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1/4 Scale

Started by Scammell, April 24, 2016, 03:40:29 PM

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Scammell

Hello,
I bought a wood mizer saw mill last fall. The lt35 HD.. I'm having a hard time using the quarter scale that came with it.. I've had 3 different woodmizer owners come look at my scale all of theirs are different then mine.. I feel like that scale that came with my saw Is a manufacturer defect.. Is there any way i can post a picture of it on here so somebody  can tell me if I'm wrong or right...When I switch from different thickness cuts in have to move my scale.. I've worked on mills before where this wasn't necessary.
Eric Scammell

sawguy21

Welcome to the scrum. Go to the bottom of the Home page for a tutorial on posting pictures. You need to create a gallery and upload your pictures to it before inserting them in a post. It is not difficult once you get onto it.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Magicman

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Scammell.  Some LT35 owners will come along with help.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

MartyParsons

Hello,
The LT15, LT28 and the LT35 have a magnetic standard quarter scale. If you place the first  4 line on the scale on 1" there should be one 4 line to lined up with 10" on the ruler scale. The space between each 4 line on the magnetic scale would be 1 1/8" between the lines.
There is also 4 5 6 and 8 lines on the magnet. This magnet figures out the 1/8" kerf loss between the cuts.

  • 4 = 1" lumber
  • 5= 1 1/4' lumber
  • 6 = 1 1/2" lumber
  • 8= 2" lumber

Hope this helps.

Marty
[/list]
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

WV Sawmiller

Scammell,

   Welcome to the FF. Please update your profile with location and equipment information so we all know more about you.

    I have owned my LT35HDG25 for 15 months and have a confession - I have yet to use my quarter scale. I love my Simple Set and use it extensively. When I see I have the face opened that I am comfortable with I turn on my SS and set it to the default 1-1/8" if I am cutting 4/4 or 1/8" more than whatever size I want and let it do the math for me. I even use it when measuring my cants. The only thing I even use my regular scale is to make sure I don't cut into my dogs or to tell my cant height if I want to stand my flitches up against it and start edging them.

    Good luck and keep us posted.

Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Remle

Quote from: Scammell on April 24, 2016, 03:40:29 PM
Hello,
I bought a wood mizer saw mill last fall. The lt35 HD.. I'm having a hard time using the quarter scale that came with it.. I've had 3 different woodmizer owners come look at my scale all of theirs are different then mine.. I feel like that scale that came with my saw Is a manufacturer defect.. Is there any way i can post a picture of it on here so somebody  can tell me if I'm wrong or right...When I switch from different thickness cuts in have to move my scale.. I've worked on mills before where this wasn't necessary.
Scammell
You are right, when you change board thicknesses on the same cant you need to reset your scale to do so. Those with Simple Set change the parameters of their program and in effect are doing the same thing as you do manually. Most times working with a squared cant this will result in a skim cut to get to the next board thickness. However if you use the sliding scale you can skip the skim cut and continue cutting down from the last cut surface leaving the extra thickness to the last board on the deck if you set it before moving the blade from the last cut. The best way I have found to open a log is to, level the log, set the blade to the desired slabbing location and set the sliding scale to the same height as the blade per the nearest 4,5,6or 8 marking on the scale and saw off the slab. Then take one or two additional fletches of the desired thickness before rotating the log. Then rotate the log and do the  procedure over again a second time. On the third rotation put the scale back down to the bed as a reference from the bed before taking off the slab, starting at the closest desired board thickness that will give you a wane free piece of material and additional skim cuts will not be necessary. The fourth rotation is handled the same as the third. As Marty stated, the band thickness is built into the scale from the bed up to provide the required height for each 4,5,6,8 taken from the cant.

Kbeitz

I made two adajustable pointers .




 
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Chuck White

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Scammell.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Scammell

Eric Scammell

Scammell

Eric Scammell

Scammell





And this is what i think my scale should look like .. AM i wrong?
Eric Scammell

Bandmill Bandit

Yup Eric
That what it should look like on the LT40 Wood mizer.

That is a pic of my mills scale/ruler during the laser install process.

Since I installed the simple set I don' ever adjust my scale ruler at all.

