Disappointed in Woodmizer

[TGS]

I called last Monday and ordered a box of 7 degree blades to try out. I've heard you fellas talk these up quite a bit so when it came time to order I went back to woodmizer. The lady I spoke with was really friendly and I thought all went well but my card was never debited and my blades never came in. The last WM blades I bought was 2 years ago and they came a few days later. After a week of rain we finally have a few dry days before it gets wet again Saturday. When ups didn't stop this morning I called - low and behold the order was never placed. My credit card information and ship to address was updated correctly but no work order for my 150" blades. So here I sit facing another unproductive week. I hate to order another box of Lennox but I know they would be here by Wednesday for at least two dry days if work. I know mistakes happen but dang.

[thecfarm]

As I say,why does it always happen to me.

[beenthere]

One of the things I like about ordering online is the immediate invoice of my order that comes by email.

Wonder if that is possible with WM ??

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Call Wood-Mizer back and explain your situation. Ask if will give next day free shipping.

[TGS]

You can order online if you have one of their stock lengths. Mine is for a B20 and isn't a stock length so I have to order over the phone.

[tcsmpsi]

One of the things I like about ordering online is the immediate invoice of my order that comes by email.

Wonder if that is possible with WM ??

10-4 on that.  Invoice and order number.

[hackberry jake]

Menominee saw also sells wm bands. You can get 4 different kinds of bands (or more maybe) in one box. I ordered a mixed box of 10 bands of 4 different varieties and that was pretty neat. Like a sampler platter at a restaurant.

[Mooney]

I talked to Gary Moore about your issue, and he let me know that he placed the order and marked it as 'Urgent' when you called this morning. Sorry for the mistake.   :-\ Hope you're able to try out those new blades in some good weather.

[drobertson]

Looks like they are working on the problem. I do like the wmz blades, but have been using the  Cooks' Super Sharp, I'm pretty sure they make blades for most mills, I would not hesitate keeping a few different makes handy.  just my opinion.

[T Welsh]

TGS, Its a fluke! It happens we are all human. I have never had an issue with ordering over the phone or on line. This in my opinion is one of the best companies out there in customer service. Its nice to know if I need them they will there for me!And they always have in at least 20 transactions over the last 2 years.  8). Tim

[Busy Beaver Lumber]

My two cents for what it is worth. I think it is poor form to openly criticize a company before giving them the opportunity to make good on a mistake. According to Jacob, Woodmizer was more than willing to take ownership of the problem and give it top priority when the error was brought to their attention.

I personally have had nothing but good experiences with Woodmizer. When I broke a part on my LT-10 and called them at 4:15 in the afternoon to order a replacement part under warranty, I was absolutely shocked when it arrived before noon on the following day.

In my opinion, anyone can make an error, but it is how they take ownership of the discrepancy and make good for the problem that speaks volumes about their character and how much they value their customers, and along those lines, Woodmizer sets the standard for others to follow.

[barbender]

What Busy Beaver said. I realize it stinks when you end up missing days of production, but it wouldn't have happened if you would have ordered blades before you where out (this is advice to myself, too ;D). Well organized cats like the Magicman never wait till they get down on blades before ordering replacements ;)

[dgdrls]

"To err is human, to forgive divine." A. Pope,

The sun will come up tomorrow and we will all be a little wiser

DGDrls

[Magicman]

I have had mix ups and miscommunications, but never anything to complain about.  Even with phone orders, I get an email detailing and confirming each order. 

[Cedarman]

In 29 1/2 years owning WM, there has never been a company with such great customer service.  I once called because an order of blades weren't at the mill by 5 PM the day after I ordered them.  I called WM to see what happened.  They checked and said FEDEX had them to be delivered that day.  Well, they got there about 6.  FEDEX was just running late that day. When you are used to getting shipments by 1 or 2 the day after ordering, the only thing better is getting them before you order them.
I'm like MM, usually get a shipping notice by e-mail.
The latest mill has 13,500 hours on it.  I still expect it to perform just like it came out of the box. 
The number one rule with WM is if you have a problem, get on the horn and they will iron it out without delay.

