Fuel for saws

[charles mann]

Is anyone having issues running this blended ethanol gas? iv noticed in my weed whackers, a brand new fwd/rev tine tiller (got 2 garden plantings out of it before it crapped out) and i think the cause of my jonesred 2166 crapping out, that its causing issues in the fuel delivery system. My 2166 will start up, run for about 15-20 min, same for my stihl kombi weed whacker, and after heating up, act up and start sputtering, as if running out of fuel or some other form of fuel starvation. I can however keep the trimmer, (99% of time) running, as long as i feather the throttle or keep it 1/2-3/4 throttle. But when i dies, starting it before it cools completely down, is out of the question. With my 2166, i can feather the throttle, or keep it medium idle and it will run for about 5 more min, and then it dies, and there is NO starting until it cools completely down. Its in the saw shop now, and haven't heard back from them yet, but they think the diaphragm in the carb took a crap, and i thought the same, so i told to just to order a new carb and install it. If that works, my trimmer will go in, then the tiller.

2yrs ago, the local stihl dealership (went with stihl, bc there is only 1 husq dealer/scv center in my area, and bout 5 stihl dealer/svc centers) had a valentines sale, and i picked up a 661 with a 36" bar for $1000. The stihl reps were there, and i asked about running 100LL av gas in it. The rep said yes, since 100LL was designed for and used in air cooler aircraft eninges. I asked for a letter of approval to run av gas, and the rep obliged my request. I don't use the saw, or any of my power tolls on an everyday, or even 3x a week avg. through out the year, and i have had ZERO issues. My cub cadet tiller is 2yrs old, and has been inoperable for 1.5 of those years, and for a yr now, my 2166, has been acting a fool. 

Before anyone says it, non-ethanol fuel in my area is as rare as hen's teeth, but the places i do see it while traveling, its more expensive than av gas. Which is why I have converted over to running ALL my air cooled gas engine on av gas. 

Just wanting to get a feel for what others have seen or had issues with.

Thanks in advance.

[tawilson]

There's a spark arrester in the muffler of my Stihl trimmers that has plugged up on me and caused issues. I have non ethanol gas right down the road and it's all I use in my small engines and it still has happened.

[Upstatewoodchuc]

One of the few things in upstate New York that we are fortunate about are Stewart's shops. Stewart's carries 91 octane ethanol free gas at all of their stations now and I mix it 32:1 with amsoil interceptor synthetic oil, this combo has made my dirt bikes, atv's and chainsaws live long happy lives.

[Southside]

When I tried running 100LL in my 660 she burned the jug, and the dealer had set the carb and recommend it. If your regular gas is sitting around in those engines for a month or better it could be ethanol related issues. Have you tried a stabalizer added to the gas?

[hedgerow]

We are lucky around here non ethanol gas is available but runs 25 to 30 cents higher. In all my small engines and old gas tractors I run non ethanol gas and have zero problems. I have fixed a lot of small engines and carbs on old tractors of people that run blended. If you keep the gas fresh it seems you can get by with the blend. I know several lawn services that run blended and get along fine. If with non ethanol gas if my chain saw gas is more than month old I dump it in my pickup and mix fresh saws seem to run better. Av gas is not easy to get around here and is very pricey. 

[Al_Smith]

Here I go being disagreeable again .Except for areas of Europe we don't have ethanol free gasoline .Unless of course you get  marine,racing or aviation fuel .Some feel they must ,some of us just deal with it .
Sure I can get any one of them.Race gas locally for about triple  the price. Aviation gas at the little airport 10 miles away .Marine gas at Lake Erie 90 miles away .It's a chainsaw,lawn mower,old tractor not a vintage Harley knuckle head  nor a 1963 Corvette or a 1927 Rolls Royce . ;D

[charles mann]

It's a chainsaw,lawn mower,old tractor not a vintage Harley knuckle head  nor a 1963 Corvette or a 1927 Rolls Royce . ;D

and you paid for a running chainsaw right? when you yank the cord, you expect it to start right? maybe not the first yank, but yanks within reason, and it start right? it may just be a saw or mower or whatever, but its a tool to me, and when i ned my tool, i need them to work. over $30,000 in hand tools, test tools, specialty tools, and guess what, they all work. to me, those vintage wheeled items are nothing more than a money pit. kinda like my wife. ;D didn't have issues 10 yrs ago with regular ole' gas. these dang hippies and their EPA gestapo goons have ruined small engines by implementing their corn gas. only good thing from corn, is liquor ;D, not gas, that is what cabbage is and red beans is for.  

