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Building a bandsaw mill

Started by Ljohnsaw, October 20, 2012, 05:33:08 PM

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Ljohnsaw

Hello all,

I've been lurking for a few weeks now learning all I can - great site!

I'm going to build a bandmill and have seen lots of ideas here and elsewhere.  One idea that intrigues me is having the blade enter the log at an angle such that it actually pulls the mill into the wood.  That way you don't have to push quite so hard on the mill head.  Does anyone have something like this that they can give some feedback?  What angle seems to work the best and do you need to adjust depending on the type of wood being cut?

Right now, I have about 26' of 2" x 4" tube steel that will give me a 13' bed.  I would like to be able to mill in the range of 20'.  So, I was considering adding extensions that would be used just to support the mill head, not logs, and could be made from less stout steel to save weight and money.  Is that sound reasoning?

I also saw a portable mill that would shed it's wheels so the bed is on the ground to make loading logs that much easier.  Any comments on that design?

Thanks!
John

For those of you using electric motors on smaller mills, what size / voltage are you running?  I like the idea of electric, and if small enough, I could run from a generator when remote work is necessary.  Comments, please!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

shelbycharger400

Ok to start out I built a chain bar mill. I have a m14 circle mill that isnt put back together

quote]One idea that intrigues me is having the blade enter the log at an angle such that it actually pulls the mill into the wood.[/quote]

Entering the log at an angle isnt going to do anything special for you. The only way a blade will pull the log is think table saw. The board riding on top of the blade pinches then it grabs and throws the board.  You want to have your saw at 90 deg to the bed or at same plane as the bed.  As with all mills, from what I understand is, circle mill wants to pull the log down as it shears off shavings. My slabber wants to pull the log off the deck to the side and will pull the log out the clamps if sharpened the wrong profile.

make the deck/trailer as LONG as you can! with the rails one piece on each side!
PUT several jacks on the sides. I wish I would have when assembling mine. Mine is only 14 ft long, setup can only cut 9 ft 3 inches max. Its not fun using a 2x4 to lift  the corners to put the wheels on, also its not fun putting boards and shims to level it out.  Car screw jacks would work real well!
Also do your homework,  I spent over a year and a half thinking. pm me if you have some ideas and questions. take a look at my galary and look at my mill, some things might help you, I have changed a few things about it cince the pictures.

davey duck

Hi ,John . I also built a bandsaw ,I used two 30 foot I-beams for the frame ,it will cut 24' logs,better make it long enough to start with. I also run a 10hp electric motor that takes up to 52 amps.David
David G.Fleming

paul case

I had an ez boardwalk model 40 that cut at an angle, 15° I think. It would pull the head into the cut with a new band, but as it got sharpened down the effect was less.

Good luck on the build.
Go big. I never heard of somone wishing they had a smaller mill, just a smaller payment. PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

mikeb1079

i built a bandsaw mill last year and it was a challenging but rewarding project.  here's my thoughts....

QuoteOne idea that intrigues me is having the blade enter the log at an angle such that it actually pulls the mill into the wood.

i don't think this is a bad idea, it's just not something i would mess around with.  having to push the carriage through the cut is no big deal.  it'll be the least of your labors.   :)

QuoteRight now, I have about 26' of 2" x 4" tube steel that will give me a 13' bed.  I would like to be able to mill in the range of 20'.  So, I was considering adding extensions that would be used just to support the mill head, not logs, and could be made from less stout steel to save weight and money.  Is that sound reasoning?

i made my mill bed 16' long and with my carriage setup i can mill around 12 1/2'.  when i built it i thought "man that's plenty long i'll never need to mill anything longer than 12'!"  well i quickly regretted not making the bed 20' or longer.  remember, it's not necessarily that the logs will be that long but it's often getting them in the right position that can be a pain.  for example if you have a really really heavy log that's around 10' your gonna have to load it perfectly in order to mill it if your cut capacity is only just longer.  otherwise you'll have to jack around and move it forward or back to be able to mill it.  trust me this is not easy sometimes.   :)   

i'm not exactly sure what you mean by track extensions only to support the carriage and not the log but i think i understand.  i would make the bed as long and as beefy as possible.  i built mine out of 2x6 1/4" steel and it can stand up to some weight.  just remember that logs are really really heavy and if you don't make your bed stout you'll regret it.   >:(

