Thinking about an 090 again

[Lorenzo]

I have a small collection of Stihl, only 9 saws but have always been intrigued by the 090.

It would just be a toy and conversation piece, Probably foolish I know buy I have done that before.

Is the 090 an over rated old boat anchor or is it the power house as legend has it?

Before I plop down way too much money for one, what are some of your thoughts on this model Stihl.

They sure haven't gotten any cheaper in the last several years so they must be holding their value for the most part.

[HolmenTree]

I can reassure you it won't wear out any time soon.
Back in the day I had the pleasure of ordering 2 brand new 090AV's from my Stihl dealer about 10 years apart.
First one was on display at Stihl Canada head office with a 5 foot chrome bar on it. I didn't get the chrome bar.

They are all metal, very well balanced with a 4 foot b/c and they look good.
A look that has been around for the last 60 years.
They are a true legend and the only regret is I never owned or used a 090 Gear drive.


 

[outinthewood]

If you include my Contra "S" I have 4 of them, an early AV , late AV and a "G". I used to cut a good bit of hardwood with an 090 but after finding ported saws they tend to sit in the corner scowling at me ! Used the late AV a few months ago with 60" bar on a large root plate. Kick back isn't much of a problem but be prepared for the painful pushback ! I've been caught a couple of times and it felt like I had broken my leg, with all that torque they push back out of the cut and it's just not nice !! The G is a very nice saw to run, mine came with 60" bar solid nose with 1/2 chain. Of course you could look for one of the ten two piece head 150cc factory saws made for the Nth American market as an experiment, Masdens still have one I think ? Also used in go karts and microlights. The factory backed the kart racing. Another interesting one to look for would be one of the rare factory 137cc Gs as I'm sure you know the G is in fact 107cc but some were done to order for US customers.

[Lorenzo]

Is it actually possible to build one using new old stock OEM parts these days ?

[longtime lurker]

Meh why would ya?

If you want a big old banger get a MS 720 out of South Africa. That way you get all the style of a big old banger but its a "new, backed with a stihl factory warranty your dealer dont want to know about" big old banger. And I suspect its going to be far more collectable in a couple years because I think this will be the last evolution of Stihl's big old bangers. Even in Africa the certification process around things like AV mounts and chain brakes is getting some scrutiny now.

The thing with the 090 is theres a whole lot of hype about most powerful saw in the world. Except it aint, it never was.

... a modern MS 880 has 0.1 more HP albeit less displacement
... a Disston DA211 has about 0.4 more HP and runs at 180cc so if you wanna talk torque. It'll swing 9/16" chain around a 6 or 8 foot bar and thats some serious power.
... a Solo Super Rex had about 140cc or so which again is bigger than the 090.

The real magic of the 090/070 series was that compared with anything else on the market in that size class at that time, they were so danG reliable and easy to live with.

The 090's are collectable though, but I'd still put money on that MS720   (070) being more collectable and worth more in 15 years time. It'll be a limited edition dontcha know.

[Hooterspfld]

Nothing to add here except, I really want to run one at least once.... Just to see what it's like.

[teakwood]

The thing with the 090 is theres a whole lot of hype about most powerful saw in the world. Except it aint, it never was.

I totally agree with lurker here, the 088 i owned maybe had a little bit less torque but more hp, way higher rpms, was also durable and weights have of the 090. why do you want a outdated boat ancor if they are better, modern saws available?

[sawguy21]

Because they are manly! :D :D Anybody that can handle one deserves some respect. Seriously, while not the biggest and baddest there ever was they are the most plentiful of that class in North America. Disstons and Solos are scarce as hen's teeth and we won't find an MS720. Speaking of 070's I had a customer looking for a new one aboout 15 years ago. You want a WHAT?? He was from Malaysia, unknown to me they were still being built for that market but saws were so expensive it was cheaper to buy one here and take it with him.

