The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

KNOW WHAT?
Between February 12, 2018 and June 18, 2018, this space displayed 13 Million, 871 Thousand and 87 times.



Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA


Council Tool

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat



Author Topic: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?  (Read 1624 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline cbay

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Age: 47
  • Location: sw mo.
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Several questions,   i'm a beekeeper and trying to grow my operation.   Need pine badly for equipment.   No pine around my area.   Got an Lt15 and want to save money milling my own boards.

If i can find a source for pine saw logs what is a fair price?    Found one about an hour away and he wants .50 / bf.   Don't think i want to swing that.   Another about 2 hours away quoted my .40 / bf.   That sounds a little better.   Was hoping to find in the 30ish range but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

Our trailer is a small 5x10 dump so it wouldnt be worth the expense to go all that way for such a small load, so my neighbor offered to haul a bigger load with his 16 ft trailer and truck.    Any idea if a 1000 bf would be too much for a 1/2 ton truck?

A real shame i can't use lumber from our 80 acres, but the oak, hickory and walnut is too heavy for bee hives.   Got sycamore  as well but was reading that they walk around too much by the time they dry.

Any suggestions around this whole topic would be greatly appreciated, and thank you in advance.

Regards,
Chris

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2388
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2018, 10:27:08 PM »
Saw some of your oak, sell the lumber, buy some finished pine lumber, tend bees, profit. 
Revelation 3:20

Offline Southside logger

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2277
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Sawing so I can afford to farm.
    • Share Post
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2018, 08:12:21 AM »
Mike has very good advice there. 1000 BF of SYP logs will weigh between 10,000 and 12,000 lbs, not including the trailer. Not something I would want to do with a half ton pickup that I owned. 
'92 Franklin 170 grapple skidder
'92 Franklin 5000 wheeled buncher
Wicked Awesome Basset Hound * 2
JD 490D with 4 roller FabTek processer / hydraulic hose breaker
Hot wife
Wood Mizer LT35HDG25, Re-saw attachment
Official Member of the BBFC

Offline Jeff

  • Fearless Leader
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 46490
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Harrison MI
  • Gender: Male
  • Proverbs 13:20
    • Share Post
    • THEE Forestry Forum
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2018, 08:22:07 AM »
That can't be right is it? 10 to 12 lbs a bf?  Oak is only 6
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life.

Offline Southside logger

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2277
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Sawing so I can afford to farm.
    • Share Post
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2018, 08:47:32 AM »
You are right Jeff - 5,000 to 6,000 lbs, per 1000 bft, it's that new math. 
'92 Franklin 170 grapple skidder
'92 Franklin 5000 wheeled buncher
Wicked Awesome Basset Hound * 2
JD 490D with 4 roller FabTek processer / hydraulic hose breaker
Hot wife
Wood Mizer LT35HDG25, Re-saw attachment
Official Member of the BBFC

Offline Pclem

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Fall Creek, Wisconsin
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2018, 08:56:42 AM »
I thought there was 2.2-2.5 cords in 1000 bf (of logs). That would be pushing 10-12k lbs wouldn't it? ( for oak ). Don't know about syp weight, but a little over 2 cords of logs? That's a big load
Dyna SC16. powersplit. supersplitter. firewood kilns.bobcat T190. ford 4000 with forwarding trailer. a bunch of saws, and a question on my sanity for walking away from a steady paycheck

Offline cbay

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Age: 47
  • Location: sw mo.
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2018, 09:08:11 AM »
Thanks,
Mike, we really don't want to lose oaks off the property if we can help it.    They are precious to us just to have them.   Otherwise that would make a lot of sense.   Maybe some hickory in the future though.
We will be sure and give thought on the weight and be safe about it.

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2388
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2018, 09:15:46 AM »
I had to go look at my slip from brown foreman.. I sold 1300 bf doyle of WO stave logs and weighed on their scale before and after at 23,500 of logs.  So 18lbs per bf.  Ive heard all oaks avg at 14-16 bf doyle.  
Revelation 3:20

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2388
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2018, 09:23:22 AM »
I do think itll be 10-12k and if its a 5 lug car trailers theres just not enough brakes, tire or axle to be certain you wont blow or bend something.  On a 3 axle id do it, if they work triaxles have great brakes.  A half ton truck will just skid in a panic stop with that much behind it.  Btdt.

