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swing barrel fix?

Started by krusty, July 02, 2018, 05:53:21 PM

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krusty

Getting ready for firewood cutting this winter :)

On my old what I believe to be a Barko 80 log loader with swing barrels, the internal seals are shot from what I can tell. Has power to turn l & r but wont stay put if I leave the valve in center. Could be the valve body I guess too, but the rest of the cylinders on it are fine.

The barrels are screw in, and just wondering  what would be the best tool to turn them off? It looks well oiled at the threads from years of minor fluid leaks. Giant pipe wrench? Other ideas?

BargeMonkey

Large chain wrench would be my first choice. 

Don P

Which brings up, what is a quick way to tell whether its a valve or cylinder that's leaking down?

Grandpa

Quote from: Don P on July 03, 2018, 06:07:38 AM
Which brings up, what is a quick way to tell whether its a valve or cylinder that's leaking down?


A swing barrel is a one way cylinder, if the packing is leaking, oil will run out the open end.

mike_belben

Praise The Lord

krusty

not sure where I can get a chain wrench that is big and heavy enough. Have a 24" but I consider it to be light duty. Did nothing on the cylinder. Thoughts about welding a 3" (head size) nut onto the end of the cylinder with the hose off? I have a socket that size with a 1" breaker bar.....

UN Hooker

Check if that has a clamp bolt on the mast were the barrel threads in. If'n I member right, the Prentice I had, had a bolt that clamped the threads tight to the barrel once you assembled it.
          UN
Retired Toolmaker/Moldmaker
C-4 & C5D TF - 5500 Iron Mule - Restored 4400 Ford Ind. FEL ex Backhoe w/custom built boom w/Valby 360* grapple w/18' reach - 920 Cat w/bucket & forks w/clamp - Peterson 10" WPF - LT-15 - Cooks Catsclaw & Dual tooth setter - many Husky saws

2308500

i have actually welded a piece of 3/4 x 3 flat bar about 6 feet long, right to the end cap.  worked awesome as a breaker bar and once turning free you just cut it off.  If i remember correctly, ours had a clamp setup near the threaded end.

krusty

I emailed Barko and then spoke on the phone. They were super helpful. Not 100% sure mine is a Barko but there is a nut that I can actually undo a bit that locks things together. Inside looks like a simple fix once I get it apart. Stay tuned......will try to hammer that nut loose before I go build myself a wrench to turn it.

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mike_belben

Reckon if you put the hot wrench to it for a bit thatll turn via chisel and hammer if youve got the room.  Big channel locks?
Praise The Lord

krusty

I was planning on tearing into this tomorrow aft but now that I think about it, I am going to do the control valve first. I assumed there was a seal on the end of the tube itself, but the piston bolts directly on to the end of the rack. If it was leaking at the piston seals like I thought it was, there would be fluid all over the ground. It is sloppy as heck. The whole rack is not a sealed mechanism. Good news is the rack and associated turning gear look to be in excellent shape.

First will be the valve and then will go from there. Will try and make a before and after video!

Don P

I'm wearing my "Slow Children" T shirt here.
So as a basic order of troubleshooting, if a double acting cylinder is drifting, unless there is fluid coming out of the cylinder or other external leak, check the valves first?

krusty

Don how do I order one of these shirts???

Grandpa

Never saw one like that. My Barko 80 swing barrel had an acme thread and a clamp ring.

krusty

It may not be a Barko for real but close I figure. The first couple years of a Barko 80 had a threaded ring much like the nut in my photo. No hex to grip on to but also no bolt to release it. According to their parts diagram anyways. Everything else looks the same.

Am eating some humbleberry pie for dessert. Took the spool valve apart and there were no orings left at all on the shaft.

Don P

My big sister always threatened to get me one of those shirts :)

Don't stop taking pictures, I think there's 7 slices of that pie in my future ;D

mike_belben

Praise The Lord

mike_belben

Quote from: Don P on July 06, 2018, 07:12:50 PM

So as a basic order of troubleshooting, if a double acting cylinder is drifting, unless there is fluid coming out of the cylinder or other external leak, check the valves first?
Yes sir. 
Praise The Lord

Grandpa

That does look like Barko orange under that yellow paint.

I think there was also a loader called Husky or Husky Brute that looked a lot like a Barko. I've never actually seen one, only on the interweb.

Grandpa

Quote from: mike_belben on July 06, 2018, 10:32:34 PM
Quote from: Don P on July 06, 2018, 07:12:50 PM

So as a basic order of troubleshooting, if a double acting cylinder is drifting, unless there is fluid coming out of the cylinder or other external leak, check the valves first?
Yes sir.
Mike, I would disagree with your answer, if a double acting cylinder is drifting the oil should return to the tank, as per the link you posted above.

A swing barrel is a single acting cylinder and if the seals on the piston leak, the oil should run out the open end.

Thanks for putting up that link, I found it quite interesting.


krusty

There was another explanation I found helpful on cylinder drift. If you put your arm in a full bucket of water, it would overflow based on the volume of your arm. Same with drift, if there is no fluid coming out the end of the cylinder somewhere you can see, it is coming out the valve body internally to the opposite side or tank. That applies to single or double acting. For the rod to move in or out at all the fluid needs to go somewhere. Either it leaks at the cylinder or at the valve. The bucket analogy finally made it click for me.

My valve bank is a Gresen 25P based on the casting numbers I found and logo after a nice spray of brake fluid to uncake sections of it. Turns out these shafts are machined to fit and dont have seals to fix them unfortunately. So if I really want to fix it I need a new section in my valve bank. Mine did not look overly worn I thought but I never measured it with a micrometer either. I am going to put a 1/2" hydraulic valve inline to the cylinder tomorrow to get a definitive answer in my mind. The valve bank part is not cheap. The 1/2" valves are relatively cheap and can seal the fluid to the cylinder.

offsite photo removed by admin, refer to posting rules

Skeans1

Is this actually using cylinders or is it a rack setup?

Grandpa

Quote from: Skeans1 on July 07, 2018, 08:50:30 PM
Is this actually using cylinders or is it a rack setup?
It is a rack gear with a piston on each end that a swing barrel goes over.


Don P

My leaky valves on the old Prentice are also Parker Gresen 25P's. Same setup on the swing, a rack with cylinders on each side. From what I've found so far the 25P's are obsolete and unavailable. That's as far as I've gotten with it other than being tempted to try 90 weight in it, I'm going to school on you.

mike_belben

Look to see that the detenting is still acurate and keeping each land located exactly where it should.  

Also pull the relief cartridge for that section and the overall relief to check for any signs of bypassing there.  Metal chip, grit, o ring chunk etc will all hold them open. 
Praise The Lord

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