[charles mann]

When I tried running 100LL in my 660 she burned the jug, and the dealer had set the carb and recommend it.

 Have you tried a stabalizer added to the gas?

did the shop warranty the parts/labor? might have been running to low a oil mixture. the rep said increase the oil ratio to a little over 32:1, instead of the 50:1 that was recommended for regular (ethanol or non) gas.
plus you have to high rev the engine and lean the fuel mix out to burn the build up off the plug, or it rough idle/run and will cause higher CH temps. i guess it could burn a jug out, given the right settings. 
naw,, never needed to run stabilizer before, but guess i should have. now with my miller bobcat, yes, i pour the recommended amount of stabil, and give it a touch more for safe measures. then i fire the welder up, running for 10min to ensure the fuel is at least to the carb and shut it down. i also run 100LL and since my lift pump is out, i installed a squeeze bulb to push fuel to carb, but i don't have any issues with it busting right off. it actually cranks easier now, than when i got it. 

[Southside]

I was so sick of dealing with that place I bought an after market kit and fixed it myself. Then I switched to Husky as the dealer about 30 minutes away is absolutely amazing.  I always run 32:1in all my saws, was told not to do so but I don't care, it works great and other than that one time I have never burned one up.

[HolmenTree]

Our local Shell station sells 92 octane  premium no ethonal which I use.
I'm looking at trying out this full synthetic mix oil for my saws. Heard lots of good reference to this stuff and it's cheaper by the ounce then Stihl Ultra to boot.

[charles mann]

I was so sick of dealing with that place I bought an after market kit and fixed it myself. Then I switched to Husky as the dealer about 30 minutes away is absolutely amazing.  I always run 32:1in all my saws, was told not to do so but I don't care, it works great and other than that one time I have never burned one up.

huh, not sure why it burned out, unless the soot build up was to much and finally the CHT got to great. Can these 661s with the M-tronic be adjusted manually? i might need to do a cleaning on mine, just in case, not that someone running the same blend burned their's up. Granted, yours could have been an isolated incident, but i dang sure odnt want to burn up a $1200 power head. 

Our local Shell station sells 92 octane  premium no ethonal which I use.
I'm looking at trying out this full synthetic mix oil for my saws. Heard lots of good reference to this stuff and it's cheaper by the ounce then Stihl Ultra to boot.

I may try something like that. I don't run my saw/s as much as i should since that isn't my profession. But i buy 5gal of av gas a time and transfer into a 1gal can and do my mix using a scaled mixing container. 
If you try that synthetic mix, can you make a post letting others know if it works or is a bust?

[Skeans1]

I remember from race bikes some mixes don't like AV gas and others don't play well with race gases, another thing is others such as castors which smell nice don't work great in cold weather.

[Southside]

A part of me wonders if the lead can lead to issues given how much the technology has changed from the days of all gas having lead. 

[Al_Smith]

It's a chainsaw,lawn mower,old tractor not a vintage Harley knuckle head  nor a 1963 Corvette or a 1927 Rolls Royce . ;D

it may just be a saw or mower or whatever, but its a tool to me, and when i ned my tool, i need them to work. over $30,000 in hand tools, test tools, specialty tools, and guess what, they all work. to me, those vintage wheeled items are nothing more than a money pit.   

Ahem! I hope you aren't suggesting my tools don't work because they do .Some people spend vast amounts of money on things and some have the ability to repair and maintain stuff in almost like new condition and I'm in the later group . 8)

[lxskllr]

Had an unusual experience recently. My Deere mower and Poulan saw have run alcohol almost exclusively in recent years. The Deere's old enough that it started on real gas, then went to alcohol whenever that switched over. Only had minor problems. The Deere needed raw gas in the carb to get it going in the spring, and the Poulan would run poorly if it didn't get used regularly, but would straighten out under heavy use.

