Timber theft

[ohsoloco]

This article is on the front page of today's paper....thought some of you might find it interesting.

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/dailytimes/news/nation/5894640.htm

[biziedizie]

Now there's an idea! Think I might have to look into the jail time that's involved. :P
  Let's see I could make some very good coin and retire or if I get caught I could have a nice vacation and have 3 cooked meals a day.
  Anyone know about how to get into this business? :D :D

     Steve

[Ron Wenrich]

I have a hard time believing the guy was taking old growth cedar away in a pickup truck.  Seems to me that he would have a hard time moving that material around without having some heavy duty equipment.

I talked to a consultant from Oregon many years ago that said the thieves would run their chainsaw exhaust through a hose and put the end in a bucket of water.  Acted as a silencer.  

The bulk of the timber thefts I've seen are boundary disputes.  But, we did have a guy who would drive around with a log truck and pick nice trees next to the road, especially on state property.  They could never catch him, and the worst that he could get would be a stumpage price.

Some of these guys figure that the worst that could happen is they would have to pay for stumpage.  In the long run, their stumpage costs would be below the norm, even if they got caught every once in awhile.

But, with the increase in stumpage value, you are no longer looking at petty theft.  Jail time and equipment confiscation should really slow things down.

[Sawyerfortyish]

I don't know who wrote this but one cedar tree 5,000$ come on And they put it in a pickup and drove away? I don't agree with the punishment for timber theft they should cut off  that guys arm with a chainsaw that'll slow him down. I know you can make honest boundry line mistakes I've seen it happen. Sometimes landowners don't know where the line is I have went to the expense of hiring a surveyer to mark out lines. But when someone out right knows there stealing they should Him

[Tillaway]

I read the same article too.  Those big cedar are cut into shake bolts, so its no problem to load them into a pickup like firewood.  They can get over $1000 a cord for it so a tree being worth $5000 is possible if the whole thing is utilized.  This is of course about the top market price for the best quality.  This by no means new.  Its been going on since day one.  Some of the tricks used out here to steal logs.

On Forest Service Sales simply send the first load out every morning without a load ticket.  You get a whole truck load for free.  This was such a problem that the FS has adopted lump sum sales only now.  That and bribing the log scaler.  The scalers would way over estimate defect if you paid them off.

On private sales you have to watch and make sure the truck actually takes the whole load to the buyer.  Some outfits would load the good grade logs on the top of the load and simply pull into a mill and have the top couple good logs taken off the truck.  The land owners never knew the difference.

[Frank_Pender]

Yep, a few years ago people were hiking into some areas of Clatsop County, which is an area around the mouth of the Columbia River, ant spotting downed old growth Western Red Cedar and sening a baloon up in the air so that a chopper could come in close and remove the sawn and split bolts.
  Here in Oregon, it is tripple damages for the taking of timber.  

[DKinWA]

Tillaway was right when he said they were cutting the cedar into shake bolts and then hauling them out by pickup truck.  There are a few shake mills around here that will buy the wood no questions asked. From what I understand (law enforcement friends) a lot of this goes on to support drug habitats and most of those that are arrested have a slew of warrants for other charges.  I remember the first time he was caught several locals wrote letters to the editor in our local paper in support of the guy.  They went on about how the guy was just trying to survive.  The last time he was arrested the only letters I remember were readers wanting the prosecutor to throw the book at him.

[Jeff]

Welcome there DKinWA

[shopteacher]

There was a story on the local news last week about an outfit of private loggers who were contracting with the land owners to cut a small group of tree and would go in and just devistate the area taking everything.  They wouldn't pay the land owner anything and here in SW   Pa. they weren't even going after them.  I forget the reason given for not prosecuting them, but it was lame.  The guy had gotten $80,000 for the logs taken off one landowner.  West Virginia finially arrested him, but now he's out on bond.  Wish I had a copy of the story to post, it's amazing the rights and the laws that exist for the criminals.   >:(

[ohsoloco]

A friend of mine had purchased about 300 acres of land a few years back here in Centre county.  He wanted to have some of the land logged off, so he just had loggers come over and give him "quotes."  Not bothering with a forester, he let the guy that gave the highest bid do the logging.  He was originally promised about $75,000.  By the time the logger got out of there (and telling my friend that every truckload he took out of there was junk) he had about $5,000 in his pocket  :(

[Bibbyman]

Another effect of timber theft is that as much good timber passes it's prim and falls to rot because some landowners don't trust any logger.

The land will eventually change hands by sale or by inheritance and the first thing to go is the timber - either to development or to the logger so those who inherited it can pay the taxes or settle with co-inheritors.

