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Tractor Horsepower

Started by firefighter ontheside, November 08, 2017, 05:37:50 PM

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firefighter ontheside

I'm thinking of getting a bigger tractor.  I want to be able to use the loader and lift a log about 9' long and about 27" diameter.  Does anyone know in general how many HP I need to do that.  I'm assuming around 40 or 45.  Thanks for any help.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

firefighter ontheside

This is probably one of those questions that gets asked all the time, but has no clear answer.  I did a search, but didn't ind what I was looking for, then I googled my question and found a post here that asked about the same thing.  I know a skid steer would be better, but that would mean having two machines, which is not in the cards.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

thecfarm

I suppose on level ground?
I do that with a 40hp NH with ease. 9 feet is not very long.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

pineywoods

HP really does not have much to do with lifting capability. What matters most is the tractors weight. Higher hp tractors tend to be heavier, but not necessarily so.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

gspren

  One of the reasons you won't get a clear answer as to what HP is needed is because it varies by year and model and is more a weight & sturdiness issue. My JD2355 4x4 from the late 80s weighs much more than a newer tractor of the same HP, (55). Horse power is needed for running PTO and hydraulic stuff while weight and sturdiness are needed for heavy loader work.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

gspren

Piney, you type faster than me.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

Peter Drouin

80 or 90 horse, and that will work for most logs.
How about a nice John Deere.  ;D


  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

 

With a winch too, and attachments. You can do a lot. Don't forget the cab with heat and AC.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

firefighter ontheside

I know weight is needed, but my 1980ish kubota L245DT will not pick up a big log and the rear end will not lift up either.  Adding more weight to the back is not gonna make any difference.  It's a great tractor, but it's only 25 HP.  Thanks for the replies.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

firefighter ontheside

That's a hell of a tractor.  It might be a bit out of my price range.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

gspren

Quote from: firefighterontheside on November 08, 2017, 07:07:39 PM
I know weight is needed, but my 1980ish kubota L245DT will not pick up a big log and the rear end will not lift up either.  Adding more weight to the back is not gonna make any difference.  It's a great tractor, but it's only 25 HP.  Thanks for the replies.
If the loader is sized properly for the tractor it won't lift much more than it can handle.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

firefighter ontheside

Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

g_man

A red oak log 27" in diameter and 9' long weighs about 2300 lbs. You will need a good rugged tractor.

Knute

If you are sort of poor like me, you could use an Allis D-17 like I have. It will lift the log you mentioned with no problem. About 60 hp.

mike_belben

With lift rate not specified, the issue isnt horsepower, its diameter of the lift cyinders and the pressure setting of the relief valve.  8hp could lift that log no problem, just the same as itll make 34 tons or force to split it. 

Your issue will realistically come down to the front axle capacity (well.. And how strong the trans housing is if itsna frameless loader.)  Knuckles and balljoints or kingpins are inherently weaker than an articlated machine with two straight axles.  Its why wheel loaders never have a front steer.  Even the old houghs had a solid front and rear steer.  Look at how low the rating is on telehandlers compared to wheel loaders or forklifts of similar size.  Steer axle is why.

2300lbs is heavy for a skid steer unless its a big'n.  compact track loader territory.   

Old crawler loaders otoh... 6k no problem and theyre cheap
Praise The Lord

TKehl

Front wheel assist is very nice for loader work. At a minimum though, you want something with power steering.  No power steering + heavy loader = Popeye arms.   :D

More details would help.  Budget?  Will this be for farm  use as well?  If you don't need 3 point and PTO, an old backhoe or industrial loader can be had pretty cheap that will have good lift capacity.
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

Ianab

Would a sturdy log arch work for moving heavy logs with your current tractor?

https://logrite.com/store/Item/tractor-arches

Lot cheaper than a tractor that will pick up 4,000+ pounds. As long as you have reasonably flat ground your little tractor would tow that arch with a decent size log slung under it.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Peter Drouin

Quote from: firefighterontheside on November 08, 2017, 07:10:41 PM
That's a hell of a tractor.  It might be a bit out of my price range.




