Concrete design help - walkway

[sbishop]

Hi everyone,

its been 10 years we are in our house and its time I get my walkways done....they are crush rock right now but the weeds are getting the best of it. I would like to make the walkways out of concrete.

I did up a sketch and was looking for some input on "turns", both flower beds are already there but could be cut short if needed. Any idea's or thoughts is much appreciated!

Thanks in advance
Sbishop

[Ljohnsaw]

Get the 20' lengths of PLASTIC bender board.  I picked up a bunch of scrap that had both 3/4"x4" and 2"x4".  The thin stuff works great for making arcs in form boards.  Use lots of stakes and cut them off flush with the tops of the form boards.

[Planman1954]

One of the most important things to consider is where the most foot traffic will occur. These are actually referred to as cow trails, for obvious reasons...they always wear down the shortest route. Anyway, your sketch contains an awful lot of walkway! I might use concrete in the high use areas between the parking area and the door, and then maybe some flagstone steps in lesser used areas. Leave about three feet minimum between the house and walkway for additional shrubbery, and make the walkway about 42" wide. Have fun with your project.

[thecfarm]

I would suspect you have a riding lawn mower? Try to make curves in your walkway. I am trying to do away with all of my square corners.

[47sawdust]

I have no experience with concrete walkways.Living in N.B. I would be concerned with frost heaving ruining your work without some serious prep work.A neighbor of mine here in Vt. had a field stone walkway professional built.The mason dug out the existing soil,compacted a sand base,installed 2''rigid insulation,more sand and then then stone.It has held up well.
A walk behind Bobcat skid steer works very well,heavy enough to do the work and nimble as well.

Another thought.Remove the stone,install filter fabric,lay down a bed of crushed granite and compact the bejeezus out it.Don't know if the crushed granite is available where you are but it does work well.

[justallan1]

A couple things that I've learned is at any approach or entryway widen your sidewalk a foot wider on each side than your door, somehow things get set there and are right in the way. Shoes, shoe scrapers, flower pots, Etc. Taper your side walks just a hair to drain away from the house. On sidewalks ALWAYS use an exposed aggregate finish or a swept finish and on a swept finish sweep the same direction of your taper.
If you use bender board on your corners use bunches of stakes, as mentioned above.

[Gadrock]

Consider installing a bunch of 3 inch pvc pipes or similar at several locations along the paths. We have found that we sometime decide we wished we had electricity or water faucets on the other sides. One may even consider installing LowVoltage  Lighting.

David G

carry on

[sbishop]

Thanks for the suggestions, here is the progress.

The pour probrably won't happen for another 2 weeks...busy schedule ahead!

Just need wire mesh and some more bracing, what do you all do to hold up the wire mesh?

Thanks
Sbishop

[Bricklayer51]

Pull it up as you pour.

[Banjo picker]

I would not use wire.  I would have the fiberglass mixed in with the wet concrete.  Its tough keeping the wire from sticking up out of the top.  You can buy strips of metal chair to keep it up off the bottom if you are gona use wire.  I wouldn't go over one inch tall for a side walk.  Strips of the chairs are about three ft. Long.  Banjo

[21incher]

I would make sure that a wide wheelchair can maneuver the walkways. Banjo I have to disagree with you on the fiberglass reinforced concrete. The builder talked me into it for my unheated pole barn floor and a couple of years later there are cracks all over from freezing and thawing with nothing to hold the cracked parts in alignment. Once that stuff cracks the fibers are all broken. At least with wire the wire doesn't break.

[47sawdust]

sbishop,
Nice prep job.I still would be worried about frost heaving and cracking your hard work.Is your soil well drained?Fibermesh won't do the trick in our climate,rebar in both directions 18''o.c. is the preferred reinforcement for slabs here in Vermont.
I strongly advise consulting a concrete professional where you live.
Mick

[mesquite buckeye]

Don't forget expansion joints at least every 20 feet and especially at the more or less square turns, as they like to crack diagonally there. If you use remesh, you can just pull it up as you pour, or scatter some 2 " rocks to preplace it in close to the right place. Good luck. ;D 8)

[sbishop]

drainage is good, the soil is pit run gravel, lots of sand and small rock...when my neighbor was using his small Kubota to remove about 6" from the top...it poured for about 20 minutes halfway thru...couldn't even see 10 ft...it cleared off and the water had already drained!

its well compated..took my time this past weekend and did 1" layers...spraying a bit of water on each time...just like cement today.. ;D

around here its mostly wire mess in walkways they use...was thinking of rebar just thinking it might be too much..i know you can't have too much but I think wire mess will be ok...going to attach each 4x8 to each other.

walkway is 48" wide.