I got a Stihl this early spring, and I didn't want to run alcohol in it at all, so I switched all of my small engines to pure gas. The Deere started acting erratically, and eventually quit running, and my Poulan quit idling. I was able to adjust the Poulan, but the Deere carcass is still in the drive. Coincidence? Dunno, but the timing was interesting.

My speculation is the real gas loosened some crud up in the Deere, and either plugged the fuel filter, or did something to the carb. The Poulan only needed an idle adjust, and the speed isn't jacked up or anything, It just changed. I don't have any theory on why that is.

[charles mann]

It's a chainsaw,lawn mower,old tractor not a vintage Harley knuckle head  nor a 1963 Corvette or a 1927 Rolls Royce . ;D

it may just be a saw or mower or whatever, but its a tool to me, and when i ned my tool, i need them to work. over $30,000 in hand tools, test tools, specialty tools, and guess what, they all work. to me, those vintage wheeled items are nothing more than a money pit.  

Ahem! I hope you aren't suggesting my tools don't work because they do .Some people spend vast amounts of money on things and some have the ability to repair and maintain stuff in almost like new condition and I'm in the later group . 8)

No sir, by no means is that what i was getting at. Just like those vintage autos, we spend 100s to 1000s of $ on a tool/machine and dont expect break downs in less than a yr, or even 2 yrs. but unlike snapon or mac or matco, if it breaks, there is no life time warrenty and it costs us more in the long run. 

[John Mc]

Except for areas of Europe we don't have ethanol free gasoline .Unless of course you get marine,racing or aviation fuel

Not sure what you mean by this, Al. There are plenty of places in the US that carry non-ethanol gas, and they are not just marinas, racing outlets, or airports. I've probably got half a dozen regular gas stations within a 30 minute drive of me that carry it, and have verified that it is in fact ethanol free (testing for alcohol in gas is very simple, requires no special equipment or chemicals).

[John Mc]

I'm a pilot, and have easy access to 100LL Avgas, since I run it in my Cessna 172 aircraft. I also know a bit about lead, having worked in a manufacturing facility for a number of years that had many thousands of pounds of molten lead in our heat-treating process. We had to go through repeated safety/health training on dealing with lead. We required those working in that department to shower and change clothes before going home - for their own safety, and because we didn't want them bringing lead residue home to their kids and their developing brains. The tetraethyl lead in leaded gas is a neurotoxin. In th eyears following the ban of leaded automotive fuels, there was a measurable increase in the average IQ of US residents.

I will NEVER run 100LL in my chainsaws. I have no desire to inhale the lead-laced exhaust that would be coming out of my chainsaw a couple of feet from my face. I'm fortunate to have non-ethanol auto fuel conveniently available. If I did not, I'd just run E10 gas and make sure I didn;t leave it sitting in my saw when not in use.

[lxskllr]

Except for areas of Europe we don't have ethanol free gasoline .Unless of course you get marine,racing or aviation fuel

Not sure what you mean by this, Al. There are plenty of places in the US that carry non-ethanol gas, and they are not just marinas, racing outlets, or airports. I've probably got half a dozen regular gas stations within a 30 minute drive of me that carry it, and have verified that it is in fact ethanol free (testing for alcohol in gas is very simple, requires no special equipment or chemicals).

It's my understanding it isn't in MD at all with a possible exception of the eastern shore. I'm lucky to not live terribly far from PA, so there's some socialism free fuel available. While it's doable, it's not exactly convenient.

[John Mc]

Try pure-gas.org to find stations that sell ethanol-free gas in your area. You can also add stations you find to the list.

[Al_Smith]

I did check "pure gas" and the closest to me,as I've said is lake Erie . I don't get too excited about gasoline .Only once on a souped up Harley I did run "cam II" on occasion .Even though I've got a few hopped up chainsaws I'm not really sure how much difference it is running hi test as  to regular  gas .
Some say detonation problem but a few of mine have 23 thou piston to head deck clearance and I've never experienced it on regular gasoline .I dunno maybe we have better gas in Ohio :D --and I'm not talking about the reaction of pickled eggs and beer .

[lxskllr]

Try pure-gas.org to find stations that sell ethanol-free gas in your area. You can also add stations you find to the list.

