Looking for Design Input on my New Arch (updated with pics)

[ickirby]

I'd like to start off by saying thank you to everyone on the forum.  I have been lurking around in the background for months taking in information on many topics and it has been very useful for me.

Now I have read a lot of posts on the forestry forum and have seen a few well built logging arches for small scale use and now it is my turn to collaborate on a design.  I'm getting a logging arch made that will be used by many different people (an equipment exchange type thing) and I'm looking for some input.

I whipped up some drawings in Google Sketch up today to take to the welders to get some quotes but I'd thought I should run it by all the other 'back yard' engineers, who have some practical experience with arches for ATV's and small farm tractors.

Arch with the telescopic tongue set for 8 foot logs. (click the photo to enlarge)


Arch with the telescopic tongue set for 16 foot logs. (click the photo to enlarge)


The sketches are not completely done there will be a worm gear hand winch mounted on top of the stationary forward portion of the tongue 3 feet forward of the top of the arch.  Also behind the winch at the top centre of the arch there will be a fairlead handling winch cable directly from the hand winch.  Also there will be a conventional 1 7/8" trailer coupler mounted on the front of the tongue.  Also in the sketches there are chain notch brackets (don't know of the correct term) that are un-labeled but they are for chain chokers that will take the weight of the front and middle of the log once it is lifted into place by the winch.

One thing I'm specifically looking for are peoples opinions on whether or not the wheels/tires that I plan on using and the axle/hubs are going to be adequate.

Any feedback about any part of the design or process would be welcomed and greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[Dave Shepard]

Welcome to the Forum! And nice sketches.

[Piston]

I was thinking of that same thing, with the telescoping arch idea, I will be interested to see how yours comes out.  Welcome to the forum!

I'm sure some of the veterans who built arches will chime in shortly. 

[Lud]

Welcome aboard.
                            I built my arch and would advise that an arch can't hardly be too strong and it doesn't have to be pretty.
Like a good horse. :D
What type of equipment will be pulling?  What type of mills?  What type of terrain?  What size sticks?

Look for old farm equipment as a source of steel.  My arch only cost me a box of rod, two tires, and  a gallon of
paint.  (OK, pretty does count).

Check my gallery to see photos  if you want. 

[Ironwood]

I would use 3x3 box at the rear arch. My one mistake on my smaller one was to use I beam, which is flexing occasionally. That portion cant be too underbuilt. Also, for the cats meow, put hydrualic surge brakes to the tongue (expensive but SAFE, especailly for those using smaller light equipment). I have built afew and those are my recommendations. I alos like skidloader tires for puncture resistance, I usually find them at used or reduced rates. I tend to stock pile them for future use.

Also, use the adjustable channel (5-7 position) and a lunette at the front as they offer some forgiveness at odd angles, and the lower position can be used for a swivel pneumatic tire to winch it in tough to reach places.

           Ironwood















                         

[ickirby]

...I built my arch and would advise that an arch can't hardly be too strong and it doesn't have to be pretty...

I agree but I want to still be able to move it around by hand in the bush to maneuver it over logs and then hook up with the atv/tractor.

What type of equipment will be pulling?  What type of mills?  What type of terrain?  What size sticks?

The equipment that will be pulling it will vary.  I'm an extension forester and we are trying to encourage some more active woodlot management in the area by getting some more equipment out there.  By having an arch to lend out we are hoping that people who would otherwise be hesitant purchase/make one will get a chance to see how well they work for small scale jobs and then take the leap on their own.  We are trying to make it as versatile as possible to compliment the most common equipment in the area (ATV's and small 30-45hp fram tractors).

There are a few people that will be harvesting sawlogs for sale but the majority of the initial harvesting in a lot of the local woodlots is going to be Timber Stand Improvement (TSI) work resulting in mostly firewood for on farm use and local sale. 

As far as the size and type of the wood in the area it varies.  There are some mature aspen stands that are being harvested (24-28 cords/ac) individual stems 22"-24"dbh all the way down to selection harvesting and pre-commercial thinning in bur oak stands at only 12-15 cords/ac.  There is a mix but it will mostly be hardwood (Green Ash, Black Ash,  Bur Oak, Basswood, Aspen, Cotonwood and Black Poplar)  TSI harvest's.

