pricing question

[lawyer_sawyer]

I have been going through earlier posts reading some of the things people have done with their saws to make money.  I have to admit there are a ton of ideas here.  I am working on my business plan some more right now and the one I think is very cool is working for the bigger stationery mills.  to make my plan as complete as possible I was just going to mention this as a small possibility in the future.  The problem is I was unable to find out how people priced this kind of work.  I was wondering if those who have done or are contemplating doing this kind of work could tell me how they have priced this.  I am not asking specifics but either hourly, by the bdft, did you include your expenses, etc.. 
any help would be great, thanks

[Tom]

I just treated them the same as I do any of my other customers.  It is just another job.

[Brad_S.]

If you haven't approached a mill yet, you may find your question is moot, at least if my experience is any where near typical. I found that the mills I talked to dictated what they were willing to pay (bdft price) with a take it or leave it attitude. I found their offers to be inadequate but since I was just starting out, I spent about 4 months sawing for one. Pay was barely subsistence, but I learned to saw on their logs, not my own and learned what the market looks for. As soon as I could I moved on to custom sawing for others and buying, sawing, drying and marketing my own wood.

[Tom]

Maybe I should qualify my position.  I don't go ask to saw logs at another mill.  They come ask me to saw.  I state my price and conditions.  If they accept them, I saw.  If they don't, I go on about my business.

Having my own business, I can't see the future in sawing for a competitor at a cut rate so that he can compete with me.

Now that's just my situation.  I'm sure there are reasons others may have to saw for a big mill.

I was asked to move to Ga. and saw oversized logs for a big mill.  I stated my terms but there was a management change before the deal was consumated.  So, I don't know if it would have worked or not.   I think it would have.  Big logs have a big mill over a stump. .....so to speak. :D

[tnlogger]

A friend of mine has been sawing for a grade mill for 5 yr so far he ids under a shed and his rate id as you would expct for a large mill i think he gets 18cents a ft but he saws 8 rs a day with three men has a lt40 super. most of what he saws is high grand walnut and crerry at 8/4
but they thore in a lot of small cedar in the mix. and he cam costom saw on site for his custom logs and use thier equipment on the wk end so he has a fair deal going. he told me at the end of the month after labor and expecses he still comes out on a 20to 25% net so i think he has a good deal.

[Brad_S.]

Having my own business, I can't see the future in sawing for a competitor at a cut rate so that he can compete with me.

Amen. Even if you're not direct competitors, you would essentially be a mill employee without the protection of unemployment insurance or benefits. Your earnings potential is limited to the amount of lumber you can saw in a day while tying up your time and preventing you from exploring other opportunities which could lead to economic growth.
But that's just my 2 cents. As tnlogger states, it does work for some people.

[woodsteach]

I just started doing this very thing yesterday. 

I look at it as learning how to run my mill on someone elses logs.  His logs, his equipment, his part time helper (sometimes), my mill.

I make the payments + and can save up for support equipment while getting a heck of a workout.  While gaining valuable knowledge of the ins and outs of the business.

I use my Brand X to make 4x6 cants for him to process into pallet stock.  I will do this until the snow gets deep then I'll move it to my place (in a barn) and custom saw and saw my own logs.

By the way I get .13 /bd ft in the log on a doyle scale.

I'll do this every other day during the school year.

I don't look at him as a competitor as there are plenty of logs to go around.  This may change someday, but I look at him as an asset.  Experience is not the best teacher............ someone else's experience is the best teacher.  Learn from others mistakes.
Paul

[bull]

.30 bfd for softwood  .40 bfd for hardwood.  brought to my mill....
$40 per hour for bucking and log cleaning and its a slow job.
$40 per hour for hardware shut down and $25 for the blade.   

[Radar67]

Bull,
     What do you consider a hardware shutdown?

Stew

[WeeksvilleWoodWorx]

prolly the time it takes him to dig out the hardware that got his blade ;D

[bull]

If I hit hardware I shut down, pull and replace the blade, remove the log from the mill and if I want to waste time  cut the log into fire wood, could take an hour or better.  The customer is made aware of the hardware policy and it has worked quite well.....   reduced hardware shut downs by 90 %

**** My Customer Policy **** " The cutomer is always wrong !! If they were right they would be doing the job themselves and having as much fun as i do !!