[learner]

Things don't allways go the way we plan them.  Ordered a meter from WM then the next day had a sensor go out and ordered it.  The sensor arrived 3 hours before the meter did.
Fedex has 2 shipping departments.  Overnight Air and overnight ground.  Because of that the two orders were put on two different trucks.  It's no wonder they are having problems.
My point is this.  Allways plan for problems and you'll allways be Happy when things work out better than expected.
Woodmizer has Allways gone the distance to keep us sawing.  2 or 3 days downtime is nothing because there is Allways something else that needs to be done.  There is Allways something you've been meaning to do but haven't got around to it.  Spend that downtime doing it and everything works out.

[Buck]

Very well said Learner!

[TGS]

Easy fellas, I didn't ask anybody to pour out their orange kool-aid, I was just making rainy day conversation. If you re-read my original post I think you'll see that I didn't jump on here to bash woodmizer.. I said I was disappointed, but that doesn't mean I'm ready to climb a water tower over it. I told about how friendly the reps were, and I admitted that mistakes are gonna be made. My conversation with the rep this morning got the blades on order and as he told me, it would be marked urgent. The downside was that he admitted that urgent could still be 3-5 days lead time before the blades shipped. When I placed my order I still had blades to work with. I fully expected that they would come in during all of the rain we had at the end of last week and at the very least they would be here by tomorrow morning. When the rain shut me down last week I still had one left so failure to plan was not the issue.

I fully expect the blades to come in and perform as well as I have read on here. Does that make me feel any better about waiting another 4-6 days? No! Will this slip-up cause me to not order anymore WM blades? Of course not. As a matter of fact I have an appointment to go look at a fairly new Lt70 this weekend - if i like it and the seller will deal I'll be pulling it home.

It's all good.

[T Welsh]

TGS, Good for you on the LT! You have to understand that when a problem with a Woodmizer comes up,we all stand up and pay attention and we do get our orange cool aid mix out for the pour ;D. Let us know how the LT works out! Tim

[FeltzE]

Orange kool aid? Havn't had that in a while.

[Jemclimber]

The orange koolaid was very good to me. I broke a part on my WM and they sent it to me free of charge. I'll keep drinking the orange stuff. ;D

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

"To err is human, to forgive divine." A. Pope,

The sun will come up tomorrow and we will all be a little wiser

DGDrls

Or should that read: The sun will come up tomorrow and we will all be a little older?

[GeorgeK]

I am new  but woodmizer has been great. Three ordersthey are ship fast in FEDEX. Also they have ansered all my questions about my mill even though bought used.

[Chuck White]

Like most businesses, many times, when it rains it pours.

Most likely the order was written down and the phone rang and the order got something laid on top of it and became lost!

I have a good feeling that Wood-Mizer will come good on the order!  ;)

[kderby]

I like the Orange Koolaid  8) idea, might have to get some.

I keep three boxes of blades in circulation (mill, resharp, UPS) and I have a brand new box un-opened.  Without blades my mill doesn't work.  This thread is a good chance to review your blade strategy and if you need to step up the inventory......

I also keep a group of damaged blades for milling trees with suspected nails.  I use the beater blades when I mill blocking/crib material or where the finish cut does not matter (fenceposts).

Work is what I do.  Without blades things would get pretty quiet.

kderby

[Tree Feller]

One of these days folks are gonna learn that it does no good to slam Woodmizer on this forum.

I'm not a Woodmizer owner but there are about a gajillion of you here and, to a man, you sing Woodmizer's praises whenever someone tries to trash them. That's going beyond mere brand loyalty and has to be the result of user satisfaction with their product and service. When that many disparate personalities and locales agree, I tend to pay attention.

I think it's funny that an unflattering Woodmizer post always turns into an endorsement for buying Orange.

[Beaudeane]

I think it's odd that someone can post an actual negative experience & it's considered slamming or trashing ... I think all experiences being posted, IE, good or not so good would educate us all & keep customer service top notch as it seems WM  is considered to have by most of the folks on here... Just saying

[Ianab]

Posts that are just made to "slam" any supplier, and especially a sponsor, quickly end up in the Woodshed.

But in this case it was a reasonable and factual post, about a problem that had occurred, and it had inconvenienced the OP, as he had no blades to saw with. All understandable stuff.

Even a top of the line service orientated company like WM makes errors occasionally. There is no point pretending they don't. Often the difference is how a mistake is handled. A good company like WM just get on to it and fix the problem as quickly as practical.

