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Woodmizer alternator issues

Started by woodrat, March 03, 2014, 06:55:51 PM

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Bandmill Bandit

If its a simple mater of replacing regulator, doides, bearings etc and I have them on hand or can get same day I rebuild my own. any thing more than this I use a local Industrial starter, alternator/generator rebuild shop.

Have to look up part numbers. I have em and sent some them to Ga Mtn man a few days ago. 
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Chuck White

Quote from: woodrat on March 06, 2014, 07:02:05 PM
Anyone ever rebuild their own alternator? Looks like I can get a parts kit off of ebay for about $40. We used to rebuild alternators and starters and carburetors and even distributors back in high school auto shop, but now it seems like no one ever does anything but swap out whole assemblies anymore, even if there's only something minor wrong with them.


If I could get the parts kit for $40.00, I think I would just take it to a shop and have them rebuild it for $60.00 instead!

That way, if it wasn't right when I got it back on the mill, I could always take it back to them to correct!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

woodrat

Problem is is that the closest auto electrical shop that would consider a job like that is an hour and a half round trip from me. My local auto shop won't touch it, they just want to sell me another NAPA rebuild.

I ordered a parts kit off of ebay; we'll see how it goes.
1996 Woodmizer LT40HD
Yanmar 3220D and MF 253
Wallenstein FX 65 logging winch
Husky 61, 272XP, 372XP, 346XP, 353
Stihl 036, 046 with Lewis Winch
78 Chevy C30 dump truck, 80 Ford F350 4x4
35 ton firewood splitter
Eastonmade 22-28 splitter and conveyor
and ...lots of other junk...

Bandmill Bandit

This Post will provide information and links for rebuild parts and up grades on the Remy CS135 alternators common on Woodmizer and other mills. i will come back and add information as I find it.

There are 2 suppliers that I have found so far that have a very good reputation for quality and prompt delivery policies along with reasonable prices

USA

1) USA Built High Output Alternator, Upgrades, Parts, Kits

They have posted "how to" instructional video on YouTube and  also have parts and upgrade kits for many other alternators as well. These guys have a back cover for the CS135 Series Delco Remys that is exclusive to them that  has drastically improved cooling/airflow characteristics to reduce heat, which is an alternators primary enemy.

Surf their site to find the info you need for your particular alternator needs.

Canada

2) www.alternatorstarter.com

This company is not quite as free with infortmation on doing it your self but they do have a good supply of the components to do your own rebuilds and up grades.

You will be able to find upgrade kits to take the standard 105amp CS135 on the LT40 up to a 145 amp alternator along with kits and instructions to improve performance and durability of pretty much most alternators that have been and are in use in North America.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Bandmill Bandit

This Should probably go under the usefull sawmill mods section.



 

My son had a hand full of computer heat sinks laying on his shop bench so he brought em over with tube of the heat transfer compound and said Dad you should stick these on your mill alternator.

A bit of filling and emery cloth to get the surface prepped and they are glued in place. Used a thin line of JB weld on the edges with the heat compound in the middle. The 3 top ones have the 3M 2 sided heat transfer tape to hold them in place. We will see how well they work.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Bandmill Bandit

I ran the mill for a couple of hours today and monitored the alternator operating temp with heat sinks installed on the alternator.

Average temp was 150 to 160 degrees F. That is down 25 to 30 degrees from what normal was before I did the mod. Not a bad improvement for a couple of hours of work and a hand full of surplus heat sinks.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

ladylake


Good idea, maybe put a couple more in the center of the alternator where the heat is generated.  Do the make a oversized cooling fan, if so that would help.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Bandmill Bandit

Yea Ladylake I was thinking of doing that but it is a bit more difficult to do. Son as a few more heat sinks at the shop in town that he is gona grab fro me.  I am gona try and get a few more glued on around the middle section. Also have a heavy duty rotor that I could modifying to mount and external fan to the back of the alternator. Will have to see what kind of temps it runs at in the heat of the summer.

Ordering a 140amp "iceberg" upgrade kit from alternatorparts.com for my spare alternator that is on the shop bench right now.

The one that is on the mill right now has a heavy duty rotor, bridge rectifier with 70 amp diodes instead of the normal 30s and a heavy duty adjustable voltage regulator as well. On the bench test it was putting out 120 to 125 amps at 5800 RPM and was holding 80 to 90amps at 2000RPM which is a pretty good improvement on the standard CS135. I think part of the heat reduction may well be a result of the heavy duty parts I put in this one when I rebuilt it as the larger capacity parts would present significantly less resistance and there fore less heat. We will see how it stands up to daily use but I think it gona be real good

           
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Bandmill Bandit

Have not had time to post much lately as i have been very busy.

I am VERY happy with my alternator mods and my side kick generator.

I was able to do some voltage and amperage readings  along with alternator temp readings over the months of july and august. Temp reading on both alternators ran between 130 F* on the low side cooler parts of the days and to about 160 F* in the hottest parts of the day. Those operating temps a full 100 F* lower average than what the mill alternator was running before I made any changes. (from the hottest to coolest temps) average is about 50-60 F*

One change I forgot to mention is the 1.75 inch diameter pulley on the mill alternator which is a 1/4 inch smaller than the factory one and the high torque kevlar belt I am using to drive it. Just over 800 hours since last belt and alternator replacement. Got 268 hours out of first alternator and 312 out the second one. All electrical mods were done at the time I replaced the second alternator.   