[WeeksvilleWoodWorx]

**** My Customer Policy **** " The cutomer is always wrong !! If they were right they would be doing the job themselves and having as much fun as i do !!

Dang Bull!

You're tough ;D

[Mike_Barcaskey]

I think I found my new company motto!

bull, mind if I use it?

[Kirk_Allen]

One of the local loggers that wanted to rent my mill is now making plans on bringing all his logs here for me to grade saw.  My rate was higher than the Amish but looks like they have been less than fair on many ocasions according to the logger.  Dont know the whole story, as there are always two sides.

$.25 BF is my standard rate. 

With that in mind, do any of you charge more for logs cut on your site?  When I am doing custom sawing a tailman is provided by them or I charge them.  If they drop off there logs do you charge extra since they are not around to tail for you?  To date I have not charged more but its getting old doing all the work.  Seems more and more folks are dropping off there logs lately. 

[ronwood]

Kirk,

I charge the same either way at their site or mine. I don't mind doing it my place since I usually get the slabs. I can use all that I get. My dad, brother and I all have outside wood furances.  Two neighbors also have stoves.

Ron

[bull]

The more help the better, but the price is the same. Probably should be higher since Im providing an education.
Most customers are happy to help and do not complain about the price, They also leave realizing what it takes to make lumber and most feel it for a few days.
   

Mike: go for it you can send the royalties to my home address.

[Part_Timer]

Kirk


I charge more sometimes.  If they drop off a couple of logs that aren't monsters then I don't charge extra.  If someone wants 300 +bf then yep I charge another .10 bf. if they won't help.   That covers my sons time for helping.   

Some people seem to think that just because he's a kid he should work for free for them.  NOT in my house.  If we're cutting for us then he's on my time and I have to feed him which is more than .10bf.  If he's working for someone else he gets paid + feed.  They are getting off cheap

[BBTom]

I love it when customers drop off logs.  ;D   I know it is more work to do it all yourself, but I prefer it that way.  I can start when I want and stop when I want. I can saw at night if I want, or when it is raining or snowing, windy or not.  My mill is set up inside a shed for protection from the elements.  I have the edger right there and have good setup for stacking the lumber.  When they come to pick up their lumber, I can use the forks on the tractor to pick up the bundle and set in their truck or trailer.    Most of my sawing at home is for those who want me to kiln dry their lumber, so I can stick the lumber as I am taking it off the mill and set it under my air dry roof till ready for the kiln.

I admit that I normally get more bdft per day when doing an on-site job, but I have to fight the mud or ice  :( to get to the logs.  I don't  have the tractor there to move them around.  :( It just makes for more frustrations. 

I get the same $0.30 for sawing either place, but have a $25 setup fee for on-site jobs.  I have been at this price since 2002,  might be time to add a nickle for fuel surcharge. 

[lawyer_sawyer]

thank you all for your answers.  They really helped me through that part of my plan.
thanks

[MemphisLogger]

Lawyer,

We charge $60 an hour to run our mill at the customer's site. That pays overhead (gas, upkeep, blades and upgrades) $15/hour, my cousin $15/hour and me $30/hour.

We charge 40 cents/bdft to saw logs at our shop. This averages out to more than our hourly rate usually results in (25-30 cents).

The reason we're like this is that we leave all the mess on a customer's site unless they pay us to clean up (or we want it cuz it's waste from QSing big oaks  ;)) 

I don't like foolin' with firewood unless it's got good BTUs in it and bark and small slabs end up being a major disposal hassle in the city so I figure charging more to deal with it is fair.

Also, charging hourly at a customer's site puts the ball in their court in terms of organization, equipment support, extra helpers, etc.

Sawing by the boardfoot at the shop is an incentive for my cousin (he does most of the inhouse sawing) to get 'er done and get back to whatever else he needs to be doing--cleaning up all the waste.  :D

We also do quite a bit of in shop resawing on the mill and architectural detail cutting on our 36" bandsaw. When doing this we charge go back to our $60/hour rates.

When doing custom woodworking I figure retail market for materials (gotta love cutting out all the middle (wo)men)  and usually end up accounting only $30/hour shop time but that's alright since I much more enjoy working with smaller, lighter (dryer) pieces of wood  ;D