QuoteI also saw a portable mill that would shed it's wheels so the bed is on the ground to make loading logs that much easier.

i think there's a few smaller portable mills where you stick an axle under the saw bed for transport and then remove axle and set saw bed on ground to saw, is this what your asking about?
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

thecfarm

I brought my mill, I can cut a 20 foot log, never have only 16 foot. It helps to be able to get the head out of the way. And as mike says I don't have to be too fussy where the log goes on the mill. I have feet to play with,not inches. My does not cut at an angle, but pushes very easy. If not,it's time to change the blade.  :( Mine runs on ¼"X 4 inch angle and has 2X6 tubing under that.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: mikeb1079 on October 20, 2012, 10:38:33 PM
<<snip>>
i'm not exactly sure what you mean by track extensions only to support the carriage and not the log but i think i understand.

There needs to be a place for the mill head to ride at each end of the log to start and finish the cut.  I was just thinking that section of track wouldn't necessarily need to support the log...

Quote
i think there's a few smaller portable mills where you stick an axle under the saw bed for transport and then remove axle and set saw bed on ground to saw, is this what your asking about?

Yes.  It seems to me it much easier to roll a log up 4 or 5 inches up onto the deck than 2 or 3 feet!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

beenthere

As long as you don't mind bending down to set the clamps, and pick up the slabs and the boards.....
but I'd go for getting the log up once and then not bend over for the cut material. ;)  prolly just me.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: beenthere on October 21, 2012, 12:21:54 AM
As long as you don't mind bending down to set the clamps, and pick up the slabs and the boards.....
but I'd go for getting the log up once and then not bend over for the cut material. ;)  prolly just me.

EXCELLENT point!  That's why I asked for different points of view.  I'm not a youngster, but then again, I see a lot of loggers here that are a little longer in the tooth than me  ;)

Also, I'd have more room to level the rig if it's elevated.  Tho, does it need to be all that level?  Just well supported?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

bandmiller2

Welcome John,1) don't cut the tube get anouther to match.2) forget the angle thing it will complicate construction.3)have your mill at a comfortable working hight it will also give you room for turners,clamps est. If you can manage it, go three phase electric,grid or genny.The ability to cut long is valuable and something every mill can't do,especially in your area where long and big logs are available.If you build you will get out what you put in, sloppy workmanship sloppy mill.Look at as many bandmills as you can find,use the best ideas on each.Have everything level and plumb as you build the mill,and build it heavier than you think you'll ever need.Good luck and a tail wind. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Meadows Miller

Gday

And Welcome to The Forum John   ;) ;D ;D 8) And What Frank Said is Spoton I use to cut upto 55' and 55' timber is prety dang valuable Mate  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8)

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

thecfarm

I missed the electric part or I would of posted about that. I kinda wished I would of gone that route. My Honda gas motor sits and waits for me,sometimes not patiently either. Meaning I have to do something to it each time. This last time it set for 3 years before I needed it.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

SPD748

Quote from: davey duck on October 20, 2012, 07:24:12 PM
Hi ,John . I also built a bandsaw ,I used two 30 foot I-beams for the frame ,it will cut 24' logs,better make it long enough to start with. I also run a 10hp electric motor that takes up to 52 amps.David

Do you find that 10 hp electric is enough for most sawing? I have been researching this topic for the past few months as I complete my circle mill. It looks like 10 hp is about as large as a single phase motor goes. I did find a 15 hp single phase however the price was significantly higher than a similar three phase motor. I concluded that if anything more than 10 hp was required then a rotary phase converter and a three phase motor would be more cost effective. I, along with many of us, am restricted from grid three phase power without significant installation costs.

