The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: geraldhale on November 01, 2011, 08:11:48 PM

Title: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: geraldhale on November 01, 2011, 08:11:48 PM
 I have a 2005 lt40 super electric with everything I could get on it and upgraded after some problems to the accuset 2 in 2008, I used the mill some when it was new to up my production of my big mill but dont use it to much now, it only has 1100 hours on it and today the head all of a sudden just stoped going down? it would go up but not down so I did the trouble shhoting and called wood mizer and was told I need to buy a $700 (FUSE) H block panel, there is no protection for this and I was told it got fried by what could be a bad ground or loose wire or who knows? they called it transient voltage?
I was told they cant put any kind of protection on this panal and it scares the you know what out of me to think about replacing a $700 panal and that it may go again at anytime for several reasons!!!!
Has anyone else had and gone threw this problem ?
I was told that because the drive and up and down motors are DC they run at a much higher voltage than AC motors and that makes it much harder to protect ? with that in mind since they sold me a three phase electric mill I wish they had put AC motors on it to start with??????

Any help or advice would be appreciated.





/
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: Jasperfield on November 01, 2011, 09:57:41 PM
I'm only about eight hours from Richmond.

How much do you want for it?
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: Taylortractornut on November 01, 2011, 10:58:34 PM
Something Ive learnt  mechanicing  and  parts hunting is that that  part was probably outsourced.     I have a friend that rebuilt a metal shear that was getting scrapped at work,      The company had a little electric part that was gonna cost 900 to replace.  He got it from radioshack for 9.95.   look around a bit for it, even look at the part for a supplier.     Can you post a picture  of the part?   Try an electrical supply outlet.
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: Old Hilly on November 02, 2011, 03:49:18 AM
Gerald, you can bet that the saw maker didn't build the panel. They might have designed it but they didn't actually make it, some other company did the circuit layout, installed the components, mounted the board in a box with some conectors and sent it off to the saw maker.
What you need to do is some detective work and here, Google is your best friend. You might even find that there is a rebuilt/service exchange  device available, assuming that this box contains components other than just plain old fuses. If it's only fuses then just go out and buy a ready-made panel from your local auto-parts store. If there are lots of little black and coloured things with lots of legs :o soldered to a circuit board then you need someone (probably younger than about 20) who talks a strange language ??? and has really thick glasses :P because he plays with these things all day. Someone called an "electronics nut" down here in OZ.
Good luck mate.
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: Bibbyman on November 02, 2011, 08:03:23 AM
We had the Accuset 2 about a year before it was available to the public as we were one of the locations that they field tested it.  We updated the software programming a number of times and maybe swapped out a couple of small components but nothing has failed. 

It's been like an anvil in reliability.   Then we use ours every day and it is under roof but does suffer from all the other heat, cold, humidity, etc. that nature puts out.   
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: Meadows Miller on November 02, 2011, 10:51:02 AM
Gday

and welcome to the forum Geraldhale ;) :):) 8) 8) I cant help you with your isue at hand  :( but I would like to know what type of mill you are running Mate  ;) ;D ;D 8)

Hilly if you ever know off anyone that needs someone that is awesome with sett works and sizing systems down here I can put you onto a top bloke in Melbourne he can sort out anything  :o :) ;) :D ;D ;D 8) 8)

Regards Chris
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: geraldhale on November 02, 2011, 01:25:16 PM
Quote from: Bibbyman on November 02, 2011, 08:03:23 AM
We had the Accuset 2 about a year before it was available to the public as we were one of the locations that they field tested it.  We updated the software programming a number of times and maybe swapped out a couple of small components but nothing has failed. 

It's been like an anvil in reliability.   Then we use ours every day and it is under roof but does suffer from all the other heat, cold, humidity, etc. that nature puts out.   