I would never trust an "infallible" organisation, or buy an "unbreakable" machine. Because the one thing you can be certain of is that when something does inevitably go wrong, there is no way of fixing it. So WM don't claim their mills never break down. Instead they say that if (when) they do, you can easily get to talk to a technician, and order parts with quick delivery, and get the issue fixed.

That is what good service is all about.

Ian

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Well said Ian. 

[Tree Feller]

If the OP's post was not intended to show Woodmizer in a bad light, then what was the point in posting it?

He ordered bands from them, they dropped the order, he tells the forum and the world about it.

True and factual...absolutely. Slamming...in my book it is. If this was the second or third time it happened or if WM had a history of poor service, I would understand. I don't understand a public complaint about a one-time, honest mistake.

To me it would be the same as someone's sawing customer getting on here and complaining about one wavy board out of a 500 bf stack...but not acknowledging that the other 490 bft was exceptional.

Oh well, I'll shut up now.

[Jeff]

I agree with Ian, and Tree Feller both. A good company will have jumped on the problem with just a follow up call. They didn't need a topic titled "Disappointed in such and such" to be posted here to do it first. It just needed to be brought to their attention. Now, if a phone call to them resulted in further non-performance, then, I'd say come here for help, but I'd much rather see something titled: "Having trouble with blade shipment, any ideas".  As Ian said, you can darn well betcha, if we feel someone is posting just because the have an axe to grind and not because they really want any help, I don't care what the company is, the topic will get sent to the woodshed and they will be warned.

In this case there was an issue. I can't say I was wild about how it was brought up, but it was an issue for the original poster that needed attention, so we left the topic.

[woodmills1]

Ifin ya really want to have not a chance of down time due to blades I would say get a sharpener and setter package


that said................ :P  when I have a positive experience I post it quick at any location I visit


on a negative I usually wait to see the outcome to the final resolve before I speak out



If it takes forever then I start my rant based on the time

[SAWMILL BUDDY]

I try to keep 100 blades on hand at all times. I never run out. ;D

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

When I first started out, I didn't have enough blades nor had I learned how to manage my blades on hand vs. what was in re-sharp. My blades were late sometimes, not because of WM but because of the shipping company.
When my blades were late....I HIT THE GOLF COURSE!  8) I love my job!

[drobertson]

Nothing like having the additional funds, as mentioned before, I guess we all should have been boy scouts, or golfers!  ;D  I feel for this situation, mainly because if it were anyone that has ever had an issue with companies in the past regarding a shipping issue, how much grace have we shown? Just saying, I know of at least four wmz owners, not on the forum, that are so fett up with wmz and their products that they will never use them(wmz) again. Not to mention the repercusions of the events that led to this.  If one or more are happy and satisfied, WELL DONE!   Stress is Stress,  and it effects all of us at some point, and this is all it is.  david

[Mooseherder]

It appears more than one or two are satisfied with their products and piling on with hearsay sure adds to the disappointment.
This title sure would put any company, entity or person in a no win situation.  I guess they had not make any more mistakes without being given an opportunity to correct.  Now we have someone speaking up for phantom owners to continue the slam.

[Tree Feller]

After posting, I went back to the shop and while I was blowing up turning blanks I thought about what I wrote. In hindsight, the terms "slam" and "trashing" that I used were inappropriate and I apologize. What I should have said was "whenever anyone has an issue with WM" or "when someone posts something unflattering about WM."

The point I was making was that those type threads always turn into a WM love-fest.   

[beenthere]

Now we have someone speaking up for phantom owners to continue the slam.

That is disappointing.
WM supports this forum so that we all can enjoy it. Nothing gained to diss them, any more or less than any other sponsor,  IMO.

[hamish]

The OP had an issue with Woodmizer and as a member here he should have voice.  I read all the posts, he just stated that somebody dropped the ball, plain and simple.
Many negative posts are made about other manufacturers quite regularily on this forum, and many of "the" other manufacturers are sponsors also. 
The OP had a legitimate issue to voice his concern over, it was not a "X-company" is crap kind of post, or an issue without validation.

Posts such as his give the manufactures that are actively involved in the sponsoring of the forum, a chance to help out and make it right, or just do business as they do.

Many sponsors on this site are never heard from, thankfully a few orange companies are active.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Let's put the shoe on the other foot.

