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harvesting firewood tops

Started by glassman_48, June 09, 2012, 07:05:21 AM

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glassman_48

We have a lot of logging done in our area of northern lower michigan.  We have acres and acres of tops that go to waste every year.  I have often wondered if it would be worth it to purchase a small machine to forward the tops to a designated area and then process them.  I have a small firewood processor being built, and I dont know much about the weight of those machines.  I am trying to purchase a 550 size truck with a dump bed to haul firewood and wondered what the smallest machine is out there and the weight etc.  If they are to heavy to pull with a truck the size that I am trying to purchase.  I have a guy in the area that has an old tree farmer from the 70's and he pays a guy 100 bucks to move it to an area that needs tops cut up.  He is considering selling the unit.  I wondered if it is cheaper to just purchase 100" logs from a logger.  If anyone has had experience in this area I would appreciate any advice. 

thecfarm

Probaly could buy a truck load cheaper than it would be to try to get the tops out. I suppose you would have to limb the tops,that takes time,pay the land owner some,than the cost of the machine,up keep and fuel is not cheap. Anything with chockers will be real slow too. May be hard to haul out alot at any one time.It's hard to get to the tops at times without running more trees over.I don't think I could make it pay even on my own land.
I know things are done different in other places. But if the tops are left here in the woods that is a sloppy-grab and go job. We don't have the problems with wild life like you guys do.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

glassman_48

cfarm,
That is what I kind of figured,  I just hired 2 guys part time for my glass business and I will have a little more time for myself now.  If I buy enough 100" logs and get them delivered right from the woods to my site I can get a pretty good price.  I just hate seeing all the tops go to waste.  There are at least 5 sites that a guy told me about that need the tops removed.  I didnt know if they made a real real small machine for something like that.  I am learning a lot in this forum.  thanks ed

thecfarm

I would also have to think too if you pay someone else to do it,they need certain training and insurance too,more money for all that.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

MHineman

  Here the tops are usually spelled out as still belonging to the land owner, so you would have to work out a price for them separate from the timber.  But... a friend who is a forester says that is a gray area since the top is defined as what is left after the logger is finished, since in some trees like Walnut, White Oak or other high value timber, to take larger limbs too.
  I'm not using a firewood processor, but do bring home enough for me and some to sell.  I generally take the crooked, rough, and small logs to use for firewood.  I can still move them with equipment and not have to deal with the smaller branches that don't add up very fast.
  That also keeps me in good standing with the landowner as they generally only want to work with limbs less than 12" and that is generally the point where I prefer to stop getting the logs for me to bring out.
  I can then work on those logs at home when I can't be out in the woods.
  I also sell logs to be cut and split to people.  They do the manual work and I still get enough to make it worthwhile to me.  They have a chance to work up firewood as a modest cost and don't have to go into the woods, as well as find some firewood to cut.
1999 WM LT40, 40 hp 4WD tractor, homemade forks, grapple, Walenstein FX90 skidding winch, Stihl 460 039 saws,  homebuilt kiln, ......

bill m

I would think a properly equipped tractor could move the tops efficiently. One of the biggest problems with top wood is that it generally does not make good processor wood, to crooked and lots of knots.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

lumberjack48

You can move a C4 or C5 Tfarmer with a F250 pickup. I would think the land owner would be happy to get the tops cleaned up. With a cable skidder with 6 chockers you can hook 6 to 20 tops at a time. Theres no way the firewood processor could keep up.

The land owner should pay you for cleaning the tops up.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

submarinesailor

If I owned the land, I would put up a sign, "U Cut Firewood, $15 small pickup truck load, $20 full sized truck load".  Years ago(actually many years ago), several land owners had their timber cut and did this.  I know because we pulled about15 small truck loads out at $5 per load.

Clam77

If the branches are too small for firewood you could possibly get you a chipper machine and a box truck to blow them in like the tree service guys use - alot of people will pay for hardwood wood chips to put around their flower beds and such..
Andy

Stihl 009, 028, 038, 041, MS362
Mac 1-40, 3-25

Ed_K

Those top are not really going to waste,think fertlizer.what I leave would drive a processor operator to drinking,to crooked  ;) .
Ed K

Johnny

yeah, we currently salvage top wood in hardwood lots right up to 3", and most aspects of it drive you to drink.  but we have to manage the tops anyway, deer control of browsing regrowth.  tops get trimmed out when bucking, winched out (awful) or put on forwarder (needs patience).  either way, we usually have to re-handle a lot of it for further movement and that is where the pain is, it doesn't stack well and the grab twists it all ways.  so avoid mechanised rehandling!

sawing is not so bad, we have a 700mm circle saw with conveyor.  we don't split anything below 4 inches.  bigger, long straight bits get split into 1.1m billets for drying.  bendy rubbish gets sawn to stove length, then split.  then have a beer and do it again tomorrow...

it's barely financially viable...

so a great niche!

westyswoods

Hate to burst anyones bubble, although unless you really enjoy being in the woods and have more time than money processing firewood from tops not on your land is not a money maker.

