Make it work

[Rolo446]

I have been reading and reading on this forum an I have a question I have not seen or can't find. I would love to get me the portable sawmill for personal an a little side money, prolly enough to make payments an maintenance for my machine an a lil extra would be great. Can it be done or is it not gonna happen. I appreciate all the feedback an all the advice I can get. I am close to Fayetteville North Carolina

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Research and find out how many sawmills are around you.
Those mills will be your competition.

How easy can you get logs whether you buy them or get them from a tree service free.

It will take a little while to get established and get your name out there but you can do it.

[PAmizerman]

Short answer. 
Yes it can be done. And I did it.

[Ianab]

You can make a mill work as a "hobby business" fairly easily, because you don't have to earn a living, just coming close to turning a profit is good enough. It's also possible to base a full time business around it, but that's a lot more work (and risk) to get it all set up, and your productivity up to where you are making a living. 

What you have to think about is what your business model is going to be? 

Saw others logs for them? That can work, and a smaller cheaper mill would let you do jobs that larger operators can't be bothered with. 

Source logs, saw them and sell boards? How are you going to source logs (you have trees / mate who runs a tree service etc), and how are you going to market the end product?

Value add? Rather than simply selling boards, you build things with them, and sell those. Often it's easier to sell things like picnic tables / toy boxes etc, than rough sawn boards. That's how I make some pocket money with my mill. Cedar / cypress outdoor stuff is popular because it's durable without chemical treatment, so local kindergartens like it for their outdoor play areas etc. 

[kelLOGg]

Rolo, That's exactly what I do. You are welcome to pay a visit if you want to see my mill. Not for sale but if you are considering a Cook mill (or any other) you're welcome to drop by.

Bob

[Rolo446]

Ianab I was thinking about going to the customer an milling at there place or if they wanted bring them to me. I also can get logs from a local tree company an the power companies tree crews. I was also thinking about milling some salt treated and creosote poles that I can get for free from my work. Kellogg where is it you stay. I was thinking about a Wood Mizer lt40

[Mike W]

Rolo,

Pass on the Salt and Creosote poles, not worth the wear on your gear and especially your body.  Salt eats all things metal, just check out the underside of cars in cold climates where they salt roads.  Creosote  :, yea just need to stay clear of that in milling, just my opinion of course.

Best of luck and keep the posts coming as your plans develope

Mike

[Rolo446]

I talked to woodmizer rep an he was saying he thought the 35 with debarker would be good for me. If y'all don't mind what is about the going rate for portable service 

[Southside]

The 35 is an excellent mill, easy to learn on yet enough options to grow with. Rate depends on a lot of factors. First you need to figure out what it costs you to operate and decide if that leaves room for profit. 

Also, second on the idea of running from treated wood. I get calls all the time asking if I will saw it, many times it has been by someone who tried using a chainsaw mill or other option and gave up. I won't touch them. 

[seaview]

Your concept is pretty darn close to what I have been doing with my daughter and son in law on a stationary LT15 Wide electric. I have been cutting for their farm projects and other orders have just showed up! I am considering a LT35HD gas after one year of grunt work rolling those logs around and up and down! But maybe the LT40Wide diesel? which is overkill for what I do but may eliminate a further upgrade down the road... this is the advice I have received--- go big; you will never be disappointed!? But then again, big mill begets big $$ investment, with big responsibilities! I have already bought a Bobcat and grapple and am looking at blade sharpening equipment! $$$

But I certainly like the LT35HD gas and it helps solve one very big portable saw milling problem; cuts less lumber per hour so you're less likely to run out of places to store that cut lumber and people to take it off your hands...!

Yup- I vote for the Woodmizer LT35HD Gas! Good luck!

We get big logs on the West Coast of Canada; Western Red Cedar! 
(clean off that mud and dirt mister!)

[scsmith42]

Rolo, I'm located about an hour from Fayetteville.  We rarely do mobile milling (but will if the job is large enough) so you're welcome to it.

My advice to you is as follows.