I see its out about an 1/8 in that pic. Ill have to go check it now. 
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

barbender

     Hello, Scammell- I am not understanding what you are having trouble with. On the LT40, the scale is held in place with a wingnut, you loosen it to adjust the scale.  If I am sawing say, an 8" cant, I open one face, rotate 180, and adjust the scale so whatever thickness lumber I am sawing (let's say 4/4) so the nearest 4/4 mark lines up with 8", and then saw with the scale down to 8". Yours looks like you would do the same thing, except yours is magnetic instead of being held in place by a nut. Am I missing something?
Too many irons in the fire

barbender

  If my post sounds snarky, that's not my intent at all.  I'm just saying, I am not clear on the problem.  I am a bit slow of understanding.  ::)
Too many irons in the fire

Scammell

I am jut not clear on if I am supposed to move the quarter scale with each different thickness cut. Say I cut one log using the 6 scale (1.5")and then the next log i want to us the 8 scale (2"). DO i have to move the magnetic scale each time to line up with the desired scale?  On my uncles old lt30 he never had to physically move any scales at any time. If I have my scale lined up on the 6 scale then it wil end at the 1.5" mark. Then on the next log if i leave the scale where it is and i want to cut on the 8 scale it the last board will end up on 2 3/4" mark when it should be on the two. I know i make things confusing.
Eric Scammell

derhntr

Maybe I am blind I just don't see a blade height indicator, I rarely use my 1/4 scale I use the accuset.
2006 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 with command control (I hate walking in sawdust)
US Army National Guard (RET) SFC

barbender

     Ok, I see the problem now. When you have the 4/4 aligned with 1", the 5/4 should align with 1 1/4",  6/4 with 1 1/2", 8/4 with 2". Yours doesn't look right, like it got cut at the wrong spot at the magnetic scale factory ;)
Too many irons in the fire

uler3161

I can't see the other end of your 1/4 scale, but I'm guessing it reads from the bottom up. I don't know the newer mills that well, but I think they changed how the gauges are done that required them to be read top down (which your 1" seems to be). If I'm correct, I believe your 1/4 scale is for an older mill.
1989 LT40HD, WoodMaster 718

Dan

drobertson

Looks like a mis print to me,,  all I can add to this is if you decide to change a pattern, meaning you start out with one plan, the two opposite sides are on a pattern, the two other faces on another plan,(pattern) if you will, once a pattern is decided on, and then switched up, the will be a waste trim cut to bring the new pattern in,, most of the time.  My advice is for each log pick a pattern and stick to it for less waste,, knowing at times there may be some,,, the other is get another scale stick,, that one you have  looks skew-hawed,,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Ga Mtn Man

Does the mill have a blade height indicator that spans across the two scales?
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

Bandmill Bandit

Quote from: barbender on April 25, 2016, 05:28:49 PM
     Ok, I see the problem now. When you have the 4/4 aligned with 1", the 5/4 should align with 1 1/4",  6/4 with 1 1/2", 8/4 with 2". Yours doesn't look right, like it got cut at the wrong spot at the magnetic scale factory ;)

4/4 should be 1 1/8, 5/4 should be 1 3/8s, 6/4 should be 1 5/8s and so on.


Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Remle

Quote from: Scammell on April 25, 2016, 02:13:58 PM
Raise the 4/5/6/8 scale up so it is level on the end with the top black mark on the red section of the 1" scale, ditto on the other picture with the red end.


My Scale

barbender

     BB, my 1/4 scale gives me lumber that is not oversize, unless I flip it over and use the hardwood scale- i.e., if I aligned it so my 4/4 was on 1 1/8", I would have a bunch of 1" boards and one 1 1/8" on the bottom.
Too many irons in the fire

Bandmill Bandit

I will take some pics of my scale/measure stick on the mill and post em
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

WDH

Align the magnetic scale for the thickness of the bottom or last board you want.  Say that you want it at one inch.  Use the 4/4 magnetic scale and set the line of the "4" on the 1" mark on the permanent scale on the sawmill.  This will give you a bottom board that is exactly 1" from the bed rail.  Then raise the head to the nearest mark on the magnetic 4/4 scale where you want to make the first slab cut.  As you drop the blade to saw each board on the 4/4 mark on the magnetic scale, each board will be 1" thick.  If you take a ruler and measure between the 4/4 marks on the magnetic scale, you will find that it is 1 1/8" between the marks.  The extra 1/8" is for the kerf of the blade. 

On the Hardwood magnetic scale, there is 1 1/4" between the marks.  This yields boards that are 1 1/8" thick with 1/8" for blade kerf.  So when sawing hardwood were you want 1 1/8" boards, Set the 4/4 scale mark at 1 1/8" on the sawmill scale and each board and the last board will all be 1 1/8" thick.

