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ponderosa pine

Started by 5quarter, November 13, 2011, 07:41:09 PM

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5quarter

Normally I saw hardwoods and rarely have a problem, but currently I'm working my way through a whack of pine I'll need this spring for some buildings. Even though I keep my blade clean and sharp and use plenty of set, I'm having trouble with the knots. The saw wants to go go go, and when I let do so through the knots, I get a slight wave. I've been able to overcome it by slowing down through the knots, but its a killer on production. That and I have to be vigilantly looking just ahead of the blade constantly. Alot of you guys cut pine all the time...do you run into this alot? I wonder if I'm running up against the limits of my saw. Or maybe I'm doing something wrong? I've cut plenty of Austrian Pine and Douglas fir and did not have  to be so careful. Any help would be appreciated.

thanks,

Chet
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

rbarshaw

Cut from the small to the large end, a little more set in the teeth and possibly a little higher tension on the blade.
Been doing so much with so little for so long I can now do anything with nothing, except help from y'all!
By the way rbarshaw is short for Robert Barshaw.
My Second Mill Is Shopbuilt 64HP,37" wheels, still a work in progress.

buildthisfixthat

i agree a heavy set tooth will help the blade stand up to the knots ,,also you might try a 1-2 tpi blade ,i have used a bi-metal type blade such as a 3/4 vary pitch  blade on some knotty pine with good results
shop built bandsaw mill

5quarter

Thanks guys...I've got about 32 thousandths set on the blades right now and I am sawing from the small end. The hook angle is 8°. I don't think I can run the tension much higher without breaking the blade. Tonight I'll re-set one of the bands to 35/1000ths  and try it in the morning. These are really nice logs (for nebraska) and I don't want to mess them up. sizes range from 22"-28" small end dia. Could it be that the mill is simply underpowered? it seems unbelievable to me since the saw cuts flat through wide hardwoods like Oak and Locust but not through pine! I should also say that the dip is slight...maybe an 1/8" at most. Would a thicker band help? I have .042 now.

Thanks,

Chet
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

rbarshaw

All other things met, with pine, the knots are so hard compared to the rest of the tree, slowing down as you go thru the knot may be the only way to remove the wave. When I saw pine, there were some logs that responded to nothing but slowing down.
Been doing so much with so little for so long I can now do anything with nothing, except help from y'all!
By the way rbarshaw is short for Robert Barshaw.
My Second Mill Is Shopbuilt 64HP,37" wheels, still a work in progress.

buildthisfixthat

in my opinion at 0.32 tooth set you are maxed out with the 0.42 blade could be too much ..as for a thicker blade like a 0.55 you will use a bit more power to turn it however it is a more durable band  the thing about knots is the grain in the wood around them changes direction so for a moment the blades cross cutting with a vari tooth blade you get the happy medium of the abilty to cut cross the knots and along the grain ,.....
shop built bandsaw mill

backwoods sawyer

Start the day off with a new out of the box saw along with a new set of guides and see how that works. Check guide alignment if that don't solve it. A quick field check for guide alignment can be done with the mill off.  Each guide has a front and a back giving you four points to check for even contact. At each of the four points push the saw away from the guide with the same tension you will be able to tell if one point is different than the other three, simply adjust accordingly.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

5quarter

   well, I just got back in...I guess we'll see if 35/000ths is to much for the blade or my saw. I've never ran a blade with more than 32/1000ths. Backwoods...don't have a new set of guides, but the ones I have were new this last spring. I will check the guide alignment first thing. something else about this ponderosa pine...I did notice that compared to the douglas fir, the pine has alot more distorted grain immediately around the knots. I'm sure that is not helping me any.Thanks for all the help...I'll let you know tomorrow how it went.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

5quarter

Well, this is what happened...

  I was too busy to get to the mill yesterday, but I was at it early this morning. More set and a little more tension did the trick...no waves, dead straight. The trouble was, I had to go fairly slow because apparently I do not have enough power to pull a saw with that much set. Because of the feed rate, I had to stop after each cut and clean the blade while it was idling. I lost patience after about 3 cuts. Then I remembered that yesterday my 2 Xcel blades from Cookssaw came in the mail. I was skeptical because these blades have a little less set than the supersharps and a less agressive profile. I didnt measure them but they seem to me to be thicker, stiffer, more beam strength. I put one on and ran it through a cut. Dead level ...front to back, side to side, knots and all, and in 16" wide cuts. it was not fast, but much faster than I was cutting and there was no build up on the blade. after 7 cuts I was done...just like that. I'm marking this blade, "For Pine Only"! I checked the blade after I shut down cause a was seeing a lot of sawdust on the beams and it was a little warm. I think that is because I don't have enough HP to feed at a  fast enough rate to really maximize the benefits of the sawblade. I'm just happy to know I'll be able to get through the logs. Honestly, I don't know how you guys cut this stuff day in and day out. Give me an old hickory any day  ;)
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

pineywoods

Quote from: 5quarter on November 16, 2011, 12:09:08 AM
Honestly, I don't know how you guys cut this stuff day in and day out. Give me an old hickory any day :(

Cause, that's mostly what we have, and we don't know any different. :) You are probably right about the hp. I upgraded from a tired 18 hp briggs to a new 25 hp kawasaki and saw a noticeable difference.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

CalebL

I have the same problem when I'm trying to cut ERC too fast and not enough tension.  I just slow down a bit and crank the tension up a bit more. 
2005 LT40 HDD34
2000 Cat 226 Skid Loader

5quarter

Here's an update:

I've come to the conclusion that I need a good wick-type lube system, similar to what Member KelLog has on his saw. It turns out that the XCel blade is not a good softwood blade out of the box...not enough set. after about 12 or so cuts (wide cuts) it started to wander and pull the rpms down. Turns out that even though I clean the blade between each cut, the pitch and dust was building on the last half of the cut. I switched back to the supersharps, bumped up the tension and paused halfway through the cut and took my brass brush soaked in diesel and cleaned the blade at idle. then  I powered back up and finished the cut. every board since has been clean and straight.  it has been frustrating working with these logs, but I have learned quite a bit. as an aside, I'm getting some really great  lumber out of these logs The clear logs are making dimensional lumber and the knotty one are putting out some great live edge siding.

   Oh, and one other thing, which is almost unbelievable. You'll see a couple posts up at the end I carelessly said that I would rather saw an old hickory log. Two days ago, a good client of mine shows up with nice. 8 of them are very nice logs. 2 red oaks, 4 walnut and 2 ash. The 9th log was the largest...a pignut Hickory. He said it had been down since spring and I could see the bark beginning to slip off. He said he was thinking of selling it to a BBQ place and I agreed that that would be a wonderful idea. but no...he wants it sawn. Me and my big mouth. >:(
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

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