You might be surprised, Less $$$ than a new truck.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

PA_Walnut

This is some very good info!  8)

My tractor is 65HP. I regularly lift BIG stuff up to about 4,000 or so. However, I can feel the strain on the front when I do. Even though power steering, the turning feels strained, the chassis is loaded and it feels generally uneasy.

Replaced all the fluids in the front axel with heavier oil and change often, but I expect it to wear 5x faster than a casual-use machine that hauls bunny-tails and powder-puffs.  ;D :D

Always caveats and trade-offs. My machine is a GREAT general, all-around beast (Kubota M62) with powerful loader, 4WD, backhoe, ROPS and FOPS protection, 63HP, etc.

Great all-around machine, but something 1/4 the price can lift more. Skids and track-loaders tear things up. Tractors not so much.

Pick your poison and work it's strengths.

I use mine every single day: moving logs and slab wood, forking pallets and lumber stacks, digging to plant trees, brush removal, even skidding and forwarding a quite large timber job down and out to the landing: naysaying onlookers were astounded to see me coming down the hill with 32"+ oak logs in the grapple.

Thinking of shimming the hydraulics a little to coerce a little more lift outta'er!  smiley_chop
Curling that beech log made it groan.





Quote from: mike_belben on November 08, 2017, 08:45:21 PM
With lift rate not specified, the issue isnt horsepower, its diameter of the lift cyinders and the pressure setting of the relief valve.  8hp could lift that log no problem, just the same as itll make 34 tons or force to split it. 

Your issue will realistically come down to the front axle capacity (well.. And how strong the trans housing is if itsna frameless loader.)  Knuckles and balljoints or kingpins are inherently weaker than an articlated machine with two straight axles.  Its why wheel loaders never have a front steer.  Even the old houghs had a solid front and rear steer.  Look at how low the rating is on telehandlers compared to wheel loaders or forklifts of similar size.  Steer axle is why.

2300lbs is heavy for a skid steer unless its a big'n.  compact track loader territory.   

Old crawler loaders otoh... 6k no problem and theyre cheap
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

firefighter ontheside

Lots of great ideas here.  I want to stay with a farm type tractor so I can keep using my 3 point devices and I dont want it so big that I cant drive around in the woods between trees.  I am not gonna have an all out logging business, but I want to be able lift logs onto the mill and unload my trailer or a trailer of someone who brings me logs to saw.  I'm thinking of a budget of about 15,000.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

Crusarius

I have a Kubota L2800. the loader is not up to the task plain and simple. I don't think HP is what you need I think frame is more what you should be looking at. I am pretty confident my L2800 vs a comparable M series Kubota the M series is quite a bit more rugged and has more lift capacity. If you are looking at brand new tractor with loader 4 wd power steering and no real frills your starting about 23k for an M series.

My L2800 is the short wheelbase version. I don't care for it. It has nicer turning radius but longer nose which makes maneuvering in the woods a pain with the loader. It is still a good tractor but I kinda wish I kept my B8200 and bought a bigger M series.

Live and learn :)

TKehl

Should be very doable for good used tractor with 4x4 and loader, as long as you don't need a cab.

Just check the specs on the loader in addition to the tractor.  For example, there were 3 different models Deere would put on our 2755.  Not to mention aftermarket options...
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

firefighter ontheside

Definitely not looking new.  I bought the l245 that I have on ebay of all places about 15 years ago.  I bought it for 5000 and then had to pay about 800 for shipping from Canada.  It has been a great tractor.  It looks like it rolled down a mountain side, but it runs flawlessly.  I am thinking I will get at least 40hp.  I know my tractor is just as good now as it was 15 years ago when I bought it, but im curious what I'll get for it on trade or private sale.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

firefighter ontheside

Cab would be nice in the winter, but I think it would be a nuisance most of the time.  I showed my wife one I found yesterday that had heat, AC and a stereo for about 35,000.  She was not impressed.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

petefrom bearswamp

8540 Kubota, cost me 30gs in 2007 with 8'bucket, pallet forks.
2 days ago moved a bunch of 21' white pine 14 to 18 small end 2 at a time.
Had to put it in 4wd to travel up a slight incline.
front tires sagged a bit.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

firefighter ontheside

That sounds like a bit of overkill for me, but impressive.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

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