Woodmizer has two scales.  One is called the standard scale and the scale has 1 1/8" between the marks for 4/4.  1" for the board and 1/8" for the kerf.  The other scale is called the hardwood scale, and it has 1 1/4" between the marks.  1 1/8" for the hardwood board plus 1/8" for kerf.

For any thickness you are sawing, say you want 8/4 and you are using the standard scale, then align the first mark on the magnetic scale for 8/4 at the 2" mark on the sawmill scale.

This may be confusing, but when you look at the permanent scale on the sawmill, that distance on the scale is the distance to the sawmill bed.  The blade will take the 1/8" kerf above that mark.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

derhntr

Thank you for that information WDH.
2006 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 with command control (I hate walking in sawdust)
US Army National Guard (RET) SFC

Bandmill Bandit

this would be last 4/4 board on the deck


 

This is second last board/last cut


 

3rd last board


 

And 4th last board, all cut at 4/4


 


This one is 2nd last board cutting 6/4


 

3rd last board cutting 5/4


 

2nd last board cutting 6/4


 

I am slightly off on this Pic for the 2nd last 8/4 cut but you can see the marks to know where I should be.


 

You can see that I did not move the scale ruler.

Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

trapper

Bandmill Bandit where did you get that laser and how did you mount it?

stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

Bandmill Bandit

Quote from: trapper on April 25, 2016, 09:56:10 PM
Bandmill Bandit where did you get that laser and how did you mount it?

It off a dewalt miter saw and I used a piece of 1/2 inch puck board that I machined to make the mount. Also has 2 LED's to light the stick in the dark. I got it at a garage sale for a couple of bucks. Think you can still get em from dewalt. Was a real easy mount job. I would NOT want to go back to the silly little steel sight! Way too much margin of error.

It is in the mill mods thread some where. 
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

barbender

     BB, that laser marker is cool!  Now, back to the board thickness- if your inch scale is truly 1 1/8" off the bed for that last cut, that should be a 1-1/8" thick board. The one before it should be 1". On my mill, the way you are adjusted, every bottom board would be 1/8" thicker than the rest that were sawn with the 1/4 scale. Disclaimer: as always, I could be missing something  ;D
Too many irons in the fire

Remle

Quote from: Scammell on April 25, 2016, 02:16:01 PM
And this is what i think my scale should look like .. AM i wrong? YES, drop the 4/5/6/8 scale so the top black mark is even with the top black mark on the Yellow scale and all should be fine.
The problem is that you are confusing the difference between dried thickness and the thickness of a green material which needs to dried/ planed to get the final dry/planed thickness. In reality we say 4 quarter is 1", but it is 1 3/16" green and when processed becomes the proverbial 1" dry/planed board. Each of the Wooodmizer quarter scales take the processing figures into account, these figures are a compromise as the specific tan-gal shrinkage rate is different for each species of wood. My book says to set the blade/band to 14 3/4" above the bed rail by actual measurement with a rule and adjust the indicator bracket mounting bolts and adjust the bracket until the indicator is aligned with the 14 3/4 " mark on the 1" scale. Once all is set you need not rest the scale when switching different thickness in different logs, those whom cut to a final dimension of 1" green are not taking in to account the shrinkage and final 2-side planning of the rough cut lumber to the finish 1" dry/planed product..

WDH

On the standard scale, the mark for the last board should be at 1" as all other boards cut between the 4/4 marks will be 1" thick.  For the hardwood scale, it is 1 1/8".
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Chuck White

But there will be times when it is necessary to move the quarters scale!

Usually at least twice when sawing each log!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

barbender

     The regular 1/4 scale is actual dimension of the sawn board. 4/4 is 1" etc.  The hardwood scale is different, as WDH pointed out. Are we all measuring our boards once in a while as they come off the mill ???
Too many irons in the fire

Remle

I believe Scammell's problem has to do with the fact that his last board ends up some thickness other than what he is cutting. If he zero's both scales and follows the Woodmizer manual, resetting his scale as it says he, will over come the problem. The other dilemma he faces is the green rough cut dimension, versus the dimension of a dry planed product. Kind of like going to any lumber yard and picking up a 2X4, only to measure it and find it's not actually 2"X4". As to the need to move the 4/5/6/8 scale, those who try to get the most BF out of a log use it ( move it ) to the blade height as a reference to take additional fetches while opening the log and saw down from the top when doing so before turning the log . This is especially helpful when sawing the side lumber in making heart centered post and beams. You could open the log with the scale in the down position by sawing at the marks on the 4/5/6/8 scale, but you lose valuable product in the process.