Yes this is my secound wood mizer, and mine is in a building also and Ive been fairly happy with it but it does not get ran everyday, but a $700 part that can go bad at a drop of the hat and cant be pined down to to a particular problem? the talk I had with wood mizer was they can send me several things to check and I guess that is what I will do but it still makes me nervous at best, I just wish there was some way I could protect this part.
As for looking to buy this panel dirrect? the only markings on it is wood mizer? and I have no problem buying it somewhere else it I could save money but dont get me wrong Ive been happy with wood mizer over all and have owned one for over 15 years but this problem in there mill makes me a nervous customer.
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: mikeb1079 on November 02, 2011, 07:36:18 PM
gerald try to post a pic if you can of the part.  it may help some here to see it and troubleshoot for you.
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: spencerhenry on November 03, 2011, 09:12:10 AM
sounds like original accuset. i had several of them crap out which were replaced under warrantly. finally i got accuset 2, never a problem since. it is not a simple electronic part that you will find anywhere except from the people who make it.
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: DanG on November 03, 2011, 10:19:29 AM
Hi Gerald, and welcome. :)

Their use of the term "transient voltages" suggests that they are talking about some kind of very sensitive electronic components.  The recommendation that you check for loose wires and grounding is good advice, as that would be the likely cause of the failure.  The components inside of that module are tiny, and many of them are designed to work with voltages like 1.2 volts or something like that.  There is protection built into them that depends on that ground wire in order to work.  Transient voltages are stray currents that may come into contact with one of the conductors coming from the module.  They could be anything from lightning to the static charge in your body.  I worked on this kind of stuff for years, and we had to use all sorts of grounding protection when anywhere near it.  We wore a wrist strap with a metal contact touching the skin, and had to clip it to a grounding post before touching the equipment.  The reason for this is the static electricity in your body could be upwards of 15,000 volts, and those little 1.2 volt components don't handle that very well.  The module you have is probably sealed in epoxy because of the harsh environment, which makes it impossible to repair.  Before you install the new module, check the ground wires attached to the housing of the Accuset unit, then check the ones that connect it to the mill itself.  ALL of it must be electrically connected so it is all at the same potential.  When you get the new module, read and heed any warnings on the package.  Some of them are probably not as silly as they appear.
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: Old Hilly on November 04, 2011, 03:50:11 AM
Dan, I had totally forgotten the epoxy "Potting". I would guess that even if the components were not "potted", all the IC chips would have had their ID's ground off anyway, just to make repair really dificult or better still, impossible.
Static and transients will kill almost anything, given half a chance. :'(
When installing the new box, read the instructions :P. At least TWICE!
Dennis.
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: LeeB on November 04, 2011, 09:52:55 AM
I would think that after 15 years of ownership, if you haven't taken a big repair hit so far, you are doing good. I had to replace one of the boards in mine once and fried the new one as soon as I powered it up. Wasn't quite $700, but it was a big chunk of change. Part of ownership. No different than having your tranny fail on your truck. New one may last forever or just a few miles.
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: sparks on November 04, 2011, 03:46:36 PM
Hi Guys,

Without getting too far down in the weeds, I would like to correct a couple of things on this thread.

The H-Bridge that is being talked about is protected from over-current and from transient voltage spikes, however, in some rare cases, the energy behind a transient produced in a system capable of running 450+ amp loads (hydraulic system) can be substantial and difficult to protect against. Large voltage spikes that have the potential to do damage are generally caused by loose connections in the high-current circuits, (i.e. hydraulics, battery, alternator, fuse block, etc.), but even then, it has to be just the right frequency with enough amplitude and energy behind it to do damage. A friend of mine recently had to replace his modem and network card on his computer due to transient voltage spikes, he runs a UPS and a surge protector and it still made its way into the system and fried the boards. We have thousands of these systems running in hundreds of countries with great success and although it is unfortunate when one does fail, overall, it is a solid performer.

Also, in response to a few comments about serviceability:

The H-bridge is a custom bridge developed by Wood-Mizer, unfortunately, you will not be able to find the bridge at Radio Shack...if we could have bought it from them to do what we needed it to, then we would have. Old Hilly, we do not sand or grind the labels off anything to make it unserviceable.

DanG, your pretty much spot on with what you said, however, static electricity from your body won't be an issue with the sawmills unless you are removing the actual circuit boards from their enclosures and handling them directly, then, by all means, static electricity becomes an issue and precautions should be taken.