-lee
Frick 0 Handset - A continuing project dedicated to my Dad.

410 Deere, 240 Massey... I really need a rough terrain forklift :)

Sawing Since 1-19-2013 @ 3:30 pm
Serving Since 2002
"Some police officers give tickets, some gave all."

Ljohnsaw

I'm working on my plans for a band mill.  I'm curious what the dimensions on the tubes for the rails might be on some of your comercial units (or even home-built).  I'm going with 5x2 tube and either .120 or .250. The difference in weight is significant for what I would be able to move around.  The rail will also have a 1x1x 1/8" angle pointed up welded on top.  The tie bars will be 4x2 and the entire width of the rails will be 40-42".

Thanks for your input!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Solomon

Mine is 3x6  1/4 inch thick wall tubing.  Probabley more than you want if you're trying to keep the weight down.   You may want to ask around on here. You might be able to find a mill that suites your needs ready to go. pc_smiley
Time and Money,  If you have the one, you rarely have the other.

The Path to Salvation is narrow, and the path to damnnation is wide.

beenthere

ljohnsaw
Maybe keep the bandsaw building in the same thread, so your ideas and plans and questions stick together.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,61315.msg900873.html#msg900873
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

grweldon

Personally, there's a big difference in the strength of 1/8" wall and 1/4" wall.  If I were designing one from scratch, I wouldn't use 1/8.  Possibly 3/16, but most likely 1/4 or thicker.
My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

york

The bed rails on my TH are 3by6 and 3/16th thick-you need meat for welding.....albert
Albert

thecfarm

Mine was built by a metal shop here in Maine. ¼" X4"angle that the wheels run on and than under that is 2X4 tubing. I can roll a 2 foot square cant,which is not often,without having to worry about bending or having to reline it. I'm not too easy with anything that I have. I try to be,but things happen.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

SPD748

Do yourself a favor, go with the 1/4" wall thickness. Yeah, it's heavier, but when a + 2000 lb log is rolling around on it you'll thank yourself  :)

-lee
Frick 0 Handset - A continuing project dedicated to my Dad.

410 Deere, 240 Massey... I really need a rough terrain forklift :)

Sawing Since 1-19-2013 @ 3:30 pm
Serving Since 2002
"Some police officers give tickets, some gave all."

Ljohnsaw

OK, there is a consensus! 8)  I'm going with ¼" wall  ;D

Quote from: beenthere on October 30, 2012, 01:46:10 PM
ljohnsaw
Maybe keep the bandsaw building in the same thread, so your ideas and plans and questions stick together.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,61315.msg900873.html#msg900873

I'm confused ???, the link above points to this thread.  Am I missing something or did my thread get re-organized?  Thank you if it was...

I'm going with a 20' length of 5x2x.250 only because the sticks come in that length.  I do have some 4x2 that I might rig up as an extension, possibly just for the carriage, at each end.

Next question (and an opportunity for other to post some pics) is on the cross member for the rails. I'm guessing that the log needs to be supported at a level high enough that you can get pretty close to the bottom with the blade so you can get the final cuts.  Or, do you stack the last bit on some already cut boards/beams to slice it up?

I've seen a few adjustable "bunks" for lifting one end or the other of the log.  If you have something that you really like, I'd like to see a picture of what you have.  I'm going manual on this mill at this time, no hydraulics.

Initially, I will probably be taking the mill to the log.  I was planning on spacing the cross members about 4 foot on center (5 cross members) with an adjustable leg for each rail (10 legs), sound adequate or too much?  I know, never too much or too thick!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

paul case

Now is the time to start looking for a good engine. That may take some time, so keep your ear to the ground for it. Resaerch to see what fits you.
I have had gas motors and they work. Real good for portable. Honda 20 hp has been a good motor for me. I have used an onan. That is all I have to say about the onan I used. I now have a kohler 25 works real well and sips gas compared to the onan.