Bandmill Bandit

when cutting to the 1/4 scale ALL cuts should be the number of 1/4s plus an 1/8

4/4 + 1/8, 5/4+1/8 etc

On my pics my 1/4 scale ruler is out of alignment just a bit be cause I use simple set most of the time and didn't notice it was off a bit.

I will go set it correctly and take a couple more pictures. When I cut the last cut doing 4/4 the last board will be 1 1/16 +/- a 32nd same as all the other boards off the cant.   

went and checked and its not out enough to warrant another picture.

Bar bender if I saw to the inch scale the boards will be 7/8s" +/- a 32nd
If i saw 1/4 scale they will be 1" +/- a 32nd. The only difference being that the 1/4 scale allows for the saw blade kerf.

I did not realize how simple set takes that calc work out of running the mill.
It is indeed true that you set it and for get it.

   
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

barbender

BB, I think we are basically in agreement, except on the height for the last cut. If you are sawing to the 4/4 scale, and your last 4/4 cut is at 1 1/8" on the inch scale, won't your actual dimension of your sawn boards be 1", but the last one 1 1/8"?  My inch scale is set for the actual dimension of the height above the bed, i.e. if I have the pointer at 1", the last board will be actual 1".  The kerf comes out of the board before, if that makes sense. In fact, if I saw on the inch scale cutting 1" (on the inch marks) I am also sawing 7/8" thick material. If I go right on the inch marks, I end up with a 1" thick board on the bottom that doesn't match the others.  If you want a 6" cant, do you put your pointer at 6 1/8"? BTW, I'm not saying your doing it wrong, you just have yours set up different than mine. Lots of explaining back and forth over 1/8" ;D
Too many irons in the fire

Remle

" Lots of explaining back and forth over 1/8" ;D " I have one last comment about the thickness of the last board for those using the scales for cutting. The elephant in the room not mentioned, is that you need to make sure your line of sight is 90° to the face of the scale. Deviation above 90 will make the boards more than your target thickness and below will make it less. Any body care to guess where all the little +/- pieces of extra material end up ??  :-X

drobertson

I have to chime in on this one,, not one that uses the scale,, I have the accuset, and for the most part use the pattern mode, which set from the bed rails and goes up if I'm not mistaking, it just seems to me if a drop from the top down with no regard to the bed rails, then (who) knows where the last board is going to be?  unless I missed something in this thread, down drops with no reference to the bedrails means a dog board of some sort,,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Scammell

Does everyone agree with me that those two scales i posted are different? If you do agree they are different then one has to be wrong because they aren't even close to being the same.
Eric Scammell

uler3161

Quote from: Scammell on April 26, 2016, 08:11:50 PM
Does everyone agree with me that those two scales i posted are different? If you do agree they are different then one has to be wrong because they aren't even close to being the same.

Definitely different. If you read them both left to right, yours has 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 8/4. The other scale is in the reverse order.

Is there anywhere on your scale where the 4, 5, 6, and 8 all match up on the same line?
1989 LT40HD, WoodMaster 718

Dan

Bandmill Bandit

My measure sticks and Simple set are calibrated so the what is under the blade is the 1/4 scale measurement and the top of the blade is the total of cut INCLUDING kerf, so yea I think we are saying the same thing. Mill alignment is one thing and measurement  calibration is another. My simple set system along with my lasers taught me that real fast.

I use both of them to maximize lumber output.

Depending on species and desired lumber spec, I either drop a 1/2 inch under the bark on first cut or 1 inch. I do 2nd side on a 1/4 turn OR 1/2 turn depending on the log and  what I want out of it. When sawing to the 1/4 scale I always make sure to open the opposite of the first face to be on a the closest 1/4 mark that I am aiming for, and then set my simple set to drop for 1 1/8 for 4/4, 1 3/8 for 5/4 etc.

Quite often I will get a second cut slab off the 2 opposite sides to the 2 opening sides that goes to the cattle producers for wind fence which right now is selling for $425 a cord for 8 footers and that is going to go up be cause there just are none in the country any more.