Amperage out put on the 2 alternators hitting the mill was running at about 220 to 230 consistently and the lowest voltage reading at any of the motors was 12.8. 

No load running voltage runs at 14.6.

Highest amperage draw runs around 150 160. average is about 100

Full recovery on the batteries from loading and turning logs in the normal course of milling runs a max 90 seconds.

I think I may in crease wire gauge to the feed motor to #6. That is the one that pulls down to 12.8 Volts

engine operation temp is about 20 degrees less than it was before did the electrical mods.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Dave Shepard

I'm wondering if this isn't a ground issue as mentioned. If you lost ground, you would not get output from the alternator. Perhaps the act of removing and replacing the alt. restores the ground for a while. Maybe the next time it stops working, just remove it and put it back on with clean connections.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Magicman

I am unsure about the alternator "voltage regulators".  If you connect two regular battery chargers up to the same battery, the charger putting out the higher voltage will be the only one doing any charging.  The regulator diode will effectively shut the lower voltage charger off.  The charger that is shut off could be the one capable of supplying the highest amperage charge.   smiley_dizzy
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Bandmill Bandit

I have to go on hunt here in the forum.

There is a service bulletin that Kohler put out a few years ago on that ground issue. That was the very first thing that got me concentrating on the electrical issues. Will post link here when I find it again.

Found it and since I posted it the local Kohler service rep told me that he makes sure ALL equipment that he sees through the shop gets a "grounding improvement procedure" before it goes back into service.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,63982.msg952524.html#msg952524   
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Ga Mtn Man

Can you recommend a "copper-based anti-sieze compound"?
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

Bandmill Bandit

The can I have is a permatex product for high heat applications.

heres a link.

http://www.permatex.com/products-2/product-categories/lubricants/specialty-lubricants-anti-seize/permatex--copper-anti-seize-lubricant-detail

Its not cheap but my little 4 oz can has been in my tool box for 30 plus years and its just about empty now. Gets used on every exhaust and electrical connection bolt I ever take a apart.

I have a can of the aluminum based product too but I don't like it as much.

I got mine at NAPA and I imagine they probably still carry it.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Bandmill Bandit

General FYI on the copper contact strip.

I have been using the AmsOil metal protectant on the copper strip and have had no intermittent contact issues since i started doing that. it is working well for me. If some one is using something that works better please post so we can all use it. 
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

backwoods sawyer

Shortly after buying the mill I added a ground wire from alternator to ground in main box near the battery, also added an aditional positive lead to the battery. This summer I had another alternator go out (fried all components same as last one) had the battery tested and it fell flat on its face. Brass ground was gummed up with ATF and Pine Pitch, so we completed the circit by running a wire from the ground stud in the lower box thru the Agiss track and grounded to the frame.

Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

OlJarhead

Bumping this thread since I seem to be having alternator issues after just 50 hrs of operation.

Mill quit on me 4 hrs into milling on Saturday (not happy) and after testing it appears to be the alternator.  I'm recharging the battery (it was up to 12.3v last night) which had dropped to 10.9v when the mill quit and will do some testing this afternoon after I call WM (and try not to yell since the mill does only have 50hrs on it)....

I'll report back
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

Stephen1

Quote from: woodrat on March 06, 2014, 04:35:07 PM
Getting home from out of town tonight, and will work on the mill tomorrow and see if I can find a short somewhere. I am running the 105A alternator. Keeping a spare on hand sounds like an excellent idea. I should see if I can find one in a wrecking yard with the right clocking and rebuild it as a spare.

I don't think there has been an alternator light working on this mill since I bought it used over ten years ago. I have the light that shows that the key is on, but the other one never has worked. I did have to replace the alternator plug a few years back, and I think I left the wire to the light un connected and taped up, since the light didn't work. I'll sort through that again, too, and see what I can find.

I used to do this nearly full time, but in the past few years don't work it that often anymore, and it always seems like I need a battery, maybe an alternator, and probably another $100 thrown at it every time I have to take it on the road. Which makes me want to do that even less, of course...  :-\
I am no expert on Electrical, but I can tell you that alternator light is imperative to the running and charging of the mill. That is the 1st thing I look for when I have an electrical problem, and believe me I have electrical problems. I know now how to use a meter 8) . Get that light fixed 1st.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Bandmill Bandit

IF no changes since 2007 on the woodmizer mills LT40 and lower;

The alternator is a Delco Remy CS135. You can pick one up at any good wreaking yard and swap your front cover with the one on your current alternator and set your clock position as required on reassembly. Quite a few car/pickups have a 1/4 inch smaller pulley on them IF its a single V groove pulley. I think it has to be pre 92 to have that pulley. The spare I have in my parts box is off of an 89 Chev 4x4 The one on the mill at the moment is off of a 90 GMC 1500 4X4. That spare has been in the box for 3 years since I did all the mods to fix the cooling issues. No problems since. I did install a new battery yesterday which is the 3rd battery since new in 2007 so 2 batteries in 9 years is pretty good id say.  

COOLING is the number one issue to deal with and the BELT is the first step in that process. The pulley, I would say is the second.

There are links above that will take you to a site that supplies an "iceberg" cooling back cover and every other part you could ever need to repair most alternators.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

OlJarhead

Solved my problem.  Alternator is fine, the problem was the exciter wire was disconnected in the control panel....go figure!
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

Bandmill Bandit

Just giving this thread a bump up since alternator issues have come out of hibernation again. 
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

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