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E-CLASSIC 2400 Solenoid "Chattering"

Started by nengle, December 02, 2011, 09:37:35 AM

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nengle

Newbie here, I just purchased my 2400 and got it running at the beginning of November. Just last night I have noticed that the solenoid for the low secondary air tube is just opening and closing on its own. After a little more investigation it only seems to do this when the boiler is in idle or when the reaction chamber temp is below 550. Once it gets above 550 air starts going a different direction and it stops the opening and closing. It will be fine through the high burn cycle but as soon as it's up to temp and goes to a low burn and then to idle it starts opening and closing. Also when I open the door to add wood it also stops, and as soon as I close the door it starts up again, at first being worse making the "chattering sound" then going to a more consistent open...close...open....close...etc. What I've done so far is got a new solenoid ordered. But my question at this point is my controller telling the solenoid to do that, since it stops during the other phases of burns  ???. Just searching for any ideas or suggestions. Thanks in advance for any help....

Dean186

Some of your symptoms are easily explained as normal operation.  Some of the other symptoms may not be normal.

I have an addition question for clarification.  Solenoid chatter is sometimes common with solenoids, but they remain energized during the "chatter".  So, the question is, does the solenoid remain energized and it just makes a chattering noise?  Or, is the solenoid just opening and closing at what seems to be random modes of operation? 

Dean186

I also wanted to add, that IMO, a new solenoid will most likely not fix your symptoms.    However, depending on the answers to the above questions, a realignment of the solenoid and how it mates to the mechanical, may fix the symptoms.   If one were to install a new solenoid, then this alignment may be corrected, and it would appear that a new solenoid fixed the problem.  Make sense? 

These things are always hard to diagnose via forum back and forth.  Have you called your dealer?

nengle

We checked with a volt meter last night and when the soleniod opens it is energized and shows a voltage, then when it closes it is not energized.

At first i thought that it was just random but after some careful watching the times it seems to happen is right after closing the door after a fill up and it will chatter and then go to a constant open and close sequence. It will then continue with that sequence until the reaction temp is 550 as soon as it hits 550 it stops and won't start again until after the high burn  and the boiler gets up to temp. Once it is up to temp the solenid will start the open and close sequence again even while its in idle and will continue until the reaction chamber temp is up to 550. That is why i think it might be the controller, or even the door switch causing whatever sends power to that soleniod.

I have talked to the dealer he said that he thought it was hanging because it was getting pinched and i should try spraying it with some wd40 or something like that so I did with no luck...and that is when he ordered the new soleniod, but after another talk today he was going to call central boiler and see what could be making it happen.

Here is a link of a video i took...the video is sideways...uploaded from my smartphone...but when the video was taken I was completely up to temp and all the solenoids should have been closed and the fan not running.
http://youtu.be/I_UVZ_UayoE

Dean186

Nengle,

A video and a complete description, wow.

We can agree that the solenoid is being energized when it shouldn't.

Ruling out unlikely causes, like a bad solid state power device that energizes the solenoid, like a triac since they almost always fail by an open or short, this takes us to a false trigger of the solid state control.  In my opinion, the most likely cause is a cold soldier joint on the control board, followed by a pinched wire or bad connection at some point.  This would be a starting point anyway.

Keep us posted, Dean

boilerman101

I agree with Dean. Sounds like a faulty Firestar controller that must be pulsing power to the solenoid when it should not be. I would contact your dealer.

nengle

Here is an update...and so far problem solved...after some back and forth with Central Boiler he asked me to check if I was getting voltage to the solenoid when the firestar controller was OFF, and if i was seeing anywhere between 65 and 75 volts then the triacs had burnt out and the controller needed replaced. I checked the voltage and I was getting a constant 71 volts with the firestar controller off. So a call to my dealer the next day to order the new controller, I went a picked up the part yesterday and installed it and there is no "chattering what-so-ever. The guy from CB also said to go ahead and still replace the solenoid because it probably wasn't good getting energized all the time. That's today's task.
Thanks again for all the responses

Dean186

Quote from: nengle on December 10, 2011, 10:14:49 AM
Here is an update...and so far problem solved...after some back and forth with Central Boiler he asked me to check if I was getting voltage to the solenoid when the firestar controller was OFF, and if i was seeing anywhere between 65 and 75 volts then the triacs had burnt out and the controller needed replaced. I checked the voltage and I was getting a constant 71 volts with the firestar controller off. So a call to my dealer the next day to order the new controller, I went a picked up the part yesterday and installed it and there is no "chattering what-so-ever. The guy from CB also said to go ahead and still replace the solenoid because it probably wasn't good getting energized all the time. That's today's task.
Thanks again for all the responses

Thanks for the update and glad it is resolved.