I would have less money invested in electric. If you are planning for stationary look into it. I have purchased a 20 hp phase converter that will start a 20 hp motor and run 2 of them. I purchased a resaw with 15hp 3 phase and may purchase another motor for my mill and switch it to electric too. 1 motor and the converter is going to cost a little less than the gas engine and should save me as much as $300 a month in gas. Plus it should be more power since electric motors seem to have double the hp comapared to gas motors.PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

thecfarm

I don't feel you need extension on each end. If the head is in the way,I just crank up the blade and move it back to it's starting place. My head is set up so it cuts an inch board the last cut. It will not go any lower so I will not hit my dogs,IF I lower them all the way down.  ::)
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

york

Kohler,now has a few Diesels you could look into..
Albert

thecfarm

Mine have a "Point" on each bunk. I can move my bunks on my mill. I can cut a piece of wood a foot long wood,no jig. Just a ¾ socket to move the bunks.

Here is a picture.

 

 

But the idea I wanted to show was the point. I use the log stop when the log is round. Than when I have it square on 2 sides I drop the stop and use the point. That point is about ½" high.
I just noticed that is the stop I sawed the top of from too.  :(   There should be a little 1 inch lip on the top of the stop. The lip helps to move the stop up and down.I do have some so called marks on my log stops now. This helps when I am edging. I have it marked from 4-10 inches so I can tell at a glance that I will either clear the top or try to cut it off. I have learned that much.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Al_Smith

Since this subject arose as a matter of fact I'm building a saw myself .The frame is a 27 foot 8"high  truck frame that once hauled NFL footballs all over the country .

Tracks are done ,carriage is done .What remains is the saw fixture itself which is rubber tire type that used to be a Ford Escort .

Power is a 30 some HP Wisconsin V4 .Clamping, log turning  and feed will be hydraulic .Power supplied either electric or by a 5 HP Briggs engine .I'm not certain about the set works just yet .

It will be transportable but not readily so because I have no intention of dragging a mill all over Gods' creation to saw up somebodies yard trees .I'm a nice guy just not that nice.

Now then up comes the big debate everyone wants to argue about ,electric power . You can look it up but it goes about like this ,with electric you can pull about twice or more as opposed to the same size gas engine .In other words a 10  electric will do as much as 20 gasser .

So here's how that goes .With a 10 HP three phase motor the motor will draw 25 amps on single phase 240 volts .Now you have to add in the converter load which is approx half or 12-15 amps .So you have approx 36-40 amps at 240 volts or 9,000 watts .Equating to 9 KWH at about 9 cents give or take a KWH .That's 81 cents an hour .

How much gasoline engine can you run for that amount of money ,your lawn mower eats up more than that .

5quarter

Al... Thats great news! How about starting a build thread with pictures? I'm interested to see The track set up and the progress on your saw head. once you got her up and running, you'll wonder what you ever did without one.  ;)
That Wisconsins a great motor, but electric is more efficient and hands down cheaper. in an 8-9 hour day, I'll use about 3 gallons of gas, but I shut the saw down when turning cants or anything else that takes more than a couple minutes. I also idle down when returning for the next cut. also, 81 cents per kwh is when your motor would be under a load, right? figure about 4 hrs of blade-in-wood and thats darn cheap.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

thecfarm

By the way,I have just a regular bicycle brake for my throttle. I push it all the way when I'm cutting,wide open and than when I let go of the handle it drops back to a idle.No reaching for it,it's right there.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: thecfarm on October 31, 2012, 09:42:53 AM
<<snip>>
 

 
<<snip>>
Great ideas, thanks.  I like the moveable aspect.  What did you use for the rail and the part hidden in the snow?  3x4x.250 angle?  Did you go with galvanized?  It looks a little grey in the picture.  I'm wondering about your "dog" that you use to secure the log.  You simply lift the round rod and then whack the bracket so it gets tight and cocked on the bunk?