1 - buy enough mill.  For sure get one with hydraulics.  Woodmizer makes an outstanding mill for mobile milling; the setup time is very quick and you can't beat their customer support.  Joe at Woodmizer in Albemarl NC (they may have just moved to a new town) is a great resource and honest businessman too.  An LT40H is probably the most common portable sawmill in the US.

2 - Charge enough for what you're doing.  The biggest mistake that I see new folks making when they start milling is that they don't charge enough for their work.  Then, in a few years they are out of business because they don't have any more money to lose.  Don't try to compete price wise with the BORG's - you will lose.  Instead know that you're offering a service that they don't, and that is the opportunity for a customer to treecycle.

3 - Study the archives on the FF.  Best source of milling information that you will ever have.

4 - Read Tom the Sawyer's website.  He is a member here and there is a lot of great advice on his website, including insightful pricing information.  tomthesawyer.net

Best of success to you.

Scott

[WV Sawmiller]

ROLO,

   It can work. I assume you are talking to Jim Whitley in Ablermarle. I bought my mill from him as closest WM rep after his son Tyler showed me how they worked and answered my questions. They are great people as all of the WM reps I have met or talked to. 

   I know you lost a lot of trees to hurricanes and floods last year. Uprooted trees will be viable a while longer but fully downed softwood may already be largely beyond salvage. What equipment do you have to work with to move logs and lumber? 

   I do mobile milling here in WV and some people bring me logs for small orders and I salvage some off my property. I am probably the Hobby Business Ian talks about and not dependent on my sawing for a living but at worst it is a cost neutral hobby paying for itself and keeping me active. You can open my website under my profile on the left to see my pricing and policies/procedures. I saw lumber for folks, sell a little salvaged lumber and sell a few rough wood products. You may also check the WM site under services and see if any of the Pro-Sawyers listed for NC are close to you. You might go watch them and learn. They could list you as a demo for them and if you do buy a mill they would even get WM credit for parts, blades or sharpening or such so a win-win for both of you. Lots of us like to talk and show off our mills so I bet you can find someone close who is willing to demo, let you run the mill under supervision and teach you some tricks of the trade. Good luck.

[Magicman]

Darrel's Sawmilling Story in Sawmills and Milling

The above is a post that I made in another topic yesterday.  Certainly not "Sawmilling 101" but maybe you can glean something helpful from it.  Also scroll up to Darrel's OP above it which should be required reading for a potential sawyer.

[E-Tex]

Rolo.....yes it can work.

PM sent.

[Rolo446]

I just recently found a 40 super down from my house that a older gentleman has, so I stopped by to ask about it an he told me to come by an he would learn me the ropes. I cant hardly wait for it to dry up so he can learn me some tricks of the trade. I will definitely read on all the places that yall have shared with me as I sit in the house for the next week with my 1st lil girl... while she sleeps of course

[WV Sawmiller]

Rolo,

  Congratulations. Learn all you can from him. Warning - starting with a super hydraulic is going to make it hard to back up to something slower and less efficient. :D Is he just going to show you the ropes or is he interested in selling his mill? Is he looking for a full/part time helper or someone to mentor? You may be fixing to back into something real good. If you build the right relationship you might be able to rent the mill or work up some kind of partnership arrangement with profit or lumber sharing with him with him providing the major equipment and you providing the labor and marketing/job sourcing and such. The opportunities sound significant. I've got my fingers crossed on your behalf.

[Rolo446]

He is just gonna show me the ropes but I did tell him I would love to help him anytime he run it. I don't think he runs it to much because of no help an I'm sure being 76 don't help much either. His wife told me that he would be glad to talk to me about it an that I might be able to buy it. I have my fingers crossed 

[Rolo446]

Another question how do i know if there is a high enough demand in my area to be worth buying a mill? I have been looking at the mills around me and can't find many but the ones I have found charge from 25 to 75 a hr how do I know what to charge to be competitive.