Hope this helps.

Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: geraldhale on November 06, 2011, 01:31:53 AM
 Thanks for the replies
the mill I have now I got new in 05 and yes I went threw the problem with accuset and replaced it with accuset2 in 08, it does help to know that there are a large number of mills out there with this same equipment and its not a wide spreed problem and wood mizer has told me there is a 90 warenty, I think I will replace this board and maybe several other parts that may be a problem area, I think Id feel better doing a little over kill with as many new parts to provide me piece of mind as my walet can afford! lol  It may have to wait untill after taxes and the holidays but that will give me a good excuse to run my big mill some? that is if I can get three or four of my buddies to come help me run it??? lol it will saw 10 times what the wood mizer will in a day but sometimes it can be 10 times the pain in the butt!! lol buddy help on weekends can get exspensive ;D
One of the things I like best about my wood mizer is the way I have mine sit up I can load several logs on the log deck and saw 1000+ feet all by myself with the off belt and roll case droping the lumber onto a green chain, eat lunch and then stack it by myself!!!! maybe Im becoming a grumpy old man but I like not having to count on other people as much at this point in my life :D
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: woodmills1 on November 06, 2011, 07:23:04 PM
my 70 is original accuset 1  still workin though it does forget and need reboot once in awhile
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: spencerhenry on December 09, 2011, 11:24:49 AM
in a previous response to this post, i said that ever since i got accuset 2 i have had no problems. well today i am pretty *pithed off. was milling yesterday and i had a couple small issues with the mill like the water hose breaking in half, the water jug cracking, running out of fuel, and the occasional failure of the mill to head to go to the proper position.

well today i uncovered the mill, checked the oil, for the first time ever had to add half a quart. it was cold but not too cold, even so the i had to make 3 attempts to get it to start. it would fire right away, but then die. while letting the engine warm up, i tensioned the blade, started looking at what i needed to get done, and was going to add some windshield washer to the cracked tank that leaks it all out over night. then i go back to the control panel and it says "ERROR" and some other stuff. head wont go up or down. i call woodmizer and am instructed on how to check the problem. in the past the error would always go away on its own. i had contacted woodmizer in the past and they said to check connections, there were never any issues that i found with any of the connections. but this time the error stays on the screen. i get the frozen shut door open and after checking some voltages, he tells me that the 'h' bridge is bad, but that i also probably have a bad fuse block and that that is probably what killed the $700 'h' bridge. i believe he told me that the fuse block was another $150. i took the block out, and sure enough one of the bolts is black.
my mill is almost 8 years old, but has only 1100 hours on it. it has had 3 batteries, 2 alternators, a couple hydraulic hoses, couple hydraulic fuses, blade guide rollers, 3 accuset 1 modules, 2 switches that control the hydraulic pump, 2 of the big fuses on the fuse block, 2 water jet hoses, 2 sets of water jet nozzles, and probably some other parts. the accuset 2 was replaced for free, i was told that there were several customers that had had numerous failures of the accuset 1 that were given the upgrade. i was told then that the problem was voltage issues. in the past i have taken all of the battery cables off, emery clothed them clean, reassembled with dielectric grease and tightened them. now here i am with a mill that doesnt work, wont work until i spend almost $1000, and then i can replace parts in the snow in temperatures that if am lucky will be in the 20's. BUT after all that, i have no assurance that the 'h' bridge wont crap out again. yesterday when i ran the mill out of fuel i had to crank it some while also flipping the litter "manual pump" to get it to start again, the guy at woodmizer told me that cranking longer than 10 seconds could have had an effect on the 'h' bridge.

so let me ask others out there, does your diesel engine that cant be plugged in take more than 10 seconds to start when it is below zero? if cranking more than 10 seconds can kill a $700 part that is not related to the motor, what a piece of crap!

so much for getting this milling job done while the weather is decent and daytime highs are expected to hit the 20's.