And yes Remie you nailed it on the line of sight issue with the normal sight device that woodmizer uses, HOWEVER that does not apply to my mill as my mill uses the laser on the stick and it dont matter what angle you see it from (within reason) it will be the same every time you set it. Unless we start using the machinist scales at 1000ths of an inch 
 


Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Bandmill Bandit

Quote from: drobertson on April 26, 2016, 08:08:38 PM
I have to chime in on this one,, not one that uses the scale,, I have the accuset, and for the most part use the pattern mode, which set from the bed rails and goes up if I'm not mistaking, it just seems to me if a drop from the top down with no regard to the bed rails, then (who) knows where the last board is going to be?  unless I missed something in this thread, down drops with no reference to the bedrails means a dog board of some sort,,

Yes doc you are right,  BUT when you combine the ruler with the simple set you end up with accuset results BECAUSE the ruler knows where the bed is.

That is the reason the second and forth face openings must land on a 1/4 scale ruler mark when you are sawing to that 1/4 scale. When you do it this way you take your blade (in my case the green laser) to top of cant, set for the 1/4 scale of choice and cut alike a BANDIT.  :)

If you have measurement calibration set properly you end up with all your boards the same thickness INCLUDING the last one.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Bandmill Bandit

Quote from: uler3161 on April 26, 2016, 08:23:16 PM
Quote from: Scammell on April 26, 2016, 08:11:50 PM
Does everyone agree with me that those two scales i posted are different? If you do agree they are different then one has to be wrong because they aren't even close to being the same.



Definitely different. If you read them both left to right, yours has 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 8/4. The other scale is in the reverse order.

Is there anywhere on your scale where the 4, 5, 6, and 8 all match up on the same line?

Yes I agree too. BUT is not one the hardwod 1/4 scale and one the softwood 1/4 scale??
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

uler3161

Quote from: Bandmill Bandit on April 26, 2016, 08:45:40 PM
Quote from: uler3161 on April 26, 2016, 08:23:16 PM
Quote from: Scammell on April 26, 2016, 08:11:50 PM
Does everyone agree with me that those two scales i posted are different? If you do agree they are different then one has to be wrong because they aren't even close to being the same.



Definitely different. If you read them both left to right, yours has 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 8/4. The other scale is in the reverse order.

Is there anywhere on your scale where the 4, 5, 6, and 8 all match up on the same line?

Yes I agree too. BUT is not one the hardwod 1/4 scale and one the softwood 1/4 scale??

To be honest, I'm not really familiar with a difference between hardwood 1/4 and softwood 1/4 unless one of those is in reference to the normal 1" scale that comes on the mill. We've never really though of that scale as a 1/4 scale, but maybe it's just a difference in terminology.

Really, what I was getting at is that his first mark is showing 4/4 on the same line as 5/4 which is definitely wrong. My thought is that the other end of the scale may start out differently. In other words, if the scale was turned upside down (so that the numbers were upside down), I was wondering if it would match up better (i.e. the first 5/4 mark would be about 1/4 past the first 4/4 mark).
1989 LT40HD, WoodMaster 718

Dan

drobertson

Ten four BB,, knowing the equipment is the answer,, folks that use the scale, I know a few,, blow my mind,, I'm just glad I don't have too ;D  I'm not that smart,, or fast enough, both,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

WDH

Woodmizer makes TWO different magnetic scales. 

One is called the Standard Scale and using the 4/4 marks, it produces lumber that is 1" thick.  This is typically used for softwoods.

The other is called the Hardwood Scale and using the 4/4 marks, it produces lumber that is 1 1/8" thick.

1 1/8" thick is the standard for rough sawn hardwoods in the Industry.



Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

uler3161

Quote from: WDH on April 26, 2016, 09:45:03 PM
Woodmizer makes TWO different magnetic scales. 

One is called the Standard Scale and using the 4/4 marks, it produces lumber that is 1" thick.  This is typically used for softwoods.

The other is called the Hardwood Scale and using the 4/4 marks, it produces lumber that is 1 1/8" thick.

1 1/8" thick is the standard for rough sawn hardwoods in the Industry.

Interesting. Probably because I'm in softwood country is why I didn't know that. My 1" scale gives about 7/8" after saw kerf and 4/4 gives 1" after kerf.
1989 LT40HD, WoodMaster 718

Dan

WDH

Exactly.  About 1/8" of kerf in a bandsaw blade.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

4x4American

Boy, back in my day..