Mostly eastern shore, a couple in the mountains, and looks like a couple outliers for the race market. Nothing closer than the PA station I go to, but that's a good resource. I wish it were more widely available. I don't mind paying a bit more, but I'd prefer not driving ~25 miles to do so  :^/

[Maine372]

do you always buy gas at the same station? i have one station locally that i have learned to avoid when buying small engine fuel, and another that i have never had a problem with.

i only run 93 octane, and i pump a gallon into the vehicle before i start filling fuel cans to purge the hose.

is there any water, residue, contamination in your fuel cans?

just throwing out some ideas....

[gspren]

Since the new Royal Farms convenience store near me has non ethanol I buy it, but for several years I bought the 10% ethanol and added either Sta-Bil or Startron and didn't have a problem even with 6+ month old gas.

[charles mann]

do you always buy gas at the same station? i have one station locally that i have learned to avoid when buying small engine fuel, and another that i have never had a problem with.

i only run 93 octane, and i pump a gallon into the vehicle before i start filling fuel cans to purge the hose.

is there any water, residue, contamination in your fuel cans?

just throwing out some ideas....

id rather kill my saw or weed whacker before killing a $12,000 cummins and voiding my warranty due to neglect. 

i use 5gal racing cans for my gas, and 5gal jerry cans for diesel. i rinse my gas cans out with denatured alcohol and let them air out 30min and then put the cap back on before going to the airport, and before the airport, the local fuel stop, which has has 2-3 fuel drops a day during the summer months, and 1-2 during winter. 

[charles mann]

I will NEVER run 100LL in my chainsaws. I have no desire to inhale the lead-laced exhaust that would be coming out of my chainsaw a couple of feet from my face. I'm fortunate to have non-ethanol auto fuel conveniently available. If I did not, I'd just run E10 gas and make sure I didn;t leave it sitting in my saw when not in use.

i can understand that. i do smell a difference in the exhaust when running LL, compared to reg gas. 
From what iv been told by several small eng svc centers, leaving the fuel in the lines and carb, and more so, leaving the lines and carb empty is bad on these small unit. it may be just their way of trying to sell me on buying their ethanol free premix, @ $12 a qt. during firewood season, i could buy a new power head for the amount i would spend buying their premix.
  

[John Mc]

it may be just their way of trying to sell me on buying their ethanol free premix, @ $12 a qt. during firewood season, i could buy a new power head for the amount i would spend buying their premix.

When I buy a new piece of equipment, I'll buy a can or two of premix, if it qualifies me for an extended warranty (if I recall, Husqvarna does that - or at least they did when I bought a weed whacker a while ago). Other than that, I never use the stuff. As you noted, it's just too DanG expensive.

[Al_Smith]

I think that use of recommended fuels and oils are more hype and hoopla .I did however buy one brand new weed wacker of the popular orange and white color scheme that came with a couple of bottles of "ultra" which I did use but mixed at 32 to 1 instead of 50 to 1 .I even buy more every so often .It does okay,can't complain .BTW that weed wacker after 4-5 years has never missed a beat .Never failed to start ,never had the carb settings touched since it came from the dealer .Very unusual for me .

[sawguy21]

it may be just their way of trying to sell me on buying their ethanol free premix, @ $12 a qt. during firewood season, i could buy a new power head for the amount i would spend buying their premix.

When I buy a new piece of equipment, I'll buy a can or two of premix, if it qualifies me for an extended warranty (if I recall, Husqvarna does that - or at least they did when I bought a weed whacker a while ago). Other than that, I never use the stuff. As you noted, it's just too DanG expensive.

If the equipment is being used on a regular basis I agree but my saws only get fired occasionally so premix makes sense. I need to see if they will start then switch over.

[John Mc]

If the equipment is being used on a regular basis I agree but my saws only get fired occasionally so premix makes sense.

Yeah, that premix is supposed to have a longer shelf life.