The terrain is mostly flat (gotta love the prairies) but there are a lot of acres of river valley that are timbered in the area.  Most of he harvesting on the valley slopes will be not recommended due to operational (lack of equipment, skid distance, access, etc...) and environmental concerns (soil type, erosion potential, poor growing site, etc...).   

Look for old farm equipment as a source of steel.  My arch only cost me a box of rod, two tires, and  a gallon of
paint.  (OK, pretty does count).

Check my gallery to see photos  if you want.

Thanks for the tip on the steel, I kid of already have that in mind.  The steel in the drawing other than the rebar will mostly be free/nearly free. 

I looked at your arch and you aren't kidding that thing is a beast (with a nice paint job).  I bet you can suspend  800-900 bft logs with that thing and it not skip a beat.  That would be major over kill for what I have planned.

[jander3]

I added a few clevis hooks and a tab for a shackle on the back of the arch.  These are used to chain the log in place to take the load off the winch.   And, they have been used to pull, move, and lash many non-log type of materials to this rig.

[ickirby]

I was thinking of that same thing, with the telescoping arch idea, I will be interested to see how yours comes out.

I'll be glad to share my experiences with the telescopic tongue, and the rest of it for that matter. 

I was slightly concerned that the joint of the telescopic tongue would be a weak point but only time will tell.  It is possible of course to over load and over stress anything with the proper lack of care but I'm optimistic that it will be fine.

I would use 3x3 box at the rear arch...  Also, for the cats meow, put hydrualic surge brakes to the tongue (expensive but SAFE, especailly for those using smaller light equipment)... Also, use the adjustable channel (5-7 position) and a lunette at the front as they offer some forgiveness at odd angles, and the lower position can be used for a swivel pneumatic tire to winch it in tough to reach places.

I alos like skidloader tires for puncture resistance, I usually find them at used or reduced rates. I tend to stock pile them for future use.
           Ironwood

I think I'm going to take your advice and upgrade to the 3"x3" for the main arch.  Also I love the idea of the swivel pneumatic on the tongue, I'll have to try that out.  The skidloader tire are a good idea I never though of, and I even have a good (read cheap) source for those too.

Thanks for the good ideas Ironwood

[ickirby]

I added a few clevis hooks and a tab for a shackle on the back of the arch.  These are used to chain the log in place to take the load off the winch.   And, they have been used to pull, move, and lash many non-log type of materials to this rig.

I like those ideas too jander.  I was thinking of adding some clevis hooks but the tab for the shackle will be nice too.  I want to get the arch made and give it a couple days work in the bush to figure out where I want to add those first though.

[archertwo]

Here's a pic of what I was using till recently for hauling out firewood with an ATV.
It's made from 3"x3"X 3/16" square tubing. 12 feet long of the tubing made the whole thing.
25" between beams.
I used a 3000lb 12 volt winch with 50ft of cable and an extra battery in the box on the back of the ATV for added power.
It may be a bit on the heavy duty side but I never broke it either.
You can use the same pattern and elongate the pole for your setup.


Took a while but I think I figured out how to post pics now.

[Magicman]

Welcome to FF archertwo..... 8)  Looks like a well built arch.  I like your chain notches on top.  Simple, yet effective.

[Ironwood]

 





The heaviest swivel tire wheel I could find loooks to be Military, possibly from some Air Force equipment. I found several of them on Ebay a few years ago.


Ironwood

[archertwo]

Thanks for the welcome Magicman.
Hopefully next time I post I'll have the pic stay put. :P

[Magicman]

BTW, archertwo, we really enjoyed traveling to and seeing the sights in Nova Scotia.  It was one of our favorite and most enjoyable trips.  We criss-crossed it and made the loop.  Spent a week there......

[Lud]

So you're talking about a loaner you could do some clearing off an ATV, hmmm......

Why not put a few hoorizontal/perpindicular pipes down the top of this low arch (no wider than the tires) and then connect them with a chunk of stock panel.  That creates the long ,  narrow basket bottom.  Weld a 6" long  pipe or square stock vertically on the corners so you could stuff a branch in to create sides on the "basket".

So it's still an light gauge arch but it also serves as a giant,  one o them carts you see at the garden centers, eh?

