  They also do not have very good pictures of bark and such.  It is a good place to start, however.

Sitruc

[LeeB]

Glad you had it bookmarked. The address I gave you was wrong anyway. Try the library. There are some pretty good books on Texas native trees. LeeB

[Texas Ranger]

I'll still go with laurel, of some nature.

[sawmill_john]

From my limited sources it sure looks like Black Cherry to me, my referance book shows a bark and leaf that look about as close as you can get.  

Black Cherry or "Wild Cherry" or "Rum Cherry"
Prunus serotina

source; National Audubon Society Field Guide

[Saki]

When I first looked at it I thought black cherry until I read where it was. Didn't know there might be a sub-strain or variation. If the variation is similar to the common black cherry there are a couple other " possible" ways to ID. The bark ON THE TWIGS near the leaf ( NOT ON THE TRUNK) will have small oval white or light colored marks. I think the text books call these marks lenticels or lentzels or something. On a fresh sample you can also scratch the bark off a twig and smell it. It will have a strong bitter odor. This ( if memory serves ) is a poison of the cyanide family. That is why so many farmers in the midwest have waged an all out war on this tree. Livestock that are silly enough to eat the leaves of a storm damaged tree can and have died. The bark on the standard strain is quite chippy or flaky. I had a little kid on a nature hike tell me it looked like burnt corn flakes had been glued on that tree. He was pretty well dead on with the description. Hope that this helps. Let us know what it is for sure. Best of Luck, saki.

[Don P]

I'm just taking Don S's response and running with it
8)
http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/syllabus/pcaroliniana.htm


Came off a pretty neat site,

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/map/zonemap.htm

[Tom]

I love to listen to the "proper" pronunciation of the latin names of plants.  Not only do I learn something but generally get a good belly-laugh out of it to when I compare my pronunciation to the person who is doing it right.

Then I try to figure out where that person is from.  On the second link, the zonemap one, it sounds like an oriental pronouncing Latin to a Southeast United States boy.  Boy, that will get your ear all tripped up. :D

[Squirrell_Boy]

 From what i can tell of the leaves it's some member of the Rose Family(Rosaceae) of which cherrys, plums, hawthorns, etc. come from. That bark is definately different though. Are there legumes hanging from it in that one picture? That would change everything. Never seen anything with legumes that had cherry looking leaves.

[SwampDonkey]

HI:

Concerning the leaves you posted. Can you see fine light-brown hairs along the mid-rib on the underside of the leaves? Can you see 2 dark pin-head sized glands at the base of the leaf where the blade meets the petiole? Is the underside of the leave light brown and the leaf margins finely serrated? And at the base of your tree do you find 0.5 cm sized pits? In spring, are there long racimes with white blossoms oppositely arranged around it? In my region there are two possibilities, the Choke Cherry and black cherry. And one big give away for a sweet cherry such as these is that it will usually be infected by black-knot disease which looks like scat on the infected stems. Choke cherry is a shrub, usually under 4 meters in height. Black cherry is open grown usually, or on disturbed sites. The heart-wood of mature trees is pink in color.

 ;D

[Stephen_Wiley]

Although not native to your area their is some similarities to Nannberry Viburnum  lentago.

Need more info. for a + ID

1st pic. clearly shows serrulated leaves, but does not show distinguishable veins.

Cannot rule out previous suggestions, although I am not inclined to think carolina laurel because lack of serrulated leaf edge.

Prunus spp.
American Plum,  Black Cherry

Also slighty Possible:
                Stewartia     Oxydendrum

[Bud Man]

Black Cherry

[SwampDonkey]

HI Steve:

Hmmmmmmm, you sure about your suggestion of viburnum? They are shrub spcies here, but not the same species your suggesting. We have 3 viburnum species in our region, all under 10 m in height. The tallest is high-bush cranberry (trilobum) found on field edges and poplar swamps, wild raisin (angustufolium) found on fens and soils with highwater table, and hobblebush (forget spec name)found on moist hardwood sites. The flowers of all vibernum are arranged so that the surface appears flattened with many white flowers, most are false with no stamens. One exception to this arrangment is snow-ball (an ornamental shrub).

I am sure this tree is a prunus species, the fine hairs on the underside of the leaves along the mid-rib and the oil glands on the leaves are a dead ringer. If they exist. I'm not sure the serotina is found in Tx though since its on limey soils of the Niagra excarpment, the Appalachians from PA to NC and the southern portions of the Acadian forest region. From what I've read and heard its best sites are in PA. A log buyers wet dream if you can get logs without block-knot infections.

regards

[Mesquite Man]

Guys,

I cut the tree down and milled it.  It is definately Escarpment Black Cherry (Prunus serotina var. eximia).  I was surprised to find that we have cherry in central Texas.  There is no doubt that is what it is, though.  I have already made a picture frame out of it and it works, looks, and smells like cherry.

Thanks for all the replies!

[SwampDonkey]

Congrats Mesquite Man  8)

[Stephen_Wiley]

HI Steve:

Hmmmmmmm, you sure about your suggestion of viburnum?  
 

No, was just a suggestion based upon tree description and the observance that many people will transport trees from one region to another although it is not conducive to its native growth.

Black Cherry was my first thought, but do the unclarity of the pics. was leaving room open for other possibilities.

Mesquite Man - show us pics of your prize !!!!!!
(If you have the ability to do so)

Smells like Cherry ..........definately not Nannberry it smells like  skunk.  

[SwampDonkey]

Far enough Stephen   Good approach


Black cherry in my region varies by bark descriptions. Some areas the bark peels like birch on maturing trees and some regions it looks like sugar maple bark. I live at its most northern tip of its range. If I go 10 miles north, not a sign of it. Just Choke Cherry (sweet) and Pin Cherry (sour) and the bark is birch-like here. Forty miles south and the bark is more maple-like. The quality of black cherry here is quite poor because of black-knot. It has best quality in mixed hardwood stands here.


regards