I have done it on and off for twenty plus years. Never have made any money,did it and still do as we burn wood and it works for me. To break it down via hours equipment cost, travel time, frustration, and so on will take more time than I care to spend. All I can say it was always a no win for me and I had all the equipment needed.

Good Luck if you decide to go forward.
Stay Safe and Be Healthy
Westy

glassman_48

thanks for everyones input on this, I also use a buzz rig on the back of my tractor for smaller wood.  Around here most homeowners charge 5 bucks a top which averages out to 15 bucks for a pulp cord.  It is cheaper for me to get my wood by the semi load but when my glass business is really slow, I was considering trying this.  I have never tried taking tops out so your input makes sense.  I forgot to hit the notify button or I would have replied sooner. 

saltydog

Thats how i got started logging bought 80 acrs of tops cut and hauled with a f250.delivered right from the woods.just a saw and maul .it bought my first tree farmer.Im with lumberjack48 nothing slow about a cable machine.couple pulls you would have alot of bucking on the landing.Guess it depends on how hard you want to work.At 90 bucks a pulpcord delivered theirs not much profit in buying it.Its for sale in your area for 50 a facecord.that dont leave much meat left on the bone.
Proud to be a self employed logger.just me my Treefarmer forwader Ford f600 truck 2186 Jonsereds 385 and 390 husky and several 372s a couple 2171s one 2156  one stihl 066  Hudson bandmill Farquhar 56"cat powered mill.and five kids one wife.

Corley5

I don't see much profit in buying and processing 100" hardwood.  A pulp cord will average 2.5 16" facecords.  Sometimes they come out better sometimes less.  I can process and deliver 2 five facecords loads in a day working by myself fairly easy with my 14-12 Block Buster.  At 60 bucks a cord that's 600 dollars.  I see wood advertised now at 55 per face cord.  You buy a 20 cord load of pulp for 1,400 bucks.  Maybe you could get a deal for 65 a cord.  That 20 cord load processes out to 50 facecords which you sell for 60 bucks each and net 3,000.00.  This takes a week at 10 cords per day.  Fourteen hundred goes right back for more wood.  I figure 25.00 per load for fuel to deliver.  That varies on distance of course but 25 covers it well. The Blockbuster  and elevator uses about 5-6 gallons of gas per 10 cords which amounts to about 20.00.  The Bobcat uses a couple gallons of diesel loading logs and moving sawdust.  That's around 80 dollars worth of fuel per day x 5 equals 400 dollars per week.  The 1,600 left after paying for the pulp becomes 1,200.00 with which you make truck, equipment, insurance, and license payments, fix anything that breaks, perform routine maintenance and replace wearables like tires, brakes, bars, chains, hydraulic hoses etc. and put something aside for a rainy day fund.  There's not much meat on the bone after that.
  I make it work because I've got my own hardwood pulp to process from my logging operations.  I've bought pulp to process when I've been short with my own but now I tell people I'm out of firewood.  It cost less to have the equipment sitting idle than working for nothing  ;) ;D  That's how it works for me  :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

glassman_48

corley5, thank you for that reply, it was full of great info for me.  I have a bunch of friends in this area that purchase semi loads of firewood for their own personal use.  In doing a lot of research over the last couple of years I found out that the average person spends $7.50 per face cord ($22.50 pulp cord) when they purchase a saw, files, gas, mix, bar oil etc.  If they hired someone for 10 bucks an hour and let them use their saw and gas etc. they would have $17.50 per face cord invested in cutting their semi load.  Most of the guys I have talked to with mobile processors try to get $20.00 per face cord or $60.00 per full cord.  That includes getting the wood split.  Almost everyone wants me to process their loads, after years they are getting tired of all the work.  I am planning on charging $550.00 per 10 pulp cord load, the machine that is getting built is rated at 2 pulp cords per hour.  I am purchasing just enough 100" wood for my own personal needs and a few relatives and friends.  I am not really even sellilng to the public.  The state has called me here when the rest of the guys run out of seasoned wood.  I realized that I could make more money by just processing semi loads.  I dont have any extra equipment for the woods, but opened this post to see if anyone had ever tried.  The input I am getting in here is really valuable to me.  Thanks for everyones input.

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