Thanks
Sbishop

[Banjo picker]

I will admit that I am in a different world as far as temperature is concerned between sbishop and 21.  Not nearly the difference in temp, which would mean a very real difference in heaveing after a thaw.  I was a concrete contractor for quite a few years though and after being involved in demolition of quite a few thin slabs that were reinforced with wire mesh, I can tell you most of the wire is laying smooth on the ground, rusted with very little up in the concrete where it is supposed to be.  If its put in correctly I would choose the wire over fiberglass, but in the heat of battle while pouring a slab....the wire starts sticking up out of the concrete, and it gets mashed or stomped down to the bottom.  If you are gona use wire either get you some chairs to support it on or have someone that really cares in charge of pulling the wire up off the bottom.  You mentioned using rebar...that would be the very best way to go. You could use no. 3's  (3/8 rebar )     Mesquite buckeye hit the nail on the head about the expansion joints.  As to concrete cracking, if you make a pour that is 10 foot thick, if is big enough it will crack, so on a thin pour of only a few inches you have to tell it where to crack.  I would put a control joint about every 5 foot in that walk along with a true expansion joint at 20 or so....have a nice day.  Banjo

[Larry]

I usually use rebar.  Break up a couple of cement blocks to use as chairs.

I have another project I'm planning.  Had my concrete finishers out to insure there won't be problems when the time comes.  They told me of a new product that is a lot heavier than mesh.  They said it resembles cattle panels.  Cheaper than rebar and a lot easier to install.  You might check into it.

[barbender]

I was a backup mixer truck driver for a while, and I would have to second Banjo's comments about wire mesh- only a couple of crews consistently pulled the mesh up off of the ground. Most homeowner type pours, forget it.

[sbishop]

Banjo, I was planning on control joints every 5 feet, what is a "true expansion joint"?

Thanks

[Chuck White]

Rebar won't completely prevent your concrete from heaving and cracking, it will only prevent it from falling apart.  It'll hold the pieces together as long as the piece has the rebar running through it!

Just sayin'

[coxy]

 we did our 35x40 slab for the shop we used old chain link fence  it was free  ;D so far no trouble

[Warped]

Lot of good suggestions and the forms look great.
     While mesh holds concrete together it also aids in transferring temp changes through it. My experience says not to pour it to full height and expect to pull the welded steel up to the center (2"?), it will just bend and welds do break. Before filling the forms try and place as many plops around as possible in addition to any chairs. A stevadore (hooked handle) is used for this. Get an edger  to prevent edges from chipping off. Also a wet control joint maker. Goldblatt makes decent tools.
1/4" pitch in 10' aids in draining/shedding water.
Seeding before floating also provides traction and can really make a stunning sidewalk. I've used colored stones as well as smaller lava rock.
Good luck.
    My initial suggestion was going to be pavers, but you appear to well beyond that in prep now.

[Warped]

Oh, while it is fresh don't forget to carve 2015 in it, children's hand prints and place your half dollars and write "Warped" in it......really big letters!  :D

[Raider Bill]

Oh, while it is fresh don't forget to carve 2015 in it, children's hand prints and place your half dollars and write "Warped" in it......really big letters!  :D

Inscribe RAIDER NATION in it and I'll send you $20 American

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Bill, what did you do with the dog?

[Banjo picker]

Banjo, I was planning on control joints every 5 feet, what is a "true expansion joint"?

Expansion joint material can be bought at the box stores.  It is usually black in color and about half an inch thick, although you can get it muc thicker.  Put the expansion material where yoitant it , stake it in place it will be kind of flimsy, so when pouring the concrete put some concrete on both sides carefully before the main pour gets to them.  But i am getting the cart before the horse.  After you get it staked in place, drill about 4 Holes in it right in the center of the expansion material and insert a smooth dowl (metal)  half way through so half will be on both sides.  There should also be a dowl cap put on one side, put a pinch of foam rubber or something in the end before you put the cap on...just a little foam.  That will let the concrete push together just a bit if it needs to.  I found a nice picture on a .gov site, but cant get it on here.  I am at work an doing this on my phone, will check with you when i get home if that is not clear.   Have a great day.  Banjo