How long can logs sit before sawing?

[MemphisLogger]

Y'all might not have heard, but we had a huge windstorm here inMemphis on July 22nd. Thousands of trees were downed by the wind and fortunately (for us) most were pushed over with their root balls still attached. This left most of the trunks off the ground, supported by their roots and crowns.

For a week after the storm, we ran around town and networked with local arborists to save as much Walnut, Cherry and White Oak as possible.

We yarded up a good 40,000 bdft worth of logs before the local paper and TV stations decided they needed to do a story on us.



After the story came out, we were swamped with calls from all over the county. Most calls were offers of free trees but we also got a lot of calls for custom sawing and inquiries about  the lumber we sell.

We've been so busy sawing for others, that we haven't been able to touch our own stash yet and we still have a lot of "suspended" logs to recover.

My 2 questions are:

How long can the logs sit in front of my house before they begin to deteriorate? (They're well endsealed and up on skids on my street)

and

How long can the fallen trees (trunks off the ground) sit before they begin to deteriorate?

Thanks for any advise!

       

[pappy]

UrbanLogger,

Nice log ya got on yer mill there!!! 8)

Any hardwood especially during warm humid weather needs to be sawn, stickered and placed in a kiln within days of being logged. White Pine will turn blue and the bugs will feast.  :'( :'(

Processing during winter can buy you a few days, maybe a week or two.

Up here in the north country we can gain 4-5 months as everything freezes solid. ;D

[MemphisLogger]

Will the bugs get into the heartwood as well?

What should I expect from month-old logs?

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Can't answer yer question, but, I got one. Why dontcha teach the lad in the photo the easy way to use that there hook???, OR, are ya just bein mean to him??? :D :D :D :D
   I had a teenager working for me, on my Circle mill, many years ago. He would get in that position and near strain his mustard, tryin to turn a log. I showed him a number of times, then one day demonstrated. Flipped him AND the log. He found his way a LOT harder after that.
  I bought logs and also did logging in North Arkansas. Don'T remember any problems with logs being down for a month at a time???

   40,000 ft of logs, huh? You must live on a deadend road or something???

[Larry]

I wouldn't worry too much about the trees still on the stump.   Most of them are probably still alive.

Walnut will last a long time with very little problems.  The oaks will also be all right but red oaks start getting bugs in the sapwood after a few months.  The ends on white oak dry out and it will be tough to saw.  Maple, hackberry, and basswood need to be sawed before it hits the ground because it picks up stain real fast.  Learned my lesson with those three.  Never have left any ash, sycamore, or cottonwood laying around to see what happens to them but I suspect they also need to be sawed fast especially in hot weather.

[Minnesota_boy]

A customer asked me to saw up some red oak he had bought.  I thought he had flipped when I looked at the pile of logs.  These red oak had been cut at least 5 years before I was called.  The sapwood was rotted away on most of them, but the heart wood was solid and beautiful.  Of course there was some end checking as the ends hadn't been sealed, but there was still a lot of good wood in them.

[oakiemac]

I recently sawed about 600 ft of Cherry that had been blown down for a year and a half. All the wood was in excellent shape. There was one Red Oak and it was rotten to the core, but it might of been anyways since it had a large knot hole that was allowing water to get into the heart wood.

[ARKANSAWYER]

No real rush.  I have sawn logs that have been down 15 years+.   Bass wood and pine will stain fast but the lumber is still good and some times brings more for the stain.  The cooler temps will help slow things down.   Some logs you may want to pull to the side and let set for a couple of years.  I would pile all of the maple and sycamore for atleast a 18 month sit.  You can have a year or so on the oaks.  Sweet gum does not last long and hickory and ash will get a bit buggy but that to adds to it sometimes.  Walnut and cherry as well as black locust can wait for years.
ARKANSAWYER

[Gus]

UL,
If you take the bark off pine and read oak it takes all the fun out of it for bugs. I've seen whitw oak go to the mill that had most of the sapwood rotted off and still produce nice lumber.
Gus

[jerry-m]

I agree with Arkansawyer that logs can be held for very long times (years) if up off of ground... Exception is solfwoods and Pine especialy... You will have a lot of sapwood rot to contend with whenever you do get around to sawing them... Also if in front of your house the bark will make a mess after a year or two... I hate to waste anything and always try to salvage what I can... However I just saw for myself and not interested in production...

jerry

[Jason_WI]

Sawing them fresh is a lot easier on blades. I was sawing spalted maple last week that was dry as a bone. The smaller stuff went OK though I had to change the blade after 250 - 300 bf.