i need to charge more for my service, and mill products. the 'h' bridge replacement has cost me about $1.5 per hour of mill run time. add in the other parts and i could make more money working at walmart, and then i wouldnt have to roll around in the snow and cold to make nothing.
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on December 09, 2011, 02:20:42 PM
Sorry to hear.  Overall things will work out.   Make sure your glow plug relay is working (12 V at the glow plug strip).  If not get a new one mine was $137.   ;D
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: Magic Smoke on December 09, 2011, 07:59:20 PM
spencerhenry,
You were told wrong, the solenoid that powers up the H-Bridge is turned on via the ACC terminal of the key switch, this terminal is not energized during a crank sequence... meaning the bridge isn't even powered up during cranking. Melt your starter down till your hearts content, it's not going to hurt the bridge.
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: customsawyer on December 11, 2011, 07:47:07 PM
Spencerhenry if you are checking the oil for the first time there might be other things that you have over looked. ;D I am not trying to berate you but there is a certain amount of maintenance that must be done with any piece of equipment. I check the oil on my machines every time I crank them and several other things. 
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: ladylake on December 11, 2011, 07:55:59 PM

This was the first time oil was added, not checked. Steve
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: boman1 on December 11, 2011, 11:03:20 PM
Been there done all that on my 05 super....Main thing....make sure and upgrade to the latest fuse block will save you some headaches. Good luck....
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: spencerhenry on December 11, 2011, 11:38:28 PM
not sure if that was a joke or an insult, but i check oil, and water EVERY day i use the mill. and i dont crank and crank and crank, but 10 seconds is NOT very long if the temperature is well below zero, glow plugs or not.
i dont think i have a diesel that will start with less than  10 seconds of cranking, not the skidder with no glow plugs, the mill with glow plugs, '05 6 liter ford with glow plugs, skidsteer with glow plugs, or the fuso with glow plugs that dont work. some just flat dont start unless plugged in, but the mill is no where near electrical power and has no block heater.

when it is really cold, it will fire pretty quick but needs a few seconds of "assistance" from the starter to stay running.

i have several machines, and have sold several off, never had to replace a starter yet, except for ones that were bad when i bought the machine.
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: customsawyer on December 12, 2011, 04:16:52 AM
It was a miss understanding.
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: boman1 on December 12, 2011, 08:08:47 AM
I have the Cat diesel....had to replace all of the glow plugs at one point. Check them.....mine starts good down to the 20's when they are good.
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: Magic Smoke on December 12, 2011, 09:15:44 AM
Sorry spencerhenry,
I wasn't trying to imply that you were cranking too long, your right, 10 secs. is not too long, I just meant that you could crank the engine until you destroyed the starter and it wouldn't have any effect on the H-Bridge.
As far as the cold start, you might try manually holding the throttle wide open while cranking, the Cat's will usually start a lot better if you do. Also, the o-rings on the fuel tank fittings can sometimes leak very slightly causing the fuel system to leak down overnight and make the engine have to "prime" itself in the morning. Make sure you are using the right oil weight in the engine too (probably 10w30 in the winter), if you are using something heavier the oil will be real "thick" causing the governor to be slow to respond.
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: ladylake on December 13, 2011, 05:48:47 AM

You might want to put a squeeze bulb like on a boat motor  or a electric fuel pump on if you think your having leak down problems. Had a truck like that , I had to pump the primer every morniing or crank a long time. That turned out to be something in the fuel filter, when I put a new one on the problem went away. I have MM tractor that wounldn't start after running out of fuel, put a primer bulb inline and no problems now.    Steve
Title: Re: lt40 super, Super expensive part! lol
Post by: Bandmill Bandit on January 31, 2020, 03:48:18 PM
Grounding Can be an issue on any equipment and there was service bulletin rom Kohler Re grounding issues with their motors on saw mills BUT it applies in general.
 
I love my 07  Wood Mizer BUT the one a system that could be a bit more robust out of the factory is the electrical conductors and grounding system. 

I have upgraded ALL of my conductors to High grade copper conductors that are at least 1 gauge size larger than the OEM wire AND I have added 2 extra Ground cables that are coated with dielectric grease BEFORE they are connected to the ground terminals. The info is in the sawmill mods section.