MikeBreaux

I looked at your scale and the 5/4 and 4/4 are lined up . That's not right. Having been in the printing industry for 25 years before I sawed I would call it a miss print. They happen get the right scale. I tried to see how cuts would be made and the scale does not seem right.
Running a Woodmizer LT 40

MikeBreaux

Line up the scale where the 4 5 6 8. Line up 1 1.25 1.5 and 2 . I think your scale was cut at the wrong starting point.
Running a Woodmizer LT 40

Bandmill Bandit

Quote from: drobertson on April 26, 2016, 09:39:25 PM
Ten four BB,, knowing the equipment is the answer,, folks that use the scale, I know a few,, blow my mind,, I'm just glad I don't have too ;D  I'm not that smart,, or fast enough, both,

:D You knowDoc I never realized how much calc work my  simple set took out of the milling process till this thread. The ruler gives me start points, the simple set does the rest. Im almost scared of what the accu set must be capable of.

Would my mill still need me?
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

4x4American

The accuset is worth every penny if you ask me.  Looking at the cheat sheets and what you simple setters go through...woof
Boy, back in my day..

Chuck White

As pointed out, you have some quarters that are lined up and that's not right.

In post #8 and in post #9 there are quarters that are on the same line, not right!

The pic in post #10 where all four of the quarters are on different lines, is the way it should be!

If you want to saw 4quarter boards, line the 4 up with the very top line and it will give you a full inch board.

The very top line on the inch scale represents the bed of the mill.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

WDH

You ignore the end of the scale.  For example, when using the 4/4 scale, you don't line up the square cut end on the 1" mark on the sawmill scale, you line up the first 4/4 line.  Or if you are cutting 6/4, you line up the first 6/4 line on 1.5" on the sawmill scale.

The way that the scale is being used in the first pic of this thread is incorrect.  There is nothing wrong with the scale, you just have to line up the black lines on the magnetic scale for the thickness that you are cutting with the correct last-board height on the sawmill scale.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Bandmill Bandit

Yes 4X4 I would love the Accuset BUT the LT40 Hydraulic will not Mod up to the Accuset without the the lift motor getting swapped out for a larger lift motor that is on the super.

When I did my mods budget did not allow me to get ALL of them done the way I would have liked and after lengthy discussions with Garry at the Woodmizer dealer, we came up with the current configuration that is my mill.

I have sawed with it this way for a few years now very happily and while have had the $$ to do the lift motor and go to Accuset over those few years it is hard to justify the cost when the resulting lumber production will not change much more. When the lift motor fails I will take a look at doing those upgrades.   

I don't use cheat sheets and don't even know what one looks like. When, as my son explained it to me, the analog system (ruler) and the digital system (simple set) are used jointly to achieve the best result the mill is capable of, you have a form of accuset where the digital system does the math and you just set and forget. One with out the other is pretty much useless.   
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Ga Mtn Man

Quote from: WDH on April 27, 2016, 07:12:05 AM
You ignore the end of the scale.  For example, when using the 4/4 scale, you don't line up the square cut end on the 1" mark on the sawmill scale, you line up the first 4/4 line.  Or if you are cutting 6/4, you line up the first 6/4 line on 1.5" on the sawmill scale.

The way that the scale is being used in the first pic of this thread is incorrect.  There is nothing wrong with the scale, you just have to line up the black lines on the magnetic scale for the thickness that you are cutting with the correct last-board height on the sawmill scale.

Danny, I think his issue is that he doesn't want to have to move the scale to cut different ¼ thicknesses.  If you look at the picture of the LT40 scale, you can see that the last board thickness would be correct for any of the thicknesses on the ¼ scale, without moving anything.  That isn't the case for the end of the scale we see in the pic of his scale.
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

barbender

     Yep, GMM- that's the way I see it too. Scammell has to adjust his scale for each thickness. It is not true to the bed, or rather, only one thickness can be.
Too many irons in the fire

Remle

Quote from: Scammell on April 26, 2016, 08:11:50 PM
Does everyone agree with me that those two scales i posted are different? If you do agree they are different then one has to be wrong because they aren't even close to being the same.
Scammell
Thank you for being patient with us, sorry for the confusion I have added to the problem. Yes, your scale is wrong !! As Mike Breaux in reply #50 and Chuck Whites reply # 54 state, the scale starts in the wrong location. A call to Woodmizer is in order to get a replacement scale. Their should be no need to reset the scale with the right scale.

WDH

The end of the scale does not matter.  It is the marks (the black lines) on the scales that matter!!  This is not as complicated as most are making it. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

uler3161

Quote from: WDH on April 27, 2016, 04:43:49 PM
The end of the scale does not matter.  It is the marks (the black lines) on the scales that matter!!  This is not as complicated as most are making it.