[ohsoloco]

A friend's grandfather has a few hundred acres of mountain ground that he refuses to let anyone log, "I'll let my kids deal with it" he said to me.  I guess there are a lot of mature oaks on the land (I haven't seen it)...at least he has the trees that get blown over sawn into lumber (he's a woodworker).  

[Ron Wenrich]

A landowner getting screwed due to ignorance is a little different then wholesale theft.  People get scammed all the time.  

A lot of these guys work on either a handshake or a very flimsy contract.  But, if there is a contract, then the logger may very well get off.  

I know of timber scalers that don't give full scale on the trees.  Some of these are consultants that use a lower scale to inflate price/Mbf.  It is part of their sales pitch to get more work.  

I really don't blame any landowner for being suspicious of anyone wanting to buy their timber.  There are so many horror stories, that landowners have been turned off of selling timber or managing their woodlot.  

Landowners should have some cash in hand before logging begins.  Timber should be prepaid, not pay as you feel like it.  There should always be a contract.  If you're getting paid by the load, then you better hire someone to oversee the job.

[DKinWA]

Thank you Jeff B.  I'm probably the odd ball in the group since I'm actually a biologist looking at changing careers.  I'm getting tired of working for the state and I'm thinking about turning my part time excavation business into a full time job.  I actually started lurking here since I'd like to get into forest road maintenance and construction and this seemed like a good site with lots of information.  Sorry about the off topic part so back to the topic.

I work with a lot of small forest landowners and I always recommend they look around for a good forester to help them with the harvest.  I've heard a lot of horror stories and nothing makes me madder than seeing an older couple in their "golden years" getting ripped off by a thief pretending to be a logger!

One more thing.  On the left side of my computer screen there is a message that says, "Hey, DKinWA, you have 1 message, 1 is new" now at the possibility of sounding like an idiot, how do I open it?

[ohsoloco]

DKinWA, just put your cursor on the "1 message" and click on it to go to your inbox  

You're worried about getting off topic...have you read many of these threads?  :D

[DKinWA]

Got it.  Thanks!

[Bibbyman]

I had a topic one time but my dowg eat it!  :D

(Maybe he thought it was GRITS!)

[Scott_R]

I knew it wouldn't take long to get off topic and talking about food. Scott

[Mark M]

Hey - why do they call it grits? Is it gritty? I've never had any and don't know what it is exactly but I saw some on tv and it looked kinda like malt-o-meal. Someone please edumacate me. Maybe someone could tell me what a a shitlin is, or maybe that chitlin? My dad used to talk about them, I'll bet Nobel knows.

Mark

[DKinWA]

I think I'm going to like this forum!   Speaking of food, I just had my first taste (for this year anyway) of bbq'd salmon yesterday.  Hmmmmmm gooooood.

Sorry, I couldn't resist rubbing it in!

[DanG]

Mark, you have asked a magical question, so, at the risk of thiefing a thread about thiefing, I'll try to explain.........

In the old days, folks would take their corn to a grist mill to have it made into corn meal...poor folks flour. A portion of the corn would escape from the grindstone before it was totally crushed, and was left as residue of the process. The millers would sometimes give this gritty substance to the poorest of the poor, since it had no real value. These poor folks would boil it in a pot, with some water, to make a kind of "mush" that would fill their bellies and warm their innards. The coarse granules turn soft, and swell up with the moisture, until they become as palatable as the original corn kernals. They have a mild flavor that is easily overshadowed by butter, eggs, or redeye gravy and salt, but have a pleasant, corn flavor, if tasted plain.
We, the poor folks of the South, grew up enjoying them, as we are descended from those "poorest of the poor" that originally used them for sustenance. The "smart" ones have mostly died off from lack of common sense, leaving this paradise to us dumbasses. ;D

[Mark M]

Thanks DanG for splaining that to me. I saw them at the McDonald's when I was in Indiana this winter.

Oh yeah, where are my manners - Welcome DKinWA. I know a little bit about biology too. Remind me to tell you about hoop snakes someday.

Mark

[Tillaway]

Hi DK,
I have been through Elma a bunch on my way over the the Harbor.  I have worked around there and up on the Quinault Nation.  What sort of biologist are ya?  The scaley kind or a feather and fur variety?

[Fla._Deadheader]

Hey DK, are ya fixin them there Salamons on a cedar board??  I got a customer, here in Florady that I'm sellin 3" X 6" X 3/16" boards to, fer .20 each!!  Now, let's see, how much a bdft is that??  Arky, you're the cedar bdft man ??

[Bro. Noble]

Mark,

When you render lard,  the stuff floating on top is 'chitlins'.  You put it in cornbread for the best results.  It would be good mixed in grits too or even in your fried mush.

Noble