I am just making a hobby mill - that is, I'm not a logger/sawyer so gross production is not an issue.  I've seen a couple of youtube's with electrics and using only 2 hp (4 hp gas equivalent?).  That affords the use of single phase.  I'm only cutting pine, no hardwood anywhere near me and about 18-24" DBH, making some beams and lots of flooring and wall planking - will I get reasonable performance with that?  Also, do any of you wish you had variable or easily adjustable speeds?  I think I could go as high as 5hp on 240 but I don't really want to go that big if I can get the job done.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: Al_Smith on October 31, 2012, 10:20:17 AM
<<snip>>
So here's how that goes .With a 10 HP three phase motor the motor will draw 25 amps on single phase 240 volts .Now you have to add in the converter load which is approx half or 12-15 amps .So you have approx 36-40 amps at 240 volts or 9,000 watts .Equating to 9 KWH at about 9 cents give or take a KWH .That's 81 cents an hour .

How much gasoline engine can you run for that amount of money ,your lawn mower eats up more than that .
Nice electric rates you have there!  If I cut on my new property, I'm looking at about 13 cents/kwh.  If I cut at my home an hour away, I'm in Tier 3 & 4 (after my house load) so that 34 cents/kwh!!! :o  I'm hoping to use only 2hp so that's 1.920 kw. So .13 * 1.2 / hr is pretty cheap - $0.156/hr
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

eastberkshirecustoms

Quote from: ljohnsaw on October 31, 2012, 12:06:23 AM
Initially, I will probably be taking the mill to the log.  I was planning on spacing the cross members about 4 foot on center (5 cross members) with an adjustable leg for each rail (10 legs), sound adequate or too much?  I know, never too much or too thick!
IMO, I think you would be better off to build in more bunks. 4 ft spacing is quite far apart. The commercial mills have their's much closer. I'm going with a 30" OC spacing on my build, with one at 24" OC. That may seem like an odd dimension, but modeling it with CAD has shown it to be an optimal spacing for my design and needs. It allows room for the turner, dogs, and toe-boards, but also gives support for varying lengths of logs up to 21'. The 24" spaced bunks are to cut short blocks, if necessary.

thecfarm

Here is a picture of the movable bunk,this shows how it sits in place to the frame.The bolt has to be tightened down. the bolt will rise it up against the rail.



 

This one shows the frame and rail. The rail is 3 inch angle stock. The rectangular tubing is 2X4. The cross member is 3 inch channel. All is ¼ inch stock. There is also one piece of channel on the bottom of the 2x4 too.



 

This is the log clamp. Hard to show how it works. But it works great.This shows it not clamped with a gap next to the green tubing that it slides on.



 

This shows it in use. The clamp can also move up too,about 6 inches. Note there is no gap next to the tubing. These really hold the log,cant in place.Just a push with the hand and they will stay where I put them.



 

Just so you know,this was made by a small metal shop in Maine. I only put the green stuff in thier hand to get it to my place.Thomas Band Saw Mills. It's a very simple mill. Just like my signature says,If I Don't Do It,It don't get done. Meaning the work on a manual mill. Good luck with your build. Make your head adjustable. Mine can be adjusted up and down,lowered on one side and it can be tipped up and down too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

grweldon

As "eastberkshirecustoms" suggested, you need to think some more about the bunk spacing also the ramp (to get the log on the bunks) spacing.  On my mill, the ramps are 6' apart... very inconvenient if you have a 4' or even a 6' log.  I'd make provisions to hold and to load a log as small as 3' long.  The 30" bunk spacing he mentioned seems like a good distance to me.  You will also gain some rigidity in the frame with that length of spacing.

If you want to be able to cut a 20' long timber, your frame will have to be longer than 20' by the width of your carriage, even wider to provide more room to load logs.  I know you mentioned this, but "thecfarm" questioned why you would need any longer of a bed.  Also, make sure you have provisions for loading a log this long.  Even though my mill can mill a 20' length, it only has two attachment points for the ramps, again, only 6' apart.  Typical Timberking shortsightedness.  It's a good mill and cuts good lumber, but the attention to detail in design was lacking.