As a sawyer, do you try to do a good job?
Do you try to accommodate your customers needs?
Do you shake a customer's hand and smile while biting your tongue because he has a bad attitude?
Have you ever made a mistake in Board Footage calculating a customer's bill?
Have you ever sawed lumber the wrong dimension?
Have you ever lost a customer's phone number and could not call him when you said you would?
I can go on and on......

I am guilty of everyone of the above.......but I made it right.
Would I appreciate it if a customer went around telling ALL how disappointed they were in me and the way I run my sawmill business?
Well NO I wouldn't.

Do I continue to make mistake......YES I do. I am human.

Has Wood-Mizer ever made me mad? NO
Has Wood-Mizer ever disappointed me? NO
Has Wood-Mizer ever made me "POKE OUT MY LIP"? Well yes they have......but it was MY OWN DANG FAULT, NOT THEIRS.

I can only speak for David Poston.....I try to be careful what I say when the chips are down. 

[Tree Feller]

...I try to be careful what I say when the chips are down. 

Be careful where you step, too, because when the chips are down, the cow is empty!   :D

[drobertson]

I am in no way trying to slam wmz, or any anyone else.  I have just stated the facts, phantom or not, and not for sure.  All of the issues I have seen have always been on the engineering side of things.  This comes with the territory of manufacturing.  I chose WMZ for their design and love it. The electronics could use some improvements, but so could my book keeping :D  So all of the of the folks that are ready to go battle, save it for a year or two when our country really needs some warriors!  David Robertson, wmz owner, and proud american! 8)

[drobertson]

I am a wmz'r owner, an love my LT-40 Super, 51hp cat, with its' portable capabilities. But I must say, that I am amazed at the response of so many that have responded to a post regarding a less than positive attitude to a purchase from wmz.  I feel like in no way has wmz been attacked in their credebilty.  But due to the  overwhelming post, some comments have been made, which lead to additional comments, which lead to this post. I have owned an LT-40 super from 04' til present,  having just under 2100 hrs. on it.  I have experienced many good days.  But this has to go with the many bad days coming from faulty engineering.  Electrical to be exact.  I have always had to be accountable for all my mistakes in the tool and die industry, and would expect
anyone else to be held accountable for theirs as well.  A smile and a kiss does not always cover the wound, just ask our beloved warriors familes,   david

[Buck]

Is it truly faulty engineering or a high service type system due to being portable and at work?. Lets kick this discussion some. I have two orange beasts and learn every time I use them.

[SPIKER]

I do electrical Engr for outdoor power equipment & trust me it is difficult to find something that wills tick up to the rigors of outdoor heavy equipment use.!   Plugs and Wire Connections for use outside are hard to get / use / find but worst part is getting assembly techs to even follow directions on the prints on how to install/wire/treat the connections properly.   Today was a perfect example, spent 3 hrs working w shop electrician attempting to find a short circuit in a harness.   after tearing everything apart we didnt find anything but the short was gone after re-assembly.   SO the short will either be fixed, come back during testing or show up in the field with the new owners.   I wanted the tech to go ahead and take a close look at the main plugs on the machine but he felt it was all better & would be a waste of time.    I'm not his supervisor so can't demand him take a look but I tried 3 times to have him go thru it better, just hope it fails ASAP again so he can go back and tear it all apart and do what I suggested.

M

[Okrafarmer]

Spiker, I had an electrical failure on our 1990 LT-40HD today. (not surprising with a machine that old, I don't hold the company responsible for that!)  My clamp simply refused to function, not a single sound out of the valve or pump or anything. So I had our mech angel come down and look at it. He twiddled with it, tested the wiring, found that the wiring was hooked up good, and was about to open up the control valve system, when he tried it again, and it worked fine!    ??? : We fiddled with a while, and it failed a couple more times while we were messing with it, then it failed less and less, and we put the cover back on, and I sawed with it until dark with no more problems.  ;D

[Jeff]

I see absolutely no good reason what so ever by "spreading" this by dragging this to a new topic . It is being merged with the existing topic. like it or not.

[Okrafarmer]

The biggest thing I'm disappointed with my Woodmizer is when I stick a size 8 log on a size 4 mill, and the log won't go through the powerhead.    :'(  (But whose fault is that?  :D )

Look, we're all human.

If this problem had happened to me, I don't think I would have started a thread saying I was disappointed in Woodmizer. Instead, I would have called them up and asked them about it, and gotten it straightened out. I figure most good people have at least a 10% mistake rate, so a company that has less than a 5% mistake ratio is a pretty dern tootin good one.