[charles mann]

Al_Smith i concur. Power tool have a tendency to start giving me crap 3-4 yrs after owning it. But my kombi power head is 6yrs old and it has just started acting a fool. Iv only been running av gas for the past 2yrs. Iv replaced the primer bulb 4x and the pick up tube in the tank 1x and regapped the plug 2x. 
The kombi i had prior to this 1 lasted 2yrs and it just crapped out. I had extended warranty on it, took it in for not cracking. Spark was getting to plug and it smelled as if it was getting fuel but no combustion. 
They sent it off and stihl said all repairs were out of pocket bc there was chocolate milk in the valve cover, even though he gasket was not torn and the factory tq stripe was still on the mount screw. 
I bought a new head and put the old 1 in my shed, in hopes of fixing it 1 day, but 6yrs later and its still sitting

[Al_Smith]

I've never had good luck with so called extended warranties .It' s mostly ink on paper .
As far as "pre mix" ,whatever floats your boat .I'm too much old school to even consider it .Now the mix oil from the famous orange and white saws,it's good oil but I won't mix it 50 to one .My saws my rules . 8)

[John Mc]

I've never had good luck with so called extended warranties .It' s mostly ink on paper .
As far as "pre mix" ,whatever floats your boat .I'm too much old school to even consider it .Now the mix oil from the famous orange and white saws,it's good oil but I won't mix it 50 to one .My saws my rules . 8)

I've never outright bought an extended warranty, but I need fuel anyway, and I like the metal bottles they come in: I refill them and carry one in a backpack or stuff it in a pocket when I'm working with a chainsaw or my brush cutter in an area where I don't have my tractor or other vehicle. The price is way too much of a rip-off for me to buy it on a regular basis.

[teakwood]

I mix my fuel 1:50 with stihl oil since 20 years and have never ever changed a piston/cylinder in any 2 stroke engine.  And we run them hard and in very hot temperatures with high humidity. 

[John Mc]

Oh no! Could @Al_Smith have started another round of The Great Oil Mix Debate? I'd like to think it was inadvertent, but knowing Al ...

[Al_Smith]

Nay I say . ;) However in the back of my mind,however small it is I some how knew it would fire up a rebuttal .I'll just sit on the sidelines and giggle once it gets started .You watch if it goes on long enough somebody will suggest 90 WT gear lube and Coleman lantern fluid .The internet,thank you Al Gore  :D

[Southside]

I mix my fuel 1:50 with stihl oil since 20 years and have never ever changed a piston/cylinder in any 2 stroke engine.  And we run them hard and in very hot temperatures with high humidity.

Yes teakwood - but you are the well deserved Timbersports Champ, (which I think is awesome) and have the evidence to back it up!!! Unlike us mere mortals!!   :D

[realzed]

My own take on this 'fuel thing' led me to initially try and get the best and highest octane pump gas around here which I'm told is supposed to be Shell Ultra (91 octane) which also isn't supposed to contain any ethanol.. I mix it 50/50 with 100 LL av gas and use the Stihl Ultra oil at a 40:1 mixture.  I always used the same oil at a 50:1 ratio previously and no av gas in my previous MS290 saw - but I feel my new 261CM probably deserves the extra bit of oomph the av gas might bring since the octane ratings at the pump seem to be getting lower all of the time around here, and all of my trimmers (hedge & grass) other saws and even lawn mowers, seem to run happier and somewhat cooler on it.
Maybe I'm fooling myself in believing it all is a better set up - but it helps me feel better about it - so for that reason it's worth the extra trouble and bit of expense associated with doing it!  

[Al_Smith]

Well it isn't like a chainsaw,even a big one is going to inhale gasoline like a turbo charged over bored,stroked  Ford 460 marine engine running full throttle .That thing could suck down more gas in one hour  than a Stihl 290 could in three years to the average user .

[lxskllr]

Someone [liked] a post in this thread, so I checked it out; well, just cause, and it seems like a good place to put a question I've been thinking of recently. I have one station nearby where I can get alcohol free fuel. If that disappeared, I'd be SOL. I was wondering if a decent strategy would be to cut with corn gas, then for the last fill or two, running premix in the machine. That would save some money using corn gas, and minimize the alcohol in the system with the premix flush.

Sound reasonable? That's more work and thinking than I want to put into running an engine, but I don't want corn gas in my good machines.

[hedgerow]

Its a good question. I am seeing a lot more of this pre mixed gas oil on the shelf's of the big box stores in my area I wonder how much they are selling. Many stations around here have non corn gas so I guess I won't have to buy the premixed. I am not running corn gas in my old tractors and small engines and I do raise corn for a living. 

