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Tractor logging

Started by mainiac, November 18, 2010, 06:45:53 AM

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mainiac

For small scale winter logging, which tractor would you want? Kubota-21hp-4x4-diesel or a ford 3000-47hp-2 wheel drive-gas?

I have the Kubota and I have the chance to purchase the Ford at what I think is reasonable.
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.

ahlkey

It all depends on what you mean by winter logging?  If you are planning to do a lot of logging with reasonable sized logs I would not suggest anything  smaller than 40-45HP 4X4.   I would also suggest fluid in the rear tires as well and get a winch to drag the logs to the trails in areas the tractor cannot go.  The 4 X 4 is very important in snow.

dsgsr

It does depend on the size of the trees. Neither one of those tractors are good for logging but if those are the only choices I would go with the Ford. The more weight of the tractor the safer it would be.

David
Northlander band mill
Kubota M59 TLB
Takeuchi TB175 Excavator
'08 Ford 550 dump
'87 International Dump
2015 Miller 325 Trailblazer Welder/Gen

thecfarm

I would not even think of a 21 hp tractor in the woods for a pay check. And I would hate to use it as a homeowner too. The 47hp 2 wheel drive would do much better until snow gets deep.Even going through 2 feet of snow it will struggle.When you start pushing snow with the front axle,tractors have a hard time than.Hard to make money with a tractor in the woods.I did it on my own land,but I get all the money.I hope you have some chains for that 2 WD.Anything can be done,but how much time do you want to invest in it.A 3pt winch is really a must.Not just for the logs but getting you around the woods too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

beenthere

Neither would be much better than the other. One is a bit short in the shorts, and the other is not 4 wd.

But you can get by to a limited extent with either of them as well as the other.   
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

John Mc

I think you may need to define "small scale winter logging" a bit. Are you talking about harvesting firewood for your personal use, with maybe the occasional saw log for some special project? Or are you talking about earning a living with this (or a serious 2nd job)? Or maybe something in between: some harvesting for your own needs, and helping out a friend here and there (for pay or barter).

As others have already noted, both of the options you noted are not great for serious logging, especially if you are hoping to make significant income.

I'm not sure how deep the snow gets in your area, and how much time you are willing to put in to preparing trails. One concern is whether the wheels on your 21 HP Kubota are too small to do well in your winter snow conditions.

People log with ATVs (maybe not so much in heavy snow). So the options you mention are possible at least on some terrain and in some seasons.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

mainiac

Winter logging-From freeze up in December to mud season in the spring(February last year, but usually late March early April). 10 miles inland from the coast of Maine. 20-25 acres of a 60 acre lot with about 75 cord of firewood/hard wood pulp and about 5000 board feet of saw logs mostly soft wood has been marked by a forester for selective cutting. Not trying to pay all the bills as I plow and sand through the winter, but trying to stay busy between storms and try to get ahead some next year. I would like to try a skidder, but after the last 2 years, there just isn't the funds for something that isn't all worn out.

My Kubota does have loaded tires and I do have chains for it. Just thinking bigger tractor would do better than mine as a 2 wheel drive.
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.

beenthere

mainiac
Have you been driving your Kubota (7500 ?) around in your woods in a typical snow?  That should give you a good feeling for how well it will do with a log. What model is it?

I've "logged" with a Ford 8N in the woods in pretty deep snow, but it was a lot of extra work getting hooked up to logs and/or getting unstuck. But we got by with what we had. The Ford 3000 has more HP, but weighs more too. Good logging chains for snow would be important.

Many winters here can be fairly easy to get around in the woods in snow. But last winter, it was all but impossible, as well as the winter before when there was a 6" layer of ice/snow under the 12" blanket of snow on top.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

WH_Conley

I don't know how much experience you have on a tractor. They both have their limits. Only advise I will give is, if the ground freezes before snowfall, or the snow packs to ice, go to the house. On flat ground you just can't move on ice. On a hillside you move really fast and not when you want to. I started skidding with a tractor when I was 16, now, at 54, I can't tell you holes my butt has chewed in tractor seats, mostly in the winter.
Bill

rick f

I've used a 1250 jd ( 40 hp) with my winch and ring chains for years. It does a decent job in the woods with a couple feet of snow. So I would go with the Ford. Where in maine are you?
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1 - 268xp husky
1250 JD farm tractor with skid winch
5040 kubota farm tractor

John Mc

Maniac -

I don't know Maine all that well, but I'm guessing that at 10 miles from the coast, you are still in relatively flat terrain. Is that correct?