[HolmenTree]

Tighten up the 090's governor spring an extra 3 cogs on its adjustment and it has all kinds of extra rpm and extra h.p.
The 088/880 doesn't stand a chance in real big wood. Some goes for the Distons and Solo :D

Get a 090 gear drive with the 137cc P/C and now we got the world's most powerful chainsaw with factory parts.
We can even go higher , how about sticking the Stihl factory 10 cubic inch (160cc ) top end  on that puppy. :D

[HolmenTree]

But in all seriousness any claims of the 090 being the most powerful chainsaw would have been what's sold  in modern times.

At one time chainsaw manufacturers used motorcycle engines to power their 2 man saws.
Take for example Danarm built a 2 man saw before WWll with a 250cc Villiers motorcycle engine built in England and Canada. They went as high as 350cc Villiers for the old growth in B.C.

In Scandinavia a company built a 2 man chainsaw with a 1934 Harley Davidson 1200cc 28 h.p. engine on a Dolmar Type C transmission and bar/chain.
Here's a great video of 2 old Swedes felling a tree with it . Looks like the old scratcher chain needed a little more filing. :D

Harley / Dolmar chainsaw - Tree felling with Björn & Herje - YouTube

[teakwood]

Here's a great video of 2 old Swedes felling a tree with it

And of course without any ear protection, although those old guys surely are already deaf from using such beasts their whole life.

[teakwood]

The 088/880 doesn't stand a chance in real big wood

That's probably true but you have to look at the usefulness these days. Tossing a 088 with the mill around in our temperatures and tropical jungle gets old real fast and back then i was 15 years younger!! i just imagine doing that with a 090.  Maybe the old timers were more man back then, but they also died at 45! 

the national electric company still uses such relics as the 076. what a choke, poor guys, and without any serious chainsaw training or leg protection.

[longtime lurker]

I'm not dead yet thanks!

Yanno its not just about power. I swung an 090 for a couple years on an as required basis, and ran 076's for far too long. And I've played with the MS880 a little though not a lot - declining log size means I'm happy enough to lug a 395 about all day, and I've still got my big old bangers in the shed if I need to run a real big bar.

The power to weight of the new saws is fantastic and I'm so thankful for it. But I can say with a whole lot of certainty based on my experience that when you've got 4 foot of bar swinging on the dogs in a tropical hardwood and the chain has lost its edge - the silica thing or just plain old being hard with a capital H - that 076 is a better saw then the MS880, and the 090 beats them both hands down. It's about the torque curve: the longer piston stroke saws will lug down a whole lot better then the new high revving ones, it's like comparing a 700 Hp Ferrari engine with a 500 Hp Mack.

And thats why you can still buy a brand new MS 720 or 070 is some parts of the world... they might lack the user friendly but the things were designed to carry 404 chain in 140 drive link lengths and they do it extremely well.

[teakwood]

I'm not dead yet thanks

I didn't want to offend anyone, sorry. I referred to the times when logging changed from axes to the first chainsaw monsters without any comfort to use them. The time when men were men and died early.

[longtime lurker]

Yeah well on a shelf in the shed beside all the other relics is my grandfathers Danarm Tornado. (Still runs too, or was a couple years back anyway.) It was the 2nd one man chainsaw sold in these parts, I think he got it about 1950 or 51. Bar is about 30" long. Chain looks like it belongs on a bicycle, but with teeth - it's 3/4 pitch.

He used to carry that into the jungle: I'd hate to carry it across the lawn. And where I got a couple plastic wedges and an aluminium one stuffed in my pockets he would have carried a bag of steel ones and a 12lb sledge for driving them. And fuel and oil in steel cans, water botttle probably steel too. Same sized axe anyway but it all adds up. 

I think you had to swing an axe for 30 years to work up to carrying them... 

[DelawhereJoe]

So if they can get 35hp from a stock Yamaha yz125 why are the chainsaws hp so low and won't it make sense to start using that tech into mills and everything else too ? The ms 880 is 121cc 8.6hp the husq 2120 is 118cc 8.31 hp why is there such a big gap between the yz 125cc and the 2 saws ?

[mike_belben]

Reed valves and expansion chamber pipes

[longtime lurker]

Heres an interesting thing, its the Stihl South Africa website.