[ManjiSann]

I only have one station near me with ethanol free gas. It's 88 octane and I've started using it in my small engines. So far it's worked well for me but wish I could find it in a slightly higher octane.

Brandon

[BandsawBen]

Consider yourselves lucky. I have to go to the local airport to get ethanol free fuel. They have 91 and 100 octane. Both at a premium price.  The 100 is low leaded fuel,smells like race fuel.

[lxskllr]

I should probably checkout the local airport to see what they have. That would be convenient. It's only a couple miles away. My sole source for corn free pump fuel is 25 miles away. It's 30¢/G more cause PA, and you get the corn free penalty added to that. I only use it for my small engines, and 15G will last about a year, so it isn't an egregious burden, but it sure would be nice if they sold it at the gas stations I could walk to.

[donbj]

"I only have one station near me with ethanol free gas. It's 88 octane and I've started using it in my small engines. So far it's worked well for me but wish I could find it in a slightly higher octane."

The 88 is fine. Your biggest benefit is the ethanol free aspect

[Al_Smith]

A couple of years ago I made a jaunt to Denver Col .Over 1000 miles on  I 80 and past a million orange barrels it seems .At one gas stop that had about 40 pumps and not paying attention I started pumping race gas into my car until I noticed what I was doing .Geeze it was about a buck fifty higher   I shut it off after about 5 gallons needless to say .The car didn't run any better nor any worse just cost me more .Big ado over nothing .

[thecfarm]

I just use the highest grade of gas that I can get at my local station. But 5 gallons does not last me long if I am really cutting. I use the highest grade I can get in all my small engines.The only thing that I have really noticed a difference on is my Colorado Chevy pickup. When I first got it,I was running regular,did not run the best,so I went to high test. Did better,at times,but might even stall at a stop sign. :  This gas station was changing the help at lunch times,takes about 10 minutes to take numbers down from the pumps and all the other stuff they do. Well being on lunch,I really did not want to spend 10 minutes there,so I went to another gas station. Got high test and what a difference how the truck ran. I thought it was just running good for a while. Than back to the other one, Started to ran rough again. So back to the one that I felt it ran better on that gas,and it did. Back to the bad station to make sure,started running rough again.  I do not go there to get my gas anymore.

[Al_Smith]

A lot of people are brand loyal about a lot of things.Ford /Chevy -Stihl/Husqvarna -John-Deere /IH,Case .Gasoline Shell/ Marathon etc .etc .
Many are unaware the only difference in gasoline is the additives and the color of the dye. You have no idea if the gasoline is actually made by the name on the pump at  the gas station or not .
Now the ethanol thing was actually in use long before it was mandated and nobody was the wiser .Years ago Sohio ,standard oil of Ohio sold "winter blend Boron with so called ice guard which was just ethanol .It worked no fuel line freeze up which was common place .Ohio you know, used to get real cold out in winter .I haven't seen 20 below in decades and don't miss it either .The very thought of it makes me freeze up .

[ManjiSann]

"I only have one station near me with ethanol free gas. It's 88 octane and I've started using it in my small engines. So far it's worked well for me but wish I could find it in a slightly higher octane."

The 88 is fine. Your biggest benefit is the ethanol free aspect

The ethanol free benefit was my understanding as well.  I always read about using higher octanes for this or that but I am no chemist and don't understand it all. 


I was reading in the Husky 390 manual that if one is limbing a lot and the saw will be at high revs for a long time that a higher octane is better to help cool the engine. Anyone have any real world experience with this? There's a little airport near me so if this is the case I may swing by and see if they have any of the higher octane ethanol free gas. Otherwise the only other option I can think of is a mild woodsport to ensure the exhaust is escaping as freely as possible, again having read that can go a long ways to helping keep the engine cool.


Al, chills my blood just thinking about 20 below. I'm not sure I've ever experience it but it sure doesn't sound fun. 


Brandon 

[Mad Professor]

ManjiSann

Have a look here:  Puregas Utah

Lots of stations with 88 octane, looks like a drive to get 91 octane for yourself. How far off is Herber?