When I got to the big stuff at 24" the blade hot too hot and lost all its set. I was flooding the blade with water but that was not enough. I was using Wood Mizer .045, 9 degree double hard blades. The sawdust gets too fine and spills out of the gullet causing excessive heat.

I gave up on the big stuff after 2 blades.

Jason

[MemphisLogger]

Thanks for all the input. I usually try to saw as as it's down but we've been offered so many free logs that it's been all we can do to just pick them all up.

After hearing y'all's wisdom on this, I figure the only logs I'm sitting on that I might worry about are some holly and soft maple.

Thanks again!

 

[Papa Dave]

I live in the Memphis area and cut lumber on my mill as a hobby. I have cut red oak that was nine months old without much problem. A little checking on the ends but no stain or rot. Walnut will last two years or better.

[MemphisLogger]

Where are you at ,Papa Dave, and what kind of mill do you run?

[UNCLEBUCK]

hi everybody !  does the same apply to a circular mill as a bandmill as far as being able to saw logs that have been laying in a pile for a year , i have circular mill, any comments , thanks !

[Fla._Deadheader]

  When I had my Circle mill, I sawed Red Oak that had the sapwood rotted off. Still got good lumber. Post Oak gets hard, though. Still saws good lumber.

[4x4American]

So @UrbanLogger how'd ya make out?  You get everythin sawed did ya?

[Magicman]

4X4, the @ function has been disabled for several months.  2003? Yikes!

[4x4American]

I remember the good ole days...when the @ button worked...yea that was the life  :(






2003 ... I remember it like it was yesterday....I offbeared lumber for $40/month and we sawed 6-8mbf/day.  Hard work but in those days $40 got you alot further than it does nowadays.

[Magicman]

Ah, but then you are much older than I am......or did I just forget??  ???   

[pine]

4X4, the @ function has been disabled for several months.  2003? Yikes!

Count me in the group that did not know that either.  The more things change.

[longtime lurker]

Anyway, on topic.... just a decade late responding  :D.... Best that ever happened to me was a guy has me in pulling logs and sawing for him a couple of years ago and we pulled a big old Grey Satinash that had been felled across a creek ( was off the ground for the middle 40' or so) by the last loggers in there.

Sooo... I hook the dozer on, cut two 15' lengths out and haul one up with the D5 scratching for traction with the weight, dig a hole and roll them in ( seriously big logs), put the Lucas over the top and start hacking away. Cut down aways, pull the log out the hole and finish it... Go get the other half and do it again. 140 lengths of 2x6 x 15'out of those two pieces, plus some shorts and a few 4's and 5's. Ain't nothing like big rainforest trees for flat out production if you got the gear.

The last loggers had been there in. 1969!

[4x4American]

I can remember back quite a long ways Lynn lol

[Carson-saws]

I also agree with ARKANSAWYER.  The one thing to consider is the "stress" relief in an "older log."  Pretty much as soon as you open it up the "tell tale signs" will give you an idea of its "age"  For me, the smell gives a hint of age too.  Unless its just me needin a shower.

[Brad_bb]

Most hardwood logs can be stored for a long time if done correctly.  Yes, it's easier on bands the greener they are, but it's not the end of the world if they aren't. 

The key is storing them so they don't hold moisture and rot the sapwood.  To do that, store them:
1. off the ground
2. Out of the sun
3. so they don't get rained on, though if they do, if they have enough air circulation to dry them quickly, they should be alright as long as you don't have a knot hole holding water or anything.
4. Seal the ends with Anchorseal.

I have stored them in my building for over a year.  I have stored some outside under shade cloth tarp for a couple months.  Shade cloth tarp is like some Semi's use.  Also another type is used by garden centers/nurseries.  It blocks 70 percent or more of the sun but allows airflow.  I have seen others store them outside in the shade with a polebarn tin/sheetmetal cover. 
As far as bugs, I've had some powder post beetle activity, but when they dry enough that seems to slow down.  They don't seem to eat too much.  You can fog logs stored inside with Timbor or similar to protect them(green lumber too).  Another thing to reduce beetle larvae is to debark them.  Actually I recently started debarking walnut because it's so much easier to debark it while green than after it's sat in my pole barn for a year and dried too much.  Remember, hardwood logs will hold moisture for quite awhile.  Oaks will last a long time in my building.  I've seen some white oaks that have been sitting for years under a shade tree at a farmers place and I know they are still good.  It doesn't even look like the sapwood is rotting at all.

The longer you wait to cut them, I'm sure there will be some yield loss over time.  If you follow the above it should be kept low. 

If I were you, I'd mill the Cherry first.  From my limited experience with cherry, it's sapwood seemed to be more susceptible to rotting if it had enough moisture.  Good luck and happy milling!