[Mike W]

Rolo,

Hard to answer that specifically, you mention some mills within the area, have you visited them?  Think it worthy to make a day of stopping by some of these local mills, what they are running, what they produce in a days work, etc.  Talk to them and ask a lot of questions on how they charge, by the hour, BF, shares etc.  Then sit down and compare that to what type of mill you will be running i.e. fully hydrolic -vs- manual, what type of help the others have for off bearing, stacking, marketing, hauling and such.  Factor in all your expenses, insurance, gas, blades, depreciation, wear, maintenance and such.  Are you thinking possibly mobile service?  What are the costs for moving, setting up and returning your mill to its resting spot, if mobile look into inland marine insurance to cover loss while transporting.  What do you think is a fair wage while getting everything dialed in?  obviously that will change as your experience and knowledge increases as with your production of high quality lumber, not just sticks of wood to turn into fancy firewood chunks.  Again hard to answer, too many variables in there to just give a fixed number.  Region is a big factor, species and market demand a big factor, storage of milled material in wait for the "just right customer" is a big factor, are you going to need to purchase the logs and cost to get them to the mill site, then milled then stacked then marketed, and finally sold and off with the next happy customer, again a factor in the equation.  Best of luck, with enough grit, experience, and tenacity, you can "make it work" 

[Rolo446]

I am wanting to do the mobile service an I also know a couple different tree crews an a full time circle mill that told me he mostly did pine an always had some ol hardwood he didn't feel like was worth messing with,so I was hoping to have some logs to saw up at home. I have talked to one guy an he was telling me he only had 320 hrs on his in 3 years an he would sell it  to me, that kinda made me wonder if it was a good move for me or not

[WV Sawmiller]

   You will see a lot of that. People buy a mill then find out stacking lumber and moving slabs and rolling logs and such is hard work and they let it sit or in some cases they have a specific project such as building a house or barn or cabin or such and the saw that much then it sits idle. If it has been properly maintained and not abused it could be a good deal. Good luck. 

[Rolo446]

How do I find out how much of a demand for portable sawmilling there is in my area before I step out an purchase a sawmill

[OffGrid973]

My two cents as I started with a hobby mill to make my barn. Not sure why it was on the bucket list but glad it was.  

Bought LT-10 manual mill 3k, started off rolling it in and out of garage and setting up rails for the weekend.

Few years later you are "the sawmill guy" and you need to turn away jobs if you are kind, honest and willing to help out people looking for alternatives to high priced wood suppliers.   

Then when you realize you made enough connections for raw materials, can honestly admit you are making a profit on your hobby (include basic costs gas, blades, whoops, and I should have done x) and enough to keep buying toys to move, fix, check and sell logs...then buy something On Wheels and with Hydrolics.

Good luck, and no you don't need a monster to cut logs, it's just much easier from what I see and drool over daily on this forum.

If money is not a show stopper I would not go manual, it's a humbling experience. Unless you need to save a few $$$ for your Dan G trailer, or umbrella for your mill seat

[Tom the Sawyer]

Rolo446,

In reference to your question in #21, although it was mentioned in your original post, it would help if you would go to your profile and add information like your location. :P 

If you are considering offering a service in your area, the first step would be to survey your area to see if someone is already providing that service.  Determine what your "area" would cover (10 mile radius, or 100 miles).  Will you be mobile, or stationary, or both? Will your focus be on construction lumber, cabinet/furniture lumber, etc.,?  Are those services/products available in your area?  :-\

There are probably some Forum members in near Fayetteville and, even if they don't provide milling services for hire, they may know of other sawmills in the area.  Just because you may not have seen them doesn't mean they aren't out there.  Check with your state Forestry department, and your regional forester.  

The presence of other providers in your area should not discourage you, it can help steer you towards a successful business plan.  Don't fall into the pit of "the guy down the road charges X, I'll charge less to get some business".  Accurately determining your costs to operate, and fair compensation for your work, have more to do with what you should charge than what someone else charges. (a topic worth a search through the archives)

Realize that you probably can't do it cheaper than everyone else (and stay in business, or enjoy being in business), and you probably can't do it better than everybody else.  In my opinion, most people seeking sawmilling services, want good quality lumber from their logs, and want to be charged and treated fairly.  After a period of time, and lots of experience, you may find a way to do it cheaper, or better.  Repeat clients will realize those changes, but only if you did a good job for them the first time (or else they wouldn't come back).  It may be possible to justify being the most expensive sawyer in the area, there is no way to justify being the worst.   ;)