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Magicman

Also, do some searches.  There are several threads on here concerning tractors tipping over backward and crushing the operator.  It happened to an acquaintance of mine.
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Skiddah

I've cut wood all over our state, and where you're it will be tricky.  In the Camden Hills you're not going to get the deep snow that we get inland.  I know I don't have to tell you about the weather, but it's more for the people from away reading this.  I don't know how flat your woodlot is, but the terrain can get tricky with a tractor, you just don't have the weight and stability of a skidder.  Now get an early season snowfall before the ground freezes, like we've had the past few years, and it's downright messy.  Costal Maine is always much warmer in the winter than inland, they also don't get the snowfall as heavy either.  If I were you, I'd take a ride up the road to the boys selling orange tractors in Union and have a frank discussion with them about your machine.  They have all sorts of winches and accessories for your tractor.  See what they've got, look over what you have, and think about the Ford.  Personally I'd lean away from the smaller horsepower and the 2wd.

snowstorm

Quote from: mainiac on November 18, 2010, 11:08:37 AM
Winter logging-From freeze up in December to mud season in the spring(February last year, but usually late March early April). 10 miles inland from the coast of Maine. 20-25 acres of a 60 acre lot with about 75 cord of firewood/hard wood pulp and about 5000 board feet of saw logs mostly soft wood has been marked by a forester for selective cutting. Not trying to pay all the bills as I plow and sand through the winter, but trying to stay busy between storms and try to get ahead some next year. I would like to try a skidder, but after the last 2 years, there just isn't the funds for something that isn't all worn out.

My Kubota does have loaded tires and I do have chains for it. Just thinking bigger tractor would do better than mine as a 2 wheel drive.
what town do you plow? or do you go driveways?

Rick Alger

I have a friend who does okay with a 2wd Ford. His is chained and he has a Farmi winch. He preps his haul road and his major skid trails before freezeup.

mad murdock

If you plan on doing all of that logging yourself, you would be light years ahead of the game with ANY skidder over a tractor.  If you have to buy chains and a skidding winch for your tractor, you will probably be in as much money as you would for an old TJ, or an old clark.  I have often seen skidders go for less than $5,000.00 (old cable machines), that with a little TLC and care, still have alot of work left in them.  I bought my Garrett for $3,000.00 from a Craigslist add 4 years ago, and have skidded about 10 truckloads of Douglas Fir Sawlogs , a few loads of poles, and 4 winters worth of firewood getting so far.  You will thank yourself after the first week of serious work, that you aren't out the flogging around in the snow, uneven ground and all that trying to "get by" with a tractor.  When I first started in the woods, we had a Farmall H with chains, even in the nasty N. Wisc. winters, it did ok, till the snow got to 3 ft.  we had to spend time beating down skid trails before we could do much pulling, got by with it for a year, and when we went to a skidder, all we could say was "man, why did we even screw around with the tractor"?!?  Unless you are totally strapped for cash, sell what you don't need and get a skidder.  Just Sayin'.  If you do go with the tractor, make sure you proceed with measured caution, and do not become a statistic.  The woods is dangerous enough even with a skidder. 
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

mainiac

Snowstorm-I plow driveways and parking lots in Lincolnville-Hope-Camden-Rockport-Rockland-Thomaston. My accounts, but I have some subbed out.

The lot is relatively flat, but is rough. Was selective cut 10-15 years ago with a skidder and left some big ruts. Land owner doesn't really want to go down that road again if possible.