BTW, if any other company out there wants to overtake WM and become the premier portable sawmill company in the western hemisphere (and the world), then they need to do two things consistently.

1. Beat WM's technology and design features
2. Beat WM's customer service.

While I think there are some companies that either match or come close to matching them in one or the other or possibly both, nobody beats them at both, as far as I can see.

Since they introduced the world to portable thin-kerf bandmill, and started well, and have been steady ever since, they started ahead and remained ahead. That's why I say anyone who wants to overtake them, must not merely match their quality of design and also customer service, but actually beat them.

My 3 cents. (inflation)

[Okrafarmer]

Also, as has been said already, If we say we're "disappointed" with our sponsors too much, they may become disappointed with us-- and go advertise elsewhere. That could make our Forum disappear.  :'(

While I sometimes don't like feeling like I can't freely speak my mind without offending someone, the fact is that there are some things, like sponsors, that we just have to accept without causing trouble, whether we like those sponsors or not.

I see we have a new sponsor on here recently, so I shall have to watch my mouth about them now too!   

Having said that, I have gotten to the point where, when I actually see that a company is a sponsor on here, it gets me to start rethinking what I "think" I know about them. If they go to the trouble to advertise on here along with the other "good" companies, that shows me they have nothing to hide, and they are brave enough to step into the light. Besides which, I don't think Jeff lets unreliable companies be sponsors.

But I guess it's still acceptable to bash tell the truth about Harbor Fr'ight, though!  ;D

[Jeff]

Harbor Fr'ight, though!

My problem is with torthern Nool

[Okrafarmer]

Harbor Fr'ight, though!

My problem is with torthern Nool

Ah, yes. I knew that, for sure. Maybe you were considering Harbor Fr'ight for a sponsor? 
smiley_horserider

[Jeff]

Umm... NO

[Okrafarmer]

Ah, sigh of relief. Now that we've cleared the air on that, I guess there are at least two companies we can rest assured are not likely to ever be sponsors here.

[TGS]

Making sawdust is not my only business so I have lots of opportunity to mess up. I absolutely make mistakes and nearly every time I make one I eat it. We're all entitled to mess up, its human nature. But at the same time we are obligated to make it right as promptly as possible. I DID NOT post here before I contacted woodmizer. Anyone can read my posts and see that. The only mistake I made was posting a topic as though I were sitting around hamming it up with some good ol' boys in the saw shed. Clearly I didn't consider everyones feelings for pointing out a legitimate mistake that woodmizer made. For that I humbly apologize.

Plain and simple, they messed up. Whether any member on here wants to accept it or not the mistake is woodmizer's (by their own admission). SUBSEQUENT to my SECOND call to woodmizer, I made this post. Telling me that my order is marked urgent but could still likely take 3-5 days before it ships is not satisfactory. I appreciated the man's honesty and I told him as much. If my order had been forgotten but had been moved to the front of the line and overnighted then this post would have gone much differently. I made a benign post that got noticed by someone in the company who could make a difference. If my blades show up sooner than 4-6 days I will absolutely believe that it was the result of this post. BTW, mooney, I appreciate you looking into the issue for me. Good, bad, or ugly, those blades mean the difference between a merry christmas and gift wrapped IOU's this year!

Not once did I say that woodmizer was a bad company. I used their blades for years before I went with a B20 and switched blade manufacturers and will probably continue to use them for years to come. By the way, as much as I would like to spend $2600 on 100 blades to keep rotating, it isn't feasible for me.

[Mooney]

I think with TGS's last comment, we can probably all mutually agree to close this thread. WM is a huge fan and supporter of this forum, and much of the loyalty that is displayed by members is because it was earned by WM over the years - through a problem!

Not everyone is going to express their honest disappointment on the phone with a tech. I called a vendor the other day, and found that the item (Pro Sawyer Network binders) that were quoted to be shipped to me that day, hadn't even entered production yet. I was understandably miffed, but I just didn't trust myself to do anything but hang up the phone.

Having the forum allows us to sometimes discover mistakes or miscommunications we would not have caught otherwise. This is a place where public discourse keeps us conscious of meeting needs, and recognizing problems.

Thanks all, and TGS, I thank you for keeping your head in the orange bloodbath  :D

[learner]

Can't we all just get along? 


 

Keep smiling everyone!