[archertwo]

Magicman, Nova Scotia's a nice place to visit and an even better palce to live.
ickirby, sent you some pics.

[Ed]

Here's the thread on my arch build.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,33341.0.html
I still need to upgrade the winch, otherwise it works good.

Ed

[John Mc]

ickirby -

How is your arch design (construction?) coming along?

[ickirby]

I got a bunch of quotes for the welding ($450- $900 CDN) and because of the holiday things have lost steam.  The project will get going next week.

I hope.

[scsmith42]

I'd like to start off by saying thank you to everyone on the forum.  I have been lurking around in the background for months taking in information on many topics and it has been very useful for me.

Now I have read a lot of posts on the forestry forum and have seen a few well built logging arches for small scale use and now it is my turn to collaborate on a design.  I'm getting a logging arch made that will be used by many different people (an equipment exchange type thing) and I'm looking for some input.

I whipped up some drawings in Google Sketch up today to take to the welders to get some quotes but I'd thought I should run it by all the other 'back yard' engineers, who have some practical experience with arches for ATV's and small farm tractors.

Arch with the telescopic tongue set for 8 foot logs. (click the photo to enlarge)


Arch with the telescopic tongue set for 16 foot logs. (click the photo to enlarge)


The sketches are not completely done there will be a worm gear hand winch mounted on top of the stationary forward portion of the tongue 3 feet forward of the top of the arch.  Also behind the winch at the top centre of the arch there will be a fairlead handling winch cable directly from the hand winch.  Also there will be a conventional 1 7/8" trailer coupler mounted on the front of the tongue.  Also in the sketches there are chain notch brackets (don't know of the correct term) that are un-labeled but they are for chain chokers that will take the weight of the front and middle of the log once it is lifted into place by the winch.

One thing I'm specifically looking for are peoples opinions on whether or not the wheels/tires that I plan on using and the axle/hubs are going to be adequate.

Any feedback about any part of the design or process would be welcomed and greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Overall it looks pretty nice, but I think that you have a weak spot in the tongue at the juncture of the vertical and diagonal members (right in the middle).  In essence, this is a "hinge" point, and may bend/break if you have to stop quickly of if the back end snags on something.  If you run an additional brace parallel to the diagonal one from the top corner down to behind the hitch, it should help out.

[RSteiner]

That looks just like the arch I built 20+ years ago, I saw the plans in Mother Earth News. 

I did the telescoping feature and found I never used it.  The arch I made measured 8' from center of wheels to the vertical piece going down to the tongue which allowed me to handle 18' long logs when you put the large end of the log in the front.

I attached a 2 speed boat type hand winch at the rear of the arch to lift the log so it could be slinged with a chain.  Some times I wish I had one in the front also.  Most of the time I can lowed the 3PH chain up the front of the log and lift the log off the ground with the 3PH. 

If your arch finishes up as good as your drawings look you will have a fine looking project.

Randy 

[ickirby]

How is your arch design (construction?) coming along?

Finally Finnished!!!

I have not had a chance to drag any logs anywhere with it yet the primer is still drying.

I want to thank everyone for their input/feedback on my design.  I incorporated most of the suggestions that you made (or will in the first round of add-ons).

I forgot to mention total budget for the arch including all the fabricating snuck in under $1000 cdn.

Here are some pics (there are others in my gallery)

Extended Tongue


Retracted Tongue


Close up of Tongue and Coupler


Rear Portion of Arch


Rear View of Fairlead


Hub Attachment

[RSteiner]

Nice work!!

Now I bet you can't wait to scratch the paint.  :D

You will find it to be a very useful tool. 

I had to cut down two ash trees that were on the way out which were within 8 feet of my house.  I used my arch to pick up 15 foot lengths of the trees, one was 18" dbh and the other was 10" dbh.  Using the arch saved draging the stems across a softening lawn.

Randy

[trapper]

When my stepson built my arch I hade him put angled bumpers in front of the wheels to push the arch away from trees when i turn too short with the atv.I use a bungee cord between the two uprights to keep the log from swinging when i am traveling.  I go from an eyebolt on one upright arround the log to an eyebold on the other upright I like the idea of a fairlead for the cable to go through.
marv

[tonto]

Nice looking arch, can't wait to see it action. Tonto.