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Prentice 210 C cylinder rebuild

Started by Banjo picker, July 02, 2011, 06:15:13 PM

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Banjo picker

The stick cylinder on my boom has started to leak.  I have a rebuild seal kit, so I am going to take it apart and see whats the matter.   :o   I am wondering if any one on here has any tips to share.  I have the manual with the blow up of the parts diagram, and it looks pretty straight forward....It is very heavy...I am wondering if I could leave the rod asy. attatched and remove the barrel and do the repair without taking it all the way off....There is an 1 3/4" nut on the end of the rod and it looks like it would be nice to have the rod attatched to something pretty substantial....like a knuckleboom ...to be able to remove the nut....any ideas would be appreciated....

It is a 6" x 4" x 40-1/2"   cylinder

Pic's will be along as I get started on it....Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

snowstorm

i leave the barrel and pull the rod. dont have to unhook the hoses. it is usually the easier way if there is one. dose it use v paking? on the rod gland. might want to find out what the rod nut needs to be touqred too. on high pressure cylinders they use a hydrulic wrench

Autocar

I also leave the barrel on and pull the rod, lossen the hoses so when you pull it and put it back togather you don't create a vacum trying to pull it apart. I also take a rope and tie it on the rod so when it comes out I have some control and it dosen't fall down on the floor or kill you  :D It helps if you have help but Ive done them number of times buy myself. Then after I get it on the floor I slip a crow bar though the pin hole on the rod and put a pipe on my breaker bar to start the nut off. Probably not the way alot of fellows do it but it works for me, good luck.
Bill

Banjo picker

The 1 3/4" nut needs 1500 lb. ft. min....Thats the reason I was gona leave the rod asy. hooked up and use what ever was necessary as to leverage to get it loose....but I can see how Autocar could work it that way....surely don't want the killed part coming into play... ;)   I can get some help if necessary...I just hate to ask for it.....

Snowstorm I think it is the rod gland...no mention of v packing...but does have a rod seal and a heavy duty T seal...in the kit....

I was in limbo as which way to go....if you guys have done it at least once...that is one more times than me... :)....thanks for the advice....

Do you have any kind of guessitimation of what the rod will weigh?  It sure looks heavy...Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

snowstorm

this will be one of those jobs that half way throught it youll wish you had taken it to a hydrulic shop. 1500lbs on that nut is a lot for a 3/4 drive .just the rod alone must weight ????????200lbs??????

OldTimbercutter

I pulled the rod on a prentice 150 main boom cylinder not long ago. I was by myself and concerned about how heavy it would be when it come out, and forgot about all the fluid coming out of the barrel. I was soaked in fluid to my drawers ,it was a mess. The rod was heavy but not to bad,I m sure a 210 would be alot heavier. Be careful and dont forget about all that fluid in the barrel when you pull it.
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wwsjr

If you decide to get someone to rebuild, there is a shop just south of Tupelo at Shannon that is very good and reasonable. He rebuilds for most of the loggers in the area. I had all the cylinders on my loader rebuilt for about $120.00 each including parts. I have had no problem with his work. PM me if you want more info.

Willie
Retired US Army, Full Time Sawyer since 2001. 2013 LT40HD Super with 25HP 3 Phase, Command Control with Accuset2. ED26 WM Edger, Ford 3930 w/FEL, Prentice Log Loader. Stihl 311, 170 & Logrite Canthooks. WM Million BF Club Member.

Banjo picker

Snowstorm you may be right, but I think I will press on anyway.  In the past I have taken all my cylinders to the local hyd. shop, but the last time I had one for my 580 K backhoe fixed I asked him how much he thought it would be and he gave me a price , that I don't even rember I think around 150 bucks, then when I came back to pick it up I got some song and dance of why he was gona have to have about 75 more dollars.  He has been in business for a pretty good while he should of known what was involved.  So he won't get the chance this time....

OldTimbercutter the point of the fluid is well taken.  The way it is setting on the rest right now the barrel is full of fluid....But that looks to be the safest way to go about it....

Thanks for the info wwsjr.  If I didn't already have the kit I might do that.  Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

Autocar

Push the stick boom cylinder out as far as it will go then shut off the P.T.O. and let the stick boom come back to you that will get alot of the oil back in the tank. But like the other fellas said there will be oil in it. I should of explained myself some on the rope deal. I use a block and tackle, 3/8's inch rope and try to come up with the balance point or there abouts. Ive never had any problem getting the nut off the rod just becareful when you put your wiper seal back in that you get it in facing the right direction. I had to take one back apart once because I put it in back words and it leaked like a seive  ::) Once that happens your never forget that mistake  :D If I was near you I would be happy to help you out. I kind of get a kick out of working on heavy equipment
Bill