As far as log leveling (known as toe boards), my mill has a manual version that didn't take much engineering at all.  It works OK, but again, some flaws in execution.  It's a modified auto screw jack with a piece of angle welded on top, parallel to the base.  The base of the jack fits in steel channel stock bolted to one of the bunks.  As long as there is weight on it, it works decent.  Trying to get it elevated to the log, the base moves around and even can come out of the channel.  I think you might do better off with a hydraulic jack with and attachment to fit over the screw at the top.  You would have to make sure you have enough clearance to stroke the pump, or better yet, mount a remote pump or buy a jack with a remote pump.  Either way, you will find it useful.  In practice, since I only have one toe-board at the end opposite the carriage, much of the time I end up with the log staged in the wrong direction.  Having one on each end would help with this situation.
My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

york

Well,on my old TH,the bunks are 2'-0" o/c and i like it,would not want them any further apart-remember on longer mills,if the turner is centered for say 16 and 18 ft. logs,it will not work good for 8 and 10 ft.logs-the short logs will be further down the trackway and hard to see-guess why big mills may use pair of turners..

Al Smith,i am anxious to see what you come up with..albert
Albert

francismilker

One thing to think about,with whatever material you end up going with on the carriage, move around a lot when you transition from tacking it to welding it out.  If you spend a lot of time in one area welding a crossbrace totally out you'll likely end up with metal movement and it's near impossible to relieve stress and warps in bowed metal. 

To those talking electric, what kind of price tag would one be talking about to install a 10hp single phase 240v motor?  Also, with electric versus gas, is the HP basically rated the same apples for apples or do you get a different kind of torque when converting over?  I have a 10hp gas on my lt-10 but would like to have electric instead.  Just wondering.
"whatsoever thy hands finds to do; do it with thy might" Ecc. 9:10

WM LT-10supergo, MF-271 w/FEL, Honda 500 Foreman, Husq 550, Stihl 026, and lots of baling wire!

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: york on November 01, 2012, 02:40:19 PM
Well,on my old TH,the bunks are 2'-0" o/c and i like it,would not want them any further apart-remember on longer mills,if the turner is centered for say 16 and 18 ft. logs,it will not work good for 8 and 10 ft.logs-the short logs will be further down the trackway and hard to see-guess why big mills may use pair of turners..
Why is that?  Can't you just put the log anywhere you want on you mill?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: francismilker on November 01, 2012, 08:56:55 PM
One thing to think about,with whatever material you end up going with on the carriage, move around a lot when you transition from tacking it to welding it out.  If you spend a lot of time in one area welding a crossbrace totally out you'll likely end up with metal movement and it's near impossible to relieve stress and warps in bowed metal. 
Thanks.  I've done a bit of welding in my past ranch life and had my share of oops!
Quote from: francismilker on November 01, 2012, 08:56:55 PM
To those talking electric, what kind of price tag would one be talking about to install a 10hp single phase 240v motor?  Also, with electric versus gas, is the HP basically rated the same apples for apples or do you get a different kind of torque when converting over?  I have a 10hp gas on my lt-10 but would like to have electric instead.  Just wondering.
From what I've read, you get twice the effective HP from electric over gas. YMMV
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

bruce29

 

  Building a good efficent bandmill is a big job. It is also a fun & rewarding job.I recently completed my sawmill. You need to think way ahead to what you will want on the mill( hyd clamps, turner, loader, etc) and make sure that you take all that into account when determing everything from metal thickness to bunk spacing.Its easy to overlook something & cause yourself work & grief. I took my time and was able to build something that operates like it should and something I am proud of.I will try to post picture.