I think what Scammell was getting at is that he doesn't want to have to move the scale when changing from cutting 4/4 to something else (say 6/4). His scale would have to move. Not complicated, but kind of an annoyance, especially if you switch thicknesses but forget to change your scale. If 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, and 8/4 all started at the end of the scale, he could put the end on 0" and it'd be fine. That's why I was curious about what the other end of the scale looked like. Or more specifically, if there was anywhere on the scale where all 4 scales are on the same line.
1989 LT40HD, WoodMaster 718

Dan

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: uler3161 on April 27, 2016, 05:22:43 PM


I think what Scammell was getting at is that he doesn't want to have to move the scale when changing from cutting 4/4 to something else (say 6/4). His scale would have to move.

I've not read this whole thread but I would think once your scale is set, you don't need to move it no matter what you are sawing.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Chuck White

This is what I do when using the 4/4 scale!

When I make my opening cut, I make the cut and line up the 4/4 scale with the location of the blade, and make a couple of cuts.

Then I turn the log and do the same thing, using the 4/4 scale lined up with where the blade is, and make a couple of cuts.

If the customer wants 8" boards, I will line up a 4/4 scale line with the 8" mark on the yard stick and take a few cuts, if the pith becomes off center and the blade has not reached the 8" mark yet, I will flip the cant 180° and take boards off the other side until the blade is down to the 8" mark.

Once I reach the 8" mark, I turn the cant until the bark is on top, then I line up the 4/4 mark with the top line on the yardstick, that will line it up with the deck of the sawmill.

Then I just saw on the 4/4 marks until I make the last cut, 1'' above the deck!

Right or wrong, that's what I do and I get 1" lumber.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

barbender

That's what I do too, Chuck ;)
Too many irons in the fire

sandsawmill14

this is confusing smiley_dizzy headscratch it is easier for me to just use the magnetic ruler and do the math but after a couple 100mbdft you will pretty much have all the sets memorized anyway :) everything i saw has to be +1/8 (as wdh described) so for 4/4 you step the blade 1 1/4" 5/4= 1 1/2  6/4= 1 3/4 and so on and almost all cants are either 7x9 or 4x6 so thats where i start from :)  first 2 sides measure from top down 3rd and 4th sides measure from bottom up  ;) nothing to it ;D :D :D :D
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

WDH

Sorry, but you have to move the magnetic scale when you change thicknesses if you don't have setworks and you want your bottom board to be the thickness that you changed too.  Sometimes, life is not fair  :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

sandsawmill14

Quote from: WDH on April 27, 2016, 10:33:52 PM
Sorry, but you have to move the magnetic scale when you change thicknesses if you don't have setworks and you want your bottom board to be the thickness that you changed too.  Sometimes, life is not fair  :).

x2  and thats why i quit using it and just use the ruler :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Bandmill Bandit

May be I am too simple? I never move the 1/4 scale ruler since I got the simple set! IF i am not paying attention I sometime end up having to take a very thin slice but now that I have been sawing with the simple set for a couple of years that is very rare. 
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

4x4American

I looked at my quarter scale today, and they all start at the bed.


My accuset has been forgetful lately.  Alot of times it brain farts and I have to restart the mill.  Sometimes the head will just lock up, and other times if I'm in auto down it will forget where I was when I pick the head up and go to manual mode.  Then other times the head will think it's a basketball and bounce up and down for a little while until it times out  >:(


BB


I don't use cheat sheets either  :D

Boy, back in my day..

Ga Mtn Man

Quote from: 4x4American on April 27, 2016, 10:59:38 PM
I don't use cheat sheets either  :D
Sounds like maybe you better learn to. ;)
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

Bandmill Bandit

Quote from: Ga Mtn Man on April 28, 2016, 08:28:40 AM
Quote from: 4x4American on April 27, 2016, 10:59:38 PM
I don't use cheat sheets either  :D
Sounds like maybe you better learn to. ;)

I don't even know what a cheat would look like so probably wouldn't even be able to make one or use it. Lol

I guess I am wondering why I'd need one. ;D
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Magicman

I have to set my indicator to the scale to tell my old Setworks where I am so that it will end at the targeted dog board.