Petrol Chainsaws for Forestry | STIHL

Do a comparison on the 720/780/880. I've never heard of a 780 before but it looks like a derated 880. Or maybe its a gear drive for longer bars. Anyone know?

But that 720 spec... yanno an 090G was actually a gear drive on an 070 rather then being built on the 090/090AV engine ... something about needing to drop chain speed for the longer bars the G was suitable for from memory. I wonder if it is a rebadged 090G, because I know a couple years ago I could have got either a MS720 or 070 ex PNG and they were then both current model saws at that time. 

[HolmenTree]

So if they can get 35hp from a stock Yamaha yz125 why are the chainsaws hp so low and won't it make sense to start using that tech into mills and everything else too ? The ms 880 is 121cc 8.6hp the husq 2120 is 118cc 8.31 hp why is there such a big gap between the yz 125cc and the 2 saws ?

Working on my 125cc bikesaw at the moment.
Mines got over 40 h.p. and the reason is huge porting that can handle a 42mm snowmobile carb and a huge full circle crankshaft that can handle the power.
But don't expect longevity on the single thin piston ring. The ring has to be changed out every few hours of race time.

[HolmenTree]

The 088/880 doesn't stand a chance in real big wood

Maybe the old timers were more man back then, but they also died at 45!

the national electric company still uses such relics as the 076. what a choke, poor guys, and without any serious chainsaw training or leg protection.

This one is for is for teakwood,
Speaking of big saws listen to this old timer :D

[snowstorm]

So if they can get 35hp from a stock Yamaha yz125 why are the chainsaws hp so low and won't it make sense to start using that tech into mills and everything else too ? The ms 880 is 121cc 8.6hp the husq 2120 is 118cc 8.31 hp why is there such a big gap between the yz 125cc and the 2 saws ?

Working on my 125cc bikesaw at the moment.
Mines got over 40 h.p. and the reason is huge porting that can a 42mm snowmobile carb and a huge full circle crankshaft that can handle the power. But don't expect longevity.

looks like a tilison hd carb mounted upside down. almost ever sled since the 80's have used mukini either round or flat slide. the down side would be no fuel pump and being a float bowl carb they dont run tipped on there side

[HolmenTree]

So if they can get 35hp from a stock Yamaha yz125 why are the chainsaws hp so low and won't it make sense to start using that tech into mills and everything else too ? The ms 880 is 121cc 8.6hp the husq 2120 is 118cc 8.31 hp why is there such a big gap between the yz 125cc and the 2 saws ?

Working on my 125cc bikesaw at the moment.
Mines got over 40 h.p. and the reason is huge porting that can a 42mm snowmobile carb and a huge full circle crankshaft that can handle the power. But don't expect longevity.

looks like a tilison hd carb mounted upside down. almost ever sled since the 80's have used mukini either round or flat slide. the down side would be no fuel pump and being a float bowl carb they dont run tipped on there side

My 42mm Tilly HD is a good one. Just like a oversized Stihl 090 HL carb with H & L screws and diaphragms.

On the snowmobile engine the HD was mounted with the diaphragm side down. But for racing like on my bikesaw they get better fuel supply with the diaphragm side up.
Old trick I learned along time ago, back in the day racing sleds probably mounted them upside down too.

[cbla]

The 088/880 doesn't stand a chance in real big wood

Maybe the old timers were more man back then, but they also died at 45!

the national electric company still uses such relics as the 076. what a choke, poor guys, and without any serious chainsaw training or leg protection.

This one is for is for teakwood,
Speaking of big saws listen to this old timer :D





Lol. Should also say put down the Video Games!

[HolmenTree]

The 088/880 doesn't stand a chance in real big wood

That's probably true but you have to look at the usefulness these days. Tossing a 088 with the mill around in our temperatures and tropical jungle gets old real fast and back then i was 15 years younger!! i just imagine doing that with a 090. 

Actually the 090 with 15 more cc displacement,  oversized out board clutch, carb open to the outside of the air box and cast aluminium muffler would handle the tropical jungle heat alot better then the 880. Plus be easier milling for the operator