 

bandmiller2

Bruce,professional job on that mill mate.Just a couple of comments.Go with 1/4" wall you can drill and tap to attach parts allowing you to easily make changes and improvements,and avoid welding stress.Electric is light years ahead of any outher power,and sure easy to start.You can buy whats called gun taps and power tap with a strong reversable drill.As I've said before a fella really needs to build two mills one to learn and one to perfect. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Al_Smith

I'll get the pictures up in a day or so .It's been a slow process .Lot's of things like working 12 hour days ,building a home addition and things like that .

Now then ,set works .Jwood who posts occasionally and lives about 25 30 miles from me has a little mill with a link chain set works .I saw the mill once but can't for the life of me remember exactly how the thing worked .

It was slick,each click of the ratchet pawl mechanism was a quarter inch .A sight faster than using acme thread rods .

If I had the basics it would not be a big deal to use a reduction chain of two to one because I'll be lifting probably 700-800 pounds with the Wisconsin  4 and the saw assembley .

If anyone has a picture of that type set works I'd surely appriciate it because my pea brain just can't remember it .

Before I go much farther with that project I need to get my Monarch lathe back running which is also the reason I haven't done any hot rod saws lately .It's a Monarch 10" EE one of the most complicated DC drives I've ever seen .

thecfarm

Bruce,that looks like quite the mill you built. Hyds and all.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

grweldon

Bruce,

Indeed that is a very nice mill.  Would you mind sharing pics of your log loader?  I want to add them to my mill and I'd like to see how you did it...

Bandmiller2,

While it IS done, it's not recommended to have thread length less than 1 1/2 the diameter of the screw being used.  Timberking does it with 3/16 thick tubing for the blade guides on my 1400.  I don't like it one bit, it's a weak point in the design.  At the very least they should have welded a nut on to the tubing, better yet, a piece of stock.  Then drill and tap the whole thickness.

With 1/4 thick tubing, I'd be afraid I would strip out the threads in the tubing, even with a 1/4" screw, especially coarse threads.  If you are in a design situation where you need more thickness on a piece of tubing for threads, a piece of round stock of suitable diameter welded to the tubing, then drilled and tapped is the correct way to achieve proper thread depth.
My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

bruce29

I dont have any close up pictures of the log loaders at the moment but i will try to take a few. I built my log loader based on seeing the timberking loader on thier website.It seems to be a good solid design, wish I could take credit.

Al_Smith

A general rule of thumb regarding thread depth is 1 for steel 2 for cast iron and 4 for aluminum .1/4" wall tubing you could probabley get away with 1/4" 20 bolts which don't take much torque .

However I do agree that any load bearing fastener should have a welded plate then threaded.

Ha I've worked around an industrial environment so long I think every thing should be grade  8 but often it isn't neccessary .Old habits die hard  ;)

bandmiller2

Very true about tapping 1/4" tube.Use flanges to support weight when ever possible,or use more bolts. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

grweldon

Grade 8 bolts are not always desirable.  They are hard and brittle and prone to breaking when subject to vibratory stresses.  Grade 5 is much better in this application.
My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

Al_Smith

You have a good point but like I say--old habits  ;).What ever you use do yourself a favor and Never -Seeze the fasteners .You'll thank yourself some day after it's sat outside in the elements and you can still get the bolts out .

I scolded a tree trimmer bud of mine for not using anti sieze on the grade 8's on a chipper which holds in the knives which I drilled out .Grade 8's mind you .The second time I did it  I reprimanded him severely .

bandmiller2

Never seeze is like mothers milk to a truck/equipment mechanic,it will reward you for years to come.If you have a driver that gives you a hard time put a tiny dab on the back of his shift knob,they will call him the silver streak. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Hilltop366

Watching and learning.

Bruce29 nice looking build! I will look at all the pictures or video you or anyone else are willing to put up.

Quote from: bandmiller2 on November 05, 2012, 08:36:35 AM
Never seeze is like mothers milk to a truck/equipment mechanic,it will reward you for years to come.If you have a driver that gives you a hard time put a tiny dab on the back of his shift knob,they will call him the silver streak. Frank C.

Don't forget the door handle!