If its close, flat and all backroads maybe.  If its far, hilly and interstate definitely bad.  If DOT sees 1000bf behind a half ton you are getting the portable scales and a roadside colonoscopy.  Maybe an impound or criminal charge.  Done that too.
Revelation 3:20

Online TKehl

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Sedalia, MO
  • Gender: Male
  • Certified Contrarian
    • Share Post
    • Kehlhof Ranch
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2018, 03:42:56 PM »
Why not use Cedar for bee equipment?

Light, rot resistant, and abundant in SW MO.
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.

Offline luvmexfood

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1268
  • Location: Southwest Virginia
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2018, 04:17:54 PM »
I have a half ton pickup. Use a flatbed trailer. No gooseneck. Just travel back roads except maybe a mile on fourlane to the log yard. Have hauled about 450 bd feet of poplar and it's about all I want back there. It's only about six miles and I crawl along. 
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

Offline luvmexfood

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1268
  • Location: Southwest Virginia
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2018, 04:53:33 PM »
My post may have been confusing. That is the largest load of one species. Could you possibly get someone to furnish the logs and saw on the shares.
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

Offline cbay

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Age: 47
  • Location: sw mo.
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2018, 09:40:02 PM »
Thanks guys,  wow i was underestimating the weight and glad i posted here about this.   Thank you all for the feedback.
May have to reconsider this and look for better ideas. 

TKehl, 
cedar is around here and have considered it even though it's more expensive.   Would definitely last longer.

luvmexfood,
not sure how that would work, maybe i can look into that...

Bottom line is i would like to have some good usable lumber here as inexpensive as possible.   Going to check with the local amish sawmill and see if he gets any poplar.   Talked to him once but only asked about pine - which he doesn't see.
He wants some pollination for his vegetable business so maybe something could come of it.


Offline Jeff

  • Fearless Leader
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 46490
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Harrison MI
  • Gender: Male
  • Proverbs 13:20
    • Share Post
    • THEE Forestry Forum
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2018, 05:05:42 AM »
That can't be right is it? 10 to 12 lbs a bf?  Oak is only 6
I was thinking you were talking lumber weight.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life.

Offline WDH

  • Forester
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27004
  • Age: 64
  • Location: Perry, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • April 1998 - August 2008
    • Share Post
    • hamsleyhardwood.com
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2018, 07:35:12 AM »
5 tons per MBF is about right for SYP logs depending on the size of the logs.  Really big logs will be more like 4 tons per MBF.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline BargeMonkey

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2505
  • Age: 34
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2018, 09:40:27 PM »
 I'm sending redpine to Deposit NY right now and its 5ton per mbdft conversion. 

 .50 cents would buy you gorgeous pine up here, its .30 cents delivered for redpine, white pine, hemlock. I've got a mountain of 8-10-12ft stuff I've been selling cheap on this job, the overseas market is all 13-6 19-6 right now. 

Offline YellowHammer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3044
  • Age: 53
  • Location: New Market, Alabama
  • Gender: Male
  • Always taking steps to save steps
    • Share Post
    • Hobby Hardwood Alabama
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2018, 11:46:43 PM »
Generally, as a rule of thumb when I'm hauling with my DOT registered and regulated diesel pickup and double axle, single wheel gooseneck, I try to cut the log loaders off at 1,000 bdft of hardwood, or 1,100 bdft of pine to get me to just under CDL weight of 26,000 lbs on the truckers scales.  Sometimes I'm a thousand lbs or so light, but better that than to come in heavy.  I'd never want to do that load in a half ton pickup.   

Sycamore flatsawn moves a lot, but for building bee boxes, I'd give it a try.  Quartersawing it to make it more stable would certainly work.  

Most properties have more than oak and hickory, what other species do you have?  I'd also seriously consider selective harvest on distressed trees or trimming back fencelines and property boundaries to scavenge usable timber.

How many bdft does a hive take?  Seems like it wouldn't take too many logs to make a lot of hives.
HobbyHardwoodAlabama.com

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2388
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2018, 12:27:16 PM »
I think.pine is $200/thou here, ive not cut a one.

Red maple is the pine of my life.  And i sure do try to smother it in the cradle.
Revelation 3:20

Offline cbay

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Age: 47
  • Location: sw mo.
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2018, 01:34:38 PM »
YellowHammer, 
it takes around 6 bf just for a hive body.   Then lids and bottom boards, inner covers...    So to make several hundred completed boxes takes up quite a bit of lumber.

Not real experienced with a tree or two out there, but think one that we have a few of is hackberry.   I was thinking they were a cottonwood but after looking online they look more like hackberry.     Don't know how they would work out.