 
I seldom have to look at my Cheat Sheet, but it is laminated to the top left on the Setworks lid.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Matthewa

I have the same issue with my scale.  I have a homemade mill with a scale from lt35 hd. Only one of the  quarter scales can be right.  I have to move the scale when switching from 4/4 to 5/4.  I think 4/4 should align with 1 inch 5/4 with 1.25 and so on but it will not align with all 4 scale at once.   I am hoping there was a resolution to this problem.  Any feedback would be great.  Thanks

Magicman

Are you taking into account the (1/8") kerf that will be removed between boards?
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Matthewa

In reply/post 9 is a picture of the scale I bought from wood miser.  In reply 10 is the scale I think I should have.  The difference is the scale in reply 9 requires you to zero scale when switching from 4/4 to 5/4,6/4,8/4.  The scale in reply 10 is different and doesn't need to be zeroed.  If I zero my scale to 4/4 and cut a 4/4 Board's it works fine.  If I the cut another log at 5/4 without moving the scale the last board will be different thickness.  It's not a kerf thing the two scale are different for some reason.  

Magicman

Maybe I am not understanding your question.   smiley_headscratch  The scale always has to be moved for each different thickness which moves the top cut to a position so that the bottom (dog board) will be the correct thickness.

It's the same if your had a computerized setworks.  Your target is always the last board, not the first.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Brian_Rhoad

On page 2 of this thread the first picture shows the scale is positioned wrong. The scale is a 4/4 softwood scale. The distance between the 4/4 marks is 1 1/8". That will give you 1" lumber when you subtract the kerf. The first 4/4 mark should be at the 1" mark on the ruler. A 4/4 hardwood scale will be 1 1/4" between the 4/4 marks.  That would give you 1 1/8" lumber when you subtract the kerf. The first 4/4 mark on the hardwood scale should be at 1 1/8". If the 4/4 marks are lined up correctly the rest of the scale will be correct without moving it. It may be possible that the ruler is not adjusted correctly. 1" on the ruler should be 1" above the log bunk. If that is off you can't get the scale correct.

SawyerTed

Quote from: Matthewa on September 24, 2018, 08:09:56 AM
I have the same issue with my scale.  I have a homemade mill with a scale from lt35 hd. Only one of the  quarter scales can be right.  I have to move the scale when switching from 4/4 to 5/4.  I think 4/4 should align with 1 inch 5/4 with 1.25 and so on but it will not align with all 4 scale at once.   I am hoping there was a resolution to this problem.  Any feedback would be great.  Thanks
You are correct.  Only one magnetic scale can produce a dog board equal to the boards produced above it.  In other words, only one "quarter scale" can be right at a time.  So the fact is that the magnetic scale must be moved for changes among 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, and 8/4.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Ljohnsaw

OK, maybe I see it different as well.  Looking at the OPs scale in post #8, it looks defective.  On post #10 and BB's post #26, the top of the scale has all four scales starting out the same (i.e. zeroed) with the zero point of the fixed scale on the mill.  So, you can cut whatever scale you want without moving the magnetic scale.  The OPs original scale you see has them partway through the 5/4 and the 6/4 scales.  If he wanted to cut 5 or 6/4 you can see he has to move the scale up quite a bit.  The 8/4 scale might be starting correctly - I'd have to measure it to be sure.

However, this may all be a moot point.  When you get your opening cut, AND you want to take some additional boards,  you have to "zero" whatever scale you want at that point.  IF you have a square cant sitting on the bunks, then you would zero at the mill's zero point (so your last board is what you want it to be) and possibly taking off a skim cut from the top to get your pattern going.  The alternative it to zero at the last cut on top and have the "dog board" on the bottom that is essentially scrap.  The risk here is the remaining piece may be so thin that you could cut into your clamps/backstops.

Clear as mud? :-\
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Remle

Quote from: Matthewa on September 24, 2018, 08:24:29 PM
In reply/post 9 is a picture of the scale I bought from wood miser.  In reply 10 is the scale I think I should have.  The difference is the scale in reply 9 requires you to zero scale when switching from 4/4 to 5/4,6/4,8/4.  The scale in reply 10 is different and doesn’t need to be zeroed.  If I zero my scale to 4/4 and cut a 4/4 Board’s it works fine.  If I the cut another log at 5/4 without moving the scale the last board will be different thickness.  It’s not a kerf thing the two scale are different for some reason.  
Matthewa
You are correct, the scale in post ten does not have to bee zeroed any time you change logs, as the reference for all scales start at the bed or zero. The magnetic scale does not use a zero reference as a starting point for all the scales. The Woodmizer decal replacement for the 35" Quarter Scale is S11774.

Matthewa

Thanks to everyone for the input.  I just ordered the new scale from woodmiser we will see how it works in a few days. Thanks again 

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