Al_Smith

 :D Ha never-seeze on a knob .Try prussion blue sometime .It has to wear off .I can be a meanie at times just not that mean . ;)

steamsawyer

A rookie weldor will learn real quick, never pick up your hood and put it on without looking for never seeze in the head band. :D
J. A. Vance circular sawmill, 52" blade, powered by a 70 HP 9 1/2 x 10 James Leffel portable steam engine.

Inside this tired old mans body is just a little boy that wants to go out and play.

Great minds think alike.....  Does your butt itch too?

Alan Rudd
Steam Punk Extraordinaire.

Ljohnsaw

OK, I got reprimanded once, no_no ;) so I'll NOT start another thread.  I'll just continue here...

I'm going to take the collective wisdom from the group and hopefully make a nice hobby mill.

I am going to copy thecfarm's mill design with the 2x4 tube steel with 3x3 angle (might down-size to 2x2) on top and 2x3 C channel cross members and adjustable log supports.  I'll probably through in a couple of 2x4 cross members to match the main side rails for more rigidity.  I will add multiple hooking points for the log ramps to adjust to the size of the logs loaded.

I will also borrow grweldon's idea and put a toe board at each end for leveling the logs.

I've collected several doughnut spare tires and a pair of stub axles from the junk yard to use as the band wheels ($100 invested).  I just received today a box with 10 three inch cast iron pulleys (3/8" cap) that I will use for the head rollers and lift system ($45 invested). I'm almost ready to go buy some steel for the head works.  I know what I'm going to use for the bed, pretty straight forward.  However, I'm going to make the head works first and then make the bed to fit that.  Its looking like I should use some inch and a half square tube for a stout frame of either 3/16 or 1/4".  Sound about right?  I have a bunch of 14 gauge (heavy stuff) sheet metal to use for the blade shroud.

I'm going to buy a blade or two to have while I build so I get all the dimensions right and to test it.  I will eventually be sawing lodgepole pine, incense cedar and quaking aspen.  It will be cut into 8x8, 8x10, 10x12 etc posts/beams, 5x purlins etc - whatever the calcs work out - and lots of flooring/roofing and wall planks.  Most of my trees are 18" - 24" DBH.  Can you all recommend the proper blade(s) to use for this application?  I do have some limited small oak and may cut for curved braces.  I will be using a 185" blade to give me just over a 36" cut width. This will also give me about a 30" wide by 20" high max beam size (which I don't think I will ever do) but will come in handy when I make some wide slabs for counter tops.

Oh, and just so you know I will be safe - I just ordered a hardhat with screen visor and ear muffs, 11 layer Kevlar wrap-around chaps and some gel gloves with Kevlar backs.

Oh yeah, I bought a new (2012) Grizzly 550 8) Got it "out the door" for about $1,200 less than the sticker price so I figure I saved close to $2k.  Pick it up on Saturday - but it will be raining/snowing on my property all weekend  :(

Thanks! - love this place smiley_gossip
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Art_H

RE; Angled cutting, is a new thing that may become popular.  The theory is to not 'shock' the band if it enters the full width all at once.  By angling 10 degrees ish, the band progressively enters the log and will tend to maintain rpm and more likely to cut straight and where you want it to rather than rising up etc.

If I was building a band mill, it's what I would do.  Chain mill would be less of an issue with the bar strength etc.

Have a look around some of the newer band mills, it's a new thing, and the logic supports an angled band saw.  The angled cutters worked during the French Revolution...

Art

beenthere

Art_H
Welcome to the Forestry Forum

Where does your info come from, about 'angled' cutting?

Theory, or design experience?  or other?

Interesting thought. And it has been discussed here over the years.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

roghair

I'm new to the forum and also in the process of building a hobby sawmill. You can see some pictures in my gallery if you are interested.
I was wondering if you are using the rubber absorbers for the motor. I have them installed but are not satisfied with the result, maybe they are to flexible for this motor or should I take them out anyways?
Who has experience with this? How is the vibration in the saw if you don't use them at all?

built a sawmill

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