Bargemonkey,
I would absolutely flip out to have pine delivered for anywhere in the .30 range.   Would be swimming in bee equipment come this winter.  Lol

It's early yet, but did find out that not allowing wood enough time to dry makes for some wonky hives. lol     So trying to get ahead of things for this winter.

Online TKehl

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Sedalia, MO
  • Gender: Male
  • Certified Contrarian
    • Share Post
    • Kehlhof Ranch
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2018, 02:03:30 PM »
Hackberry would be fine if quarter sawn.  It's related to elm and likes to twist if flat sawn.  Nice and light when dry, but rots quick.  I'd only use it someplace where it can shed water quickly, even then it's so so.

TKehl,  cedar is around here and have considered it even though it's more expensive.   Would definitely last longer.

I see milled cedar in your neck of the woods selling at $.60/bf on C-list.  

If that's too much, most farmers in the area will let you have all the cedar you can cut for free.  Sometimes I get paid to cut it...

It's early yet, but did find out that not allowing wood enough time to dry makes for some wonky hives.      So trying to get ahead of things for this winter.

Cedar.  One of the quickest drying and most forgiving woods out there.  

Just saying...  ;)  (No I'm not getting paid by the Cedar checkoff, but should be.   :D)
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.

Offline cbay

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Age: 47
  • Location: sw mo.
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2018, 10:00:00 PM »
I see milled cedar in your neck of the woods selling at $.60/bf on C-list.  

If that's too much, most farmers in the area will let you have all the cedar you can cut for free.  Sometimes I get paid to cut it...


Cedar.  One of the quickest drying and most forgiving woods out there.  

Just saying...  ;)  (No I'm not getting paid by the Cedar checkoff, but should be.   :D)
Thanks TKehl,
Ill keep looking.   Not seeing any yet that will get me 10" boards milled for a decent price.   Did chat with a guy on FB a month ago
that had a load of cedar and probably could have grabbed that for .60/bf.   
If it continues to be this difficult to get the pine then cedar is going to be the route i take.
Amazing how a 100 or so miles can change things so much.

Offline YellowHammer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3044
  • Age: 53
  • Location: New Market, Alabama
  • Gender: Male
  • Always taking steps to save steps
    • Share Post
    • Hobby Hardwood Alabama
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2018, 10:44:53 PM »
I had heard that bees don't like the aroma of cedar, at least that's what a commercial beekeeper buddy told me a few years back.

Hackeberry is as TKehl describes.  

Sounds like you are planning quite an expansion.  Sounds exciting.   
HobbyHardwoodAlabama.com

Online Just Right

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 43
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Barnesville, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
    • JustRightSawing
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2018, 12:14:22 PM »
Ever thought of renting a U-haul for the day and go get some pine?
If you are enjoying what you are doing,  is it still work?

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2388
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2018, 01:22:31 PM »
Just dont tell them what youre up to.  Last time i called uhaul their policy was no trailer rental unless its behind a big gutless gas hog box truck.  Dont know if it was franchise or national policy.
Revelation 3:20

Online TKehl

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Sedalia, MO
  • Gender: Male
  • Certified Contrarian
    • Share Post
    • Kehlhof Ranch
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2018, 02:29:13 PM »
Not seeing any yet that will get me 10" boards milled for a decent price.


Dumb question maybe, but do you need 10" boards?  These guys don't use single boards for their deep supers:

https://www.ozarkcedarhives.com/hive-bodies-and-supers

I would think a rough (tablesaw) tongue and groove would be nice as opposed to just glue and biscuits.
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.

Offline cbay

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Age: 47
  • Location: sw mo.
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: What's a fair deal (and advice) for a small guy needing logs?
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2018, 09:00:59 PM »
I run all deep hives (9 5/8"),  i say 10" to give me enough to square things up.

Thanks everyone,  bunch of good guys on here.   Lots to learn.  Hopefully i can contribute more as time goes by.


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
advice for milling small diameter logs

Started by yukon cornelius on Sawmills and Milling

13 Replies
1514 Views
Last post January 28, 2014, 06:56:28 PM
by Ianab
xx
how to make a fair deal?

Started by Engineer on Forestry and Logging

15 Replies
3093 Views
Last post November 21, 2004, 02:02:27 PM
by SwampDonkey
xx
Needing a drawing for a small TF project

Started by opticsguy on Timber Framing/Log construction

9 Replies
809 Views
Last post November 13, 2017, 01:21:32 PM
by opticsguy
xx
Greenie needing advice

Started by der7 on Forestry and Logging

20 Replies
2105 Views
Last post June 01, 2013, 07:17:28 PM
by der7
 


Powered by EzPortal