If they provide the solenoid under warranty, then, why not I suppose.   However, I wouldn't buy one to replace a good one, they are made to be energized.

mojamboo

We had a 2400 installed in late November this year and had the same issue. they replace the controller and found that the batch of boilers on their lot all had bad controllers. CB sent new ones and we haven't had any problems since.

whfh99

Would you happen to know what the MFG date is for these? I have a E-CLASSIC 2400 made in 10/10 that was chattering and since stopped. But not the solenoid is not going off at 550 degrees like it used. I haven't noticed it until know.

Other question to those with these units, am I the only one who finds it next to impossible to keep the air flow holes clear, especially the lower rear ones? Mine cake up almost daily despite my well seasoned wood, daily scraping with the 'tool' and adjusting the temp. differential to try and get longer burns. I have never had an outdoor wood boiler before so having nothing to compare it with.

Link Moser
New Hampshire

talldog

I have an E-classic 2300.Yes,my rear air holes are always oozing creosote.My wood is as well seasoned as possible without being kiln-dried.I try to poke those holes daily if possible.Not too big a deal once you get used to it.

boilerman101

whfh99, Are you saying one of your secondary solenoids never closes?
If not, I would contact your dealer. He may be able to determine if you have a solenoid or controller issue.
If stuck open, that extra air may cause extra creosote buildup.
I think all gassers create a lot more creosote in the fireboxes while they are not working very hard in the spring.
Keep scraping, poke holes open and keep ash bed shallow an pulled forward off the back wall. My lower set of holes in the back of my E2400 also drain which is what I think they are designed to do.

AsaG

Quote from: whfh99 on March 25, 2012, 06:18:47 PM
Would you happen to know what the MFG date is for these? I have a E-CLASSIC 2400 made in 10/10 that was chattering and since stopped. But not the solenoid is not going off at 550 degrees like it used. I haven't noticed it until know.

Other question to those with these units, am I the only one who finds it next to impossible to keep the air flow holes clear, especially the lower rear ones? Mine cake up almost daily despite my well seasoned wood, daily scraping with the 'tool' and adjusting the temp. differential to try and get longer burns. I have never had an outdoor wood boiler before so having nothing to compare it with.

Link Moser
New Hampshire

Is your solenoid staying energized or just staying stuck open?  CB sent me two close-off plate kits in the package of stuff to resolve another problem.  In these close-off plate kits are springs to pull the plates down against the inlets when the solenoid drops out.  The part number for the Primary Close-off kit is 2500012.  Unfortunately, the kit for the air-charge plates didn't have any paperwork in the bag. 

The other problem I had that may be of interest as well.  Have a look around your air-box.  If you see any evidence of condensation or other evidence of goo oozing through the foam in the lower reaches of the box, the ductwork between your air-charge inlets and air-charge tube may have rusted through.  The problem stems from the box being made in such a way to allow condensation to pool in the duct.  Since my 2400 has a build date of 10/10 as well, this may apply to yours too.  I posted a topic here with some photos of what I found although I don't recall if I made a post post-fix.  CB did make me a part and send everything required to make a repair but I had already made up my own.

As for the air holes, yea, the plug up from time to time.  It's not too big of a problem though.

Good luck!

holder73

NENGLE, did you have to pay for the new firestar controller or was it covered under warranty,  I had similar problem with chattering solenoid and my dealer is telling me the firestar controller isn't covered by warranty, I'm starting my 7th season with a 2012 Eclassic 1400

boilerman101

I believe CB's FireStar and Love controller warranties are for a period of 3 years. Probably pretty standard with most appliance/computer board warranties. My computer board went out on my Bosch dishwasher in 18 months and was told their warranty was only for 1 year. $250 bucks for a new board. Only paid $450 for the whole dishwasher!

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