I have a milemarker 10500lb (100 feet of cable)hydraulic winch rigged for my B7500 that I use for pulling docks and an occasional tree, but nothing on the regular basis that I am talking about.

Ten plus years experience with this tractor doing landscaping and property maintenance.
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.

snowstorm

plowed driveways for years then a little over 10 yrs. ago i switched to plowing roads i like that much better....and it pays a whole lot better. just woundered if you worked for farley seems as if they are trying to take over around here

bill m

Even with 2 wheel drive the Ford should pull a lot more than the Kubota. You will need good chains for it. Will your winch go onto the Ford? If this is fill in work for winter or slow times I would stick with a tractor and not buy a skidder. Yes, a tractor will not go places or pull as much as a skidder but you just have to work within the  limitations of your equipment. I do all my logging with a tractor now and do ok at making a living.






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CX3

I started out with a 4000 ford 2wd gas tractor.  It had no fluid in tires.  It works ok but heres the deal.  You HAVE to spend lots of time cutting skidding roads.  And stay off rough country.  After the ford I used a 90 horse deisel 2wd with a loader on it. Much better for skidding but still had to have same nice roads cut in.  Now I have a skidder, no doubt the only way to log.  But tractors do work and I would not even consider tractor logging anymore without a winch on the back.  I didnt have one and man o man it sucked.  Buy the winch and go to work.  The little kubota will work fine just dont over load and take your time and do things slow and the right way or it will catch up to you.  Good Luck and have fun.
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You Better Believe It!

g_man

I use a 32hp 4WD Kabota with a Grapple on the loader, Farmi winch, studded ice chains and loaded tires. It weighs about 5000 lbs. Most of the steering in winter is done with the brakes. I cut and ship sawlogs to a mill 7 miles away. My average load is 500 bf in a one ton truck. I cut balsam fir that it averages 10" to 12" dbh with a max of 16". I skid out 2 or 3   30' to 40' limbed logs at a time depending on size and conditions.  I ship only  10 and 12 foot sawlogs. In summer it is slow work. I figure I net about $10 per hour at $275 / mbf. ( I dont hurry - to old ). In the winter it is even slower. I have to spend a lot of time packing the skid trails. Heavy going shuts me down until things freeze back up. Working in deep snow with the cable and chokers is hard work. I keep off the steep parts in winter. My equipment handles this and firewood well. I have alot of pine that is to big for me unless it is in an easy level spot. I like the work and am improving my woodlot but could never make a living this way. This is my experience - hope it helps.

g_man

I should add my $10 / hr only considers fuel as an expense. The cost and maintainence of equipment is not included. And the the time and costs associated with making and maintainuing the trail system is not included. As mentioned by someone else, you need good trails for a tractor and for the most part the tractor has to stay on the trails. Especially in winter or on a rough hilly lot.

dsgsr

mainiac, Please be careful logging with a tractor, It can be very dangerous if you are not experienced. I've got over 5000 hrs. on tractors an a lot of that is logging. If you have any interest PM me, you could come to my place or I could come to yours and share info. on procedures for logging.

David
Northlander band mill
Kubota M59 TLB
Takeuchi TB175 Excavator
'08 Ford 550 dump
'87 International Dump
2015 Miller 325 Trailblazer Welder/Gen

g_man

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Dougofthenorth

I traded my 30HP Kubota 4X4 4 years ago - I had it for over 10 years.
Tires were calcium filled & it had ag/bar tires. (no chains)
It was all it could do when snow got above 1ft.
My neighbor had the same setup with a 25hp Kubota - & he had a 2wd Massey 35HP with filled tires with chains neither would do the job unless snow was cleared.  

My current 37.5 HP JD 3520 with calcium filled tires & studded Trygg SMT chains is no good above 2 ft of snow.
If it wasn't for the FX90 winch & chains I wouldn't even bother in more than 1ft of snow.  

Even occasional 3 ft drifts have to be cleared 1st  

On the 3520 I even put on my VERY heavy high volume bucket - to give the front more weight.

Hanging up in snow always seems to be the issue as well as trying to turn.
Regards,
Dougofthenorth
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