Banjo picker

I'm taking a cool down break...I got the barrel swung from a rope and the forks of the tractor under the rod.  the cap nuts are off but the end of the barrell has moved verrrrrry little...I think about now I would take the hydraulic fluid bath for a quick removal...its hottttt...Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

Autocar

Yep better let it cool down  ;) Your not pulling a vaccum from the hose being to tight on the end of the barrel are you ? Other wise put a ratchet hoist on her and give it a few jacks.
Bill

Banjo picker

I broke the hose connections to let it get air...it took a while working with the end of the barrel but I got it loose finally...I caught about 3 gallons of fluid , the rest hit the ground...all I got was a little splatter on my boots...I got it on the forks of the tractor in the gararge now...I got to come up with a 3 1/2 " socket/wrench/knock wrench or make one to get the nut off the end of the rod....Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

Banjo picker

Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

smwwoody

Keep it clean going back together and make sure you get the nut back on tight enough and you will be good
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ScottAR

Looks like ya got most of the hard part over....   The cylinders I've sealed on my Case backhoe have loctight on the threads so a little
heat may make it easier to come off.  I remember loctight lets go at 500deg or thereabouts.  Obivously take all the rubber parts off first.
Scott
"There is much that I need to do, even more that I want to do, and even less that I can do."
[Magicman]

Autocar

I know it's not the right tool but I always used a pipe wrench to get the nut off, then made ure there wasn't any burs on the nut when I put it back on. Getting the rod with the new seals to start down the barrel will probably teach you a few new words  ;D Ive had some where the barrel is tapered right behind the treads and that will make them slide right in. But other ones are straight and can turn into a bear getting them started. The best one I ever pulled I rebuilt a 120 center mount. I pulled the main boom cylinder apart first it was getting pretty dark so I pushed a old pair of levi slacks in the barrel to keep it clean. Only problem I forgot to take them out ! Hauling out of a sub division on new blacktop streets my buddy calls me and says the boom won't come down,after a few minuites I told him to lossen the hose coupler up a little and let it bleed off. He calls back and said No Oil will come out. I said your nuts and run up there I take the hose clean off and not a drop of oil  ??? . Ended up using the other loader and lay it down ,pulled the thing apart and couldn't believe I pulled a stupid stunt like that. But one thing for sure I never new a pair of blue jeans could be pack as tight as they were  ;D
Bill

ScottAR

A wrap of electrical tape half over the edge with some oil on it makes the straight ones easier to slide on...
They actually make a cone shaped tool for that but nearly every cylinder takes its own size...

Some small pieces of flat stock will shield the nut from the pipe wrench jaws.  Works great if you don't have the
right size socket/wrench
Scott
"There is much that I need to do, even more that I want to do, and even less that I can do."
[Magicman]

Banjo picker

I got it back together and its working fine....I ended up making a knock wrench of sorts out a oa piece of 3/8 stock...I couldn't make myself put a pipe wrench on it...I got pics but I couldn't get them out of the camera last night....I put vasaline on the rod to help get the end cap and such started back on right...

another tip to share--if you cant get a seal to go it easily like the big one inside the end of the barrel cap--the one that was causing the problem in the first place--get a container of water and put it in the microwave and get it to almost boil...drop the seal in there for just a bit...and it slid right in place....I got that bit of info off U Tube....but it works...That was the only seal I had any trouble with...

It went back togeher a lot easier than it came apart, and I was glad... :)  Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

smwwoody

I have used a well oiled piston ring compressor around the seals to help get them started back in the bbl.

Woody
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
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McDonugh gang saw
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McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
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Autocar

Good Deal glad it's back together , nice to get some jobe behind you.
Bill

Banjo picker

Amen Autocar.

I finally found the card reader...I can't get pics off the camera...I tried for a couple of hours last night...finally gave up...First pic is of the wrench I made...3 1/2 inch wrenches are hard to come by in Iuka on the 4 th of July.   The fourth pic is the seal that was leaking ...it came out in pieces         












  The bowl of near boiling water helped get the seal in....use some vasaline to help everything slide back in nice and smooth....No more than I use it these days it should last a while...

That bushing in #4 wasn't as bad as the camera made it look...

Thanks for the suggestions along the way...Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

mog5858

 the water is a very good trick. i know when i re-did 3 cylinder's this winter i was told that was the only way to make the new one's go on. they are made out of some new stuff and would not seat if i did mange to get them on with out braking them. it's amazing how 20 daller and some O rings can do wonders eh.

Autocar

I'll try that hot water idea,Ive always put them on the heater and warm them up.
Bill

Banjo picker

I gave it a real test this evening...Had a load of 20 foot long pine logs come it to unload...the cylinder done fine...but I blew a pin hole in a grapple hose before I got done..   :'(  Will be an easy fix